Near Death Experiences

[Ryan&Amber2013]

So, from a Christian perspective, how would you explain what happens when somebody goes through a near-death experience?

This topic has been intriguing to me over the past few days, and I've been listening to personal testimonies. But what baffles me, is that people who are non-religious, or into the occult, or whatever it may be, they seem to have an experience of purpose and bliss, and feelings of peace and well-being. They see family members, or unrecognizable figures that try to explain the purpose of life, and all sorts of interesting things.

If this is actual real spiritual stuff, then what in the world? Maybe it's just biological and people are having hallucinations based off of their cultural background in life?

 

[John Nyberg]

Hey Ryan. This is an interesting thread topic. I heard somewhere that the whole “life flashing before the eyes” is a function of the brain preparing for death. I’ll have to find the article/ source. If that’s true, it would not surprise me that some people have very pleasant near death experiences. Imagine seeing, in the mind, a spouse long since deceased, or a child, or a friend. Whenever I hear those stories, it reminds me how connected our souls are to the body. The rending of the two is no doubt dramatic and terrifying, but maybe it’s also euphoric somehow. I imagine The whole event is very physical, very spiritual, and very chemical all at once. What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[Wilhelmus à Broccoli]

I think most NDEs are basically: the human brain generally knows when your number is coming up, and it does what it can to ease the process. I've never had one, but during a couple stressful periods of my life (the dissolution of a valued friendship, the last days of my grandmother, some others) I had dreams every night in which the situation was resolved. I don't think there was anything real or spiritual to it - my brain did what it could to survive. God only does wondrous things and the way He made our brains is incredible.

 

[philomath]

I think it's best to take them on a case by case basis and not let them lead us to any major conclusions. There are multiple explanations, including physical and chemical realities, but I also think there are many that are deceptions (i.e. spiritual in nature). One I remember in particular was a Hindu one where a man claimed to see different false dieties. The demonic deception that people fall into is "I saw this as I was near death, so it must be true!"

For info on the topic, I remember Dr. Jordan B. Cooper (Lutheran) having a video/podcast on the topic that I listened to a while back. I'm sure there are people in the broader Reformed camp that have covered this as well.

 

[RamistThomist]

If there are NDEs, then they likely refute hard materialism. So far, so good. Beyond that, I don't read any more into it.

 

[Ploutos]

The mind is not a purely physical entity. It has a physical entity which we call the brain, but it is not a purely physical entity. Some things, science may have no explanation for. It is known that the brain floods with certain chemicals in moments of trauma and in the lead-up to death, but I would say that's only the physically observable part of an event that's not purely physical.

Matthew Everhard interviewed someone who claimed to have had an NDE. Everhard doesn't pass judgment one way or the other, but as far as NDE stories go, it is far less theologically problematic than some of the other stories circulating around.

 

[Ed Walsh]

The mind is not a purely physical entity. It has a physical entity which we call the brain, but it is not a purely physical entity. Some things, science may have no explanation for.

Thank you for this post.
I think that modern science has pretty much determined that our consciousness is not just the sumtotal of our thoughts and activities. We do not know what consciousness is. We know we have it but nobody can point to a place in the brain where the consciousness emotes from.

 

[Ploutos]

Thank you for this post.
I think that modern science has pretty much determined that our consciousness is not just the sumtotal of our thoughts and activities. We do not know what consciousness is. We know we have it but nobody can point to a place in the brain where the consciousness emotes from.

That's because consciousness is not a physical property. Scientists can identify some brain regions and patterns correlated with consciousness, but consciousness is clearly more than a physical property, so I am quite confident that we will never pinpoint "where" it comes from using the tools of modern science.

But the Bible tells us, in Genesis 2:7.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Part of me thinks they are primarily hallucinations. I say that because though a lot of people have certain common themes, the experiences are so wildly different, often contradicting each other making it impossible to pinpoint any kind of objective truth.

 

[philomath]

Part of me thinks they are primarily hallucinations. I say that because though a lot of people have certain common themes, the experiences are so wildly different, often contradicting each other making it impossible to pinpoint any kind of objective truth.

Many could certainly be hallucinations. I would want to to be careful about how we use the word though. Many people use it to say "oh, that's only a hallucination", by which they mean there's never any other reality underlying it; it's always just an accident of our minds. I would strictly deny that usage.

Now, hallucinations may not have a ton underlying them. Sometimes it could just be that someone needs rest. However, there are some that have genuine spiritual realities to them, even if they are functionally a hallucination. I consider all the different "dreams" and "visions" people have had that have led them down idolatrous and heretical paths. Many of these could have been defined as hallucinations, yet they have real spiritual consequences. Of course figuring out which NDE has some sort of malicious demonic intent woeven into it and which is just a natural thing that happened would be difficult.

And you're right that it's impossible to pinpoint objective truth from all the NDEs people share, at least the type of objective truth that people want. The only objective thing about them is that they happen in some sense. The danger is people are trusting these as objective and not trusting The Lord.

 

[Joshua]

I almost died at least twice this week. One mile jogs and sprint intervals post squats and deadlifts.

 

[ChristWarrior]

The mind is not a purely physical entity. It has a physical entity which we call the brain, but it is not a purely physical entity. Some things, science may have no explanation for. It is known that the brain floods with certain chemicals in moments of trauma and in the lead-up to death, but I would say that's only the physically observable part of an event that's not purely physical.

Matthew Everhard interviewed someone who claimed to have had an NDE. Everhard doesn't pass judgment one way or the other, but as far as NDE stories go, it is far less theologically problematic than some of the other stories circulating around.

The Only NDE that would reject would be those whose claims are contradicting the scriptures themselves, as they describe seeing and being told things against very word of God

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Back in December when we had our fourth child, my wife had to be resuscitated because of all the blood loss. I asked her the other night if she had a near-death experience, to which she said she remembers nothing. In a comical way she said "I'm sorry to disappoint you on that one". She is such a solid believer, that I was hoping she would have something really cool to share about it.

 

[Ploutos]

I almost died at least twice this week. One mile jogs and sprint intervals post squats and deadlifts.

The other day I was scared half to death twice.

Well, almost twice.

 

[Joshua]

This math checks out.

 

[Ploutos]

Back in December when we had our fourth child, my wife had to be resuscitated because of all the blood loss. I asked her the other night if she had a near-death experience, to which she said she remembers nothing. In a comical way she said "I'm sorry to disappoint you on that one". She is such a solid believer, that I was hoping she would have something really cool to share about it.

I didn't see this post before I posted my last post, so I hope that didn't come across as cavalier toward your post. My wife and I have been blessed with generally smooth labors, all things considered, but it hasn't uniformly been that way for the friends and family around us.

I'm glad your wife is ok - that must have been terrifying for both of you.

 

[MyCrows]

Back in December when we had our fourth child, my wife had to be resuscitated because of all the blood loss. I asked her the other night if she had a near-death experience, to which she said she remembers nothing. In a comical way she said "I'm sorry to disappoint you on that one". She is such a solid believer, that I was hoping she would have something really cool to share about it.

Well, she does have something cool to share.

The Lord, in his providential care, kept her from dying during labor! That's a powerful testimony to his goodness towards his people.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I didn't see this post before I posted my last post, so I hope that didn't come across as cavalier toward your post. My wife and I have been blessed with generally smooth labors, all things considered, but it hasn't uniformly been that way for the friends and family around us.

I'm glad your wife is ok - that must have been terrifying for both of you.

Lol, it's all good brother! Trust me, I'm a light-hearted person.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Plain and simply, "people who are non-religious, or into the occult, or whatever it may be, they seem to have an experience of purpose and bliss, and feelings of peace and well-being", this is demonic deception.

Nowadays, they are giving psychedelics / entheogens to people to heal trauma. President Trump has effected an executive order reviewing the use of psychedelics to that end.

The illusion of peace and well-being in the face of death or internal suffering apart from Jesus Christ and His saving mercies is evil.

I think the issues of the gospel in these days will not primarily be in moral terms, but ontological; not in terms of sin and in need of forgiveness, but as being dead and in need of life. How else speak to modern man and woman who thinks him- and herself beyond good and evil? To those whose consciences have been seared against all moral constraint, to those who are so sophisticated that they are immune to the old ways of talking of salvation? The understanding of sin will come, but in the presence of life which saves from death.

Only Christ gives true and eternal life by His regenerating presence, when the preaching of the cross and His saving love and power are proclaimed.

 

[Ploutos]

Plain and simply, "people who are non-religious, or into the occult, or whatever it may be, they seem to have an experience of purpose and bliss, and feelings of peace and well-being", this is demonic deception.

Nowadays, they are giving psychedelics / entheogens to people to heal trauma. President Trump has effected an executive order reviewing the use of psychedelics to that end.

The illusion of peace and well-being in the face of death or internal suffering apart from Jesus Christ and His saving mercies is evil.

I think the issues of the gospel in these days will not primarily be in moral terms, but ontological; not in terms of sin and in need of forgiveness, but as being dead and in need of life. How else speak to modern man and woman who thinks him- and herself beyond good and evil? To those whose consciences have been seared against all moral constraint, to those who are so sophisticated that they are immune to the old ways of talking of salvation? The understanding of sin will come, but in the presence of life which saves from death.

Only Christ gives true and eternal life by His regenerating presence, when the preaching of the cross and His saving love and power are proclaimed.

You raise a really good point. I have recently read at least one author who asserts that in a post-Christian strategy, evangelism will have to look totally different because we can no longer appeal to a shared moral code as the legacy of Christendom. The language of sin will no longer make sense in the same way.

 

[Northern Crofter]

Plain and simply, "people who are non-religious, or into the occult, or whatever it may be, they seem to have an experience of purpose and bliss, and feelings of peace and well-being", this is demonic deception.

I agree to a large degree. Whenever I hear of these experiences of "seeing a bright light," I always think of II Corinthians 11.14: "And no marvel: for Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of light."

But I also agree that these experiences are perhaps a large dose of this:

I think most NDEs are basically: the human brain generally knows when your number is coming up, and it does what it can to ease the process.

So it would seem to me that it makes sense from a Biblical perspective that some of it is spiritual blindness/deception and some of it is a natural response. The believer may have the same experience as the unbeliever, but for the former it is true peace and comfort whereas for the latter it is like crying "'Peace, peace,' when there is no peace."

 

[jwright82]

I don't know if I had a near death experience, well the Doctors said that I should be dead, but it was close. About ten years ago I got Meningitis and Sepsis and I woke up in the hospital hallucinating that I had been kidnapped by someone.
I kept going in and out of the room, where they were literally dumping ice on me (I remember how good it felt because my fever was so high like a hundred and something) and being restrained (for their safety, I was told that I was being violent when they took me in).
But I was also on a jungle island (I weaved in and out of both places without recognizing the difference) where I was restrained with a bunch of other people and I would get out of the restraints and help free the others (who didn't exist). Then get recaptured, there's more places I was at but just memories of being stuck in familiar places and ironically TV shows I watched growing up.
Now all of that can be perfectly explained by chemical processes in my brain (my consciousness is immaterial as well but a material explanation for that can be given). But one thing was I never once thought that I was dying, I didn't know until I "woke up" and they told me. I also had no idea how many people came to see me, I was told at the time more people than they've ever seen for one person (I joked that it's because I owe them all money and they wanted to make sure I could pay up, but it still brings a tear to my eyes). So my perception of what was happening around me was near zero.
The other thing, and there's more but I'm just trimming the story, is that when I was on the island and I would get recaptured and tied up intent on escaping again a voice would talk into my ear like it was right behind me but I'm lying on the ground. I twist and turn to see the face but no matter what direction I rolled the same voice always right behind my ear.
It was male, I'm completely and absolutely straight, and the most seductive (not in a sexual way but like trying to convince me to do something way) voice I've ever heard and at the same time the most terrifying voice I've ever heard in my life. If I heard it walking down the street I would instantly freeze and not know what to do.
It just kept saying the same thing "why are you fighting to live? Just give up and die. There's no point to keep fighting". In the context I was confused because as far as I knew I was alive for the time being on an island (or some room somewhere) but it always said the same thing over and over again. Now the part that haunts me (besides the voice) is that I didn't know I was dying and I was clearly not aware of what was going on but somehow it knew that I was dying.
The real miracle is that with the good grace of God I survived. When they had to remove the tube in my throat for breathing, still have a scar, they turned the machine off and I stopped breathing (my poor momma was there for all of this, I'm her oldest), so they turned it back on and told my momma they weren't supposed to but they'd give it one more week but then let nature take it's course.
Another week went by and the same thing I wouldn't breathe on my own. They told my tearful momma that they'd wait one more week but then they would get into trouble if they kept it on. My momma said she never prayed that much before. The last week came and they turned it off and I started breathing on my own. She was completely prepared to say goodbye at that moment. But our God is good and merciful.
I don't say this to draw attention to myself, I hate doing that, but no one seemed to have an experience to tell so I thought "why not?"
I have permanent nerve damage (nerve pain in my fingers and feet) but I am grateful to our Lord for sparing me from what I deserve.
The other miracle that they can't explain is that I should have permanent brain damage but have none to speak of. I told them that "I wasn't right before so it's not a new condition for me" but I know it's because of our Lord and savior that I'm doing fine all these years later, and still able to bother people with my philosophizing.
One more miracle is that they said I physically recuperated quicker than anyone they've seen. That's just being a stubborn Irish man but it's all from our Lord. I don't remember much now a days, sorry but the important stuff I remember for this thread.
A lot of people in my family asked me about NDE stuff after I got better but I wasn't much help to them. Honestly I never spoke about the demon and the voice for years after it happened because it still freak's me out (and I love horror movies). But that's probably all I can contribute, sad to say. But I'm open to any questions either here or in PM.
Praise be to our Father and our Lord for His infinite blessings even to a wretched sinner like me amen.
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Oh one more thing they actually turned the machine off four times and the fourth time I started breathing, my poor momma. No one besides my late meemaw, who sadly passed this year, was as much as a Godly Christian prayer warrior as them. Although the family didn't tell meemaw for obvious reasons, I was her favorite.

 

[Ploutos]

Jamie, thank you for sharing that! What a story, and thanks be to God for your recovery.

You might enjoy listening to the video I linked above - it's very different from your story but has the similar element of someone being seriously ill in a hospital setting.

 

[jwright82]

Jamie, thank you for sharing that! What a story, and thanks be to God for your recovery.

You might enjoy listening to the video I linked above - it's very different from your story but has the similar element of someone being seriously ill in a hospital setting.

Thanks. I listen to it tonight. I don't talk about much but this seemed like a good time to share. In the end our God is good.

 

[ChristWarrior]

I didn't see this post before I posted my last post, so I hope that didn't come across as cavalier toward your post. My wife and I have been blessed with generally smooth labors, all things considered, but it hasn't uniformly been that way for the friends and family around us.

I'm glad your wife is ok - that must have been terrifying for both of you.

the Lord told Paul not to preach and teach to us on what he saw and heard, and yet those claiming to have them run straight to publishing a book, getting on tv, or having a movie made