Must I love Saddam Hussein?

[alwaysreforming]

I've heard a few evangelical sermons over the past year talking about "loving our neighbor as ourselves." Then, to draw out the point of only loving those who love us, they'll point to Saddam Hussein and/or Bin Laden and suggest that these also we must love.

Something about this teaching doesn't sit right with me. For one thing, I hate these two guys! Surely if they were to repent and ask for forgiveness I could (with God's grace) change my mind. But why should I, as a United States citizen, and a Christian, not feel enmity towards these two who are especially enemies of my country, my God, and everything good?

Am I off base here, or is this evangelical teaching wrong?uzzled:

 

[Scott Bushey]

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.


[Edited on 3-21-2004 by Scott Bushey]

 

[pastorway]

Are any of us loveable? Sin is sin, and while Saddam is a horrible sinner, so is each of us! Yes, there are degrees of sin, and yes we should understand Saddam is a really bad man......but as Scott pointed out Jesus did command that we love our enemies.

We also must rememebr that it is possible to love and hate at the same time! You can hate Saddam ( hate = literally "to count as an enemy" ) and also at the same time love him, desiring that God save him!

Paul was an enemy of the church and a murderer. Would you have loved him had you been part of the NT Church before he was converted? To obey the Word you would have had to have loved your enemy and prayed for him!

Phillip

 

[cupotea]

yeah -- but only with the love of compacency.

 

[blhowes]

I think also its good to keep in mind that loving somebody doesn't in any way mean that we condone what they've done. Nor does it mean that we think that justice shouldn't be served on these individuals. We can (by God's grace) love them, pray for their salvation, rejoice if they get saved, and still desire that they pay for their crimes (regardless of whether or not they repent and believe).
Bob

 

[alwaysreforming]

Thank you for your Godly wisdom so far.

I guess I'm a bit confused, and here's why:
David slayed goliath because he was an enemy of God's people. Should we, if we had the opportunity, not kill Bin Laden if we saw him in hiding somewhere and had the chance? Or would love require us to "want his best" and see that no harm befalls him?
I'm not so sure that Jesus' command to love would carry out to such an extreme as these two individuals while they are active enemies of our nation and all Christians. Wasn't He instead referring to, for example, the occupying Roman forces and other "in-fighting" amongst people that lived together, people whom it would be so easy to consider "enemies"?

I could be (and oftentimes am) wrong about this, but isn't there some sort of "righteous indignation" that we should have towards individuals such as these? (Obviously, we don't have the same claim to "righteous indignation" as God does, since we are not really and subjectively righteous, but in a "human" standpoint you see my point).

If someone were to rape my wife, or kidnap my kids, etc., wouldn't I be entitled to "hate" these people and want to see them dead? (This may sound harsh but I'm trying to use an extreme argument to avoid as much grey area as possible.) Certainly, in the case of repentence and other exceptional cases we should pray that God would give us a heart towards loving and forgiving these people.

It just seems to me that from many passages in the Old Testament that "having enemies" does have its place, as long as we do not do so self-righteously, and would always prefer that God save those people as He did us instead of having them remain in their sins.

If we are to love Saddam, what does that look like for us, besides praying for his salvation? In what way should we love him? (Or have I convinced you so far that we SHOULD hate him? :biggrin: )

 

[pastorway]

Very true Bob!

Phillip

 

[Scott Bushey]

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

 

[pastorway]

Maybe you are confusing vengence and hate?

Loving an enemy and doing good to him is on a personal level where a relationship exists, not a national level (like when nations are at war!). Meaning I can pray for Saddam or Osama to be saved, or to be caught, executed, and judged for his sin at the same time! Even if Saddam was saved, he should still pay for his crimes.

This happened with Manuel Noriega. A pastor I know was allowed to visit him in prison and provided me with noriega's testimony. He had come to Christ, but at the same time he himself also said that he should pay the consequence for his sins as a leader in Panama. He knew that he was fogiven, but also knew that he would sow what he had reaped.

So we love our enemies, but we do not sidestep justice or law.

Phillip

[Edited on 3-21-04 by pastorway]

 

[Me Died Blue]

I have no place to judge you here as I too frequently struggle with love and forgiveness toward those who wrong me and disgust me. But if verses like those Scott referenced ("bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you," "if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye?&quot, as well as those just preceding them in Matthew 5 (v. 39 ESV "if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also&quot - if God isn't using verses like those in direct reference to our most interpersonal enemies whom we have the most right to hate, I sure don't know how God [i:5e9581188f]would[/i:5e9581188f] word such commands if He [i:5e9581188f]did[/i:5e9581188f] try to speak about those kinds of people.

Furthermore, we're continually all being conformed to Christ by the Spirit, and we are to willingly rejoice in this process. If Christ felt nothing toward [i:5e9581188f]His[/i:5e9581188f] oppressors but that which He expressed in His prayer for them (Luke 23:34 ESV "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do&quot, what does that leave for us?

In Christ,

Chris

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by Me Died Blue]

 

[Gregg]

I love Bouncy

 

[blhowes]

I think we can all agree that its much easier to love when the object of our love returns that love and is loveable...for example, Gregg and his friend:

[b:bcffdc3d0d]Gregg wrote:[/b:bcffdc3d0d]
I love Bouncy

Loving somebody that doesn't return our love and is unloveable is a bit more of a challenge. Our human nature (at least mine, anyway) doesn't always want to love. I think God gives grace to us and allows us to love those who have wronged us or don't seem to be deserving of our love. He does this in response to our praying and asking God to help us love. Its too bad that often our human nature would prefer not to love and not allow us (at least not right away) to take that first step and pray to God about it.

Don Francisco once wrote a song with the line in it "Love is not a feeling its an act of the will". I think that's so true.

Bob

[Edited on 3-22-2004 by blhowes]

 

[Saiph]

An Example Of Godly Hatred Balanced By Love

Psalm 139:21-24


Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?

I hate them with the utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.

Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

And see if there be any hurtful way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way.

 

[mjbee]

I think I already said this once and was ignored, so I'll try it again. God has not tattooed a big red visible "E" on the foreheads of the elect! Ya just never know who's one of His. Paul was His enemy until he had that knock-down on the road to Damascus. Ya just never know!

Are there really "degrees of sin"? hmmmm. I hope not to see it that way, although God probably does. Some sins committed by believers, like burying talents in the back yard, are probably worse than others. I was raised Catholic, where mortal and venial sins got different "penances." I hope not to fall into that vat of bilge again.

In the slain and risen Lamb,
Bee

 

[raderag]

Are all sins equal.

[quote:92fb24d9ad][i:92fb24d9ad]Originally posted by mjbee[/i:92fb24d9ad]
I think I already said this once and was ignored, so I'll try it again. God has not tattooed a big red visible "E" on the foreheads of the elect! Ya just never know who's one of His. Paul was His enemy until he had that knock-down on the road to Damascus. Ya just never know!

Are there really "degrees of sin"? hmmmm. I hope not to see it that way, although God probably does. Some sins committed by believers, like burying talents in the back yard, are probably worse than others. I was raised Catholic, where mortal and venial sins got different "penances." I hope not to fall into that vat of bilge again.

In the slain and risen Lamb,
Bee [/quote:92fb24d9ad]

From the Westminster Larger Catechism.

Q. 150. Are all transgressions of the law of God equally heinous in themselves, and in the sight of God?

A. All transgressions of the law of God are not equally heinous; but some sins in themselves, and by reason of several aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.[921]


Q. 151. What are those aggravations that make some sins more heinous than others?

A. Sins receive their aggravations,

1. From the persons offending[922] if they be of riper age,[923] greater experience or grace,[924] eminent for profession,[925] gifts,[926] place,[927] office,[928] guides to others,[929] and whose example is likely to be followed by others.[930]

2. From the parties offended:[931] if immediately against God,[932] his attributes,[933] and worship;[934] against Christ, and his grace;[935] the Holy Spirit,[936] his witness,[937] and workings[938] against superiors, men of eminency,[939] and such as we stand especially related and engaged unto;[940] against any of the saints,[941] particularly weak brethren,[942] the souls of them, or any other,[943] and the common good of all or many.[944]

3. From the nature and quality of the offense:[945] if it be against the express letter of the law,[946] break many commandments, contain in it many sins:[947] if not only conceived in the heart, but breaks forth in words and actions,[948] scandalize others,[949] and admit of no reparation:[950] if against means,[951] mercies,[952] judgments,[953] light of nature,[954] conviction of conscience,[955] public or private admonition,[956] censures of the church,[957] civil punishments;[958] and our prayers, purposes, promises,[959] vows,[960] covenants,[961] and engagements to God or men:[962] if done deliberately,[963] wilfully,[964] presumptuously,[965] impudently,[966] boastingly,[967] maliciously,[968] frequently,[969] obstinately,[970] with delight,[971] continuance,[972] or relapsing after repentance.[973]

4. From circumstances of time[974] and place:[975] if on the Lord's day,[976] or other times of divine worship;[977] or immediately before[978] or after these,[979] or other helps to prevent or remedy such miscarriages;[980] if in public, or in the presence of others, who are thereby likely to be provoked or defiled[981].