Matthew 24 questions

[cw_theology]

I have a couple questions about Matthew 24 I am looking for anwers on. First in verse 12-13 it almost sounds like Jesus is saying one can lose their salvation, that would obviously contradict what is said elsewhere, so what does that mean? And verse 20 is really confusing what sabbath is he talking about (the Lords day?), (the Jewish sabbath) and how do we know? Further if it is the Jewish sabbath then why would that matter since it was abolished and replaced with the Lords day. Lastly in verse 34 what does, "these things" refer to?

 

[pgwolv]

Regarding Mat 24:20, Jonathan Edwards has the following to say:

We have a further argument for the perpetuity of the Sabbath, in Mat 24.20: "Pray that your flight is not in the winter, nor on the Sabbath-day." Christ is here speaking of the flight of the apostles and other Christians out of Jerusalem and Judea, just before their final destruction, which is manifest by the whole context, and especially by the 16th verse: "Then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains." But this final destruction of Jerusalem was after the dissolution of the Jewish constitution, and after the Christian dispensation was fully set up. Yet, it is plainly implied in these words of our Lord, that even then, Christians were bound to a strict observation of the Sabbath.

THE PERPETUITY AND CHANGE OF THE SABBATH BY JONATHAN EDWARDS
(1703-1758)
From The Works of President Edwards, Volume IV published 1851 1
Modernized, formatted, and annotated by William H. Gross www.onthewing.org April 2013

Regarding falling away, compare with
1 John 2:19

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Those who finally fall away were never saved.

 

[cw_theology]

Regarding Mat 24:20, Jonathan Edwards has the following to say:

THE PERPETUITY AND CHANGE OF THE SABBATH BY JONATHAN EDWARDS
(1703-1758)
From The Works of President Edwards, Volume IV published 1851 1
Modernized, formatted, and annotated by William H. Gross www.onthewing.org April 2013

Regarding falling away, compare with
1 John 2:19

Those who finally fall away were never saved.

Thank you for these responses. This is helpful.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

You can compare language like "the love of many will grow cold," to Jesus parable of the sower, particularly Mt.13:20-22. And respecting v13, who "endures to the end" if not the elect, who shall persevere?

WRT the sabbath, it is possible Jesus wants his followers to know sabbaths continue in his kingdom to come. Perhaps a more contextual reading accepts a typical OT/OC understanding of sabbathing is what the hearers hold in their minds; and Jesus mainly desires his disciples should pray to find the will of God reduces their experience of the national trial that is coming. The term "sabbath" is non-specific, "a sabbath." The generic term is applicable to the feasts of Israel more generally (not just the 7th day); so in the case the church-state of the Jews was pre-engaged in public rituals that tended to take family members far from home (to Jerusalem), with a national crisis taking place with so many citizens displaced from the rest of their family, and Jerusalem jammed with thousands of excess visitors at such a season, the desperation of those crowds was bound to create conditions even worse than a crisis arriving in "normal conditions." Even Jesus' followers in that coming moment would face some kind of trial, potentially being caught up in the nation's affairs. Even so, Jesus prior advice (vv15-16) is for his followers to escape Judea early to avoid if possible the worst.

v34, in my estimate, stands near the conclusion of the first part of Jesus' discourse. The disciples asked Jesus a "complex question," in v3, indicating their confusion about Jesus earlier statements (vv1-2) concerning the end of the Temple/Jerusalem. In their minds, this must be a prediction of the end of the world, but they are expecting Jesus to set up a permanent kingdom (capitol in the Temple) that will never be destroyed...?!? Jesus' reply divides the question. He explains vaguely those circumstances that will take place within a generation of this hour; then beginning in v36 (and into the following chapter) his answer takes his hearers further on in time to speak of their need to live life in their moving-present with an eye to proximate divine judgments and to the culminating Judgment Day. Thus, "these things" v34 specifically relate to his answer addressing the destruction of the earthly Temple.

 

[Alive in Christ]

... First in verse 12-13 it almost sounds like Jesus is saying one can lose their salvation, that would obviously contradict what is said elsewhere, so what does that mean?...

There is a lot of debate as to the meaning of Matthew 24, and most of it comes down to where you stand on the preterist/futurist debate. In any case, I don't really see how verse 13 ("the one who endures to the end will be saved") indicates a loss of salvation.

"Once saved, always saved", at least as it is commonly taught, is not biblical, and it's not the historic reformed position. The Bible is clear that some will believe for a time, and then fall away. The Bible is also clear that those who are genuinely saved are kept by the power of God. This is why it's so important to distinguish between the common teaching of OSAS and the historic reformed teaching of perseverance of the saints. Only those who persevere to the end are saved, and only those who are kept by the power of God persevere to the end.

 

[TheMantis]

In Matthew, Jesus is not saying that salvation can be lost here, He underlines the reality of having to face troubles in this life with faith and, therefore, asserts that the one who endures to the end is he who shall be saved. As for V.20, using ‘the Jewish Sabbath, ’ Jesus shows His adherence to the Jewish traditions, showing His Jewishness. The Sabbath was not replaced by the ‘Lord’s Day’ as it is commonly understood by many people today, although the early Christians also used the term; they only met on Sundays to commemorate the resurrection of Christ, and it became customary for Christians later. Quite strange, but the Lord’s Day didn’t replace the "Sabbath" in that sense; eventually. The items referred to by ‘these things’ in V.34 are the events Jesus outlined that preceded the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, some of which are interpreted in certain circles as end-time signs. These instructions in this chapter are traditional Jewish sayings due to Jesus’ background and visionary messages of future suffering and the importance of endurance.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

The Sabbath was not replaced by the ‘Lord’s Day’ as it is commonly understood by many people today, although the early Christians also used the term; they only met on Sundays to commemorate the resurrection of Christ, and it became customary for Christians later. Quite strange, but the Lord’s Day didn’t replace the "Sabbath" in that sense; eventually.

This doesn't sound very confessional to me... Westminster 21.7 seems to directly contradict this, and the 2nd London Baptist Confession says the same thing as WCF 21.7 in 2LBCF 22.7.

 

[TheMantis]

This doesn't sound very confessional to me... Westminster 21.7 seems to directly contradict this, and the 2nd London Baptist Confession says the same thing as WCF 21.7 in 2LBCF 22.7.

Technically speaking, Jesus wasn't confessional in the sense of you or me, so you are correct in that regard. Yes, I concur with the confessions; the sins in question establish The Lord’s Day as the Christian Sabbath. However, at the time Jesus was speaking, He was referring to the Jewish Sabbath, with the concept of The Lord’s Day (Sunday), which is today’s Sunday, still in the future. The Lord, of course, kept the sabbath as known in Jewish tradition, although Christians did not start meeting on Sundays until after them. Thus, though I do thoroughly endorse the confessional definition of Sunday as The Lord’s Day, from a historical perspective Jesus would not have had this specific connotation of this term in mind.

Technically speaking, Jesus wasn't confessional in the sense of you or me, so you are correct in that regard. Yes, I concur with the confessions; the topic in question establishes The Lord’s Day as the Christian Sabbath. However, at the time Jesus was speaking, He was referring to the Jewish Sabbath, with the concept of The Lord’s Day (Sunday), which is today’s Sunday, still in the future. The Lord, of course, kept the sabbath as known in Jewish tradition, although Christians did not start meeting on Sundays until after them. Thus, though I do thoroughly endorse the confessional definition of Sunday as The Lord’s Day, from a historical perspective, Jesus would not have had this specific connotation of this term in mind.

 

[CasualWestminsterEnjoyer]

Regarding Mat 24:20, Jonathan Edwards has the following to say:

THE PERPETUITY AND CHANGE OF THE SABBATH BY JONATHAN EDWARDS
(1703-1758)
From The Works of President Edwards, Volume IV published 1851 1
Modernized, formatted, and annotated by William H. Gross www.onthewing.org April 2013

Regarding falling away, compare with
1 John 2:19

Those who finally fall away were never saved.

This is one of those sermons that absolutely everyone should read.