new harry potter book

[Reed]

Not to be "Puritanical," but why would any one want to read something that celebrates what God abhors?

I find the fascination with the occult similar to the progression our culture made from humorous sexual innuendo to explicit, overt sexuality and celebration of fornication in the span of our life time -- remember when we were kids the movie Grease was pretty risque? Compare that to what's on at 7:00 PM on any tv show and Grease looks like Little House on the Prairie! I think this is the way interest in the occult is going. Our culture is titillated with hairy potter now and in twenty years human sacrifices will be the in thing...

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Reed
Not to be "Puritanical," but why would any one want to read something that celebrates what God abhors?

I find the fascination with the occult similar to the progression our culture made from humorous sexual innuendo to explicit, overt sexuality and celebration of fornication in the span of our life time -- remember when we were kids the movie Grease was pretty risque? Compare that to what's on at 7:00 PM on any tv show and Grease looks like Little House on the Prairie! I think this is the way interest in the occult is going. Our culture is titillated with hairy potter now and in twenty years human sacrifices will be the in thing...

For apologetic reasons. I answered this elsewhere on the thread.

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by maxdetail
Craig!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You had better be joking brother!
If you are drinking Miller when Bell's Kalamazoo Stout is right there in your back yard then you have a COMPLETE lack of discernment and your argument falls flatter than a Miller High Life left open for 3 days in the hot sun. Come on Craig, life is too short to drink bad, cheap beer.

Not to get off-subject, but is Keyston and Old Milwaulkee good, quality beers?

 

[default]

Originally posted by Reed
Not to be "Puritanical," but why would any one want to read something that celebrates what God abhors?

I find the fascination with the occult similar to the progression our culture made from humorous sexual innuendo to explicit, overt sexuality and celebration of fornication in the span of our life time -- remember when we were kids the movie Grease was pretty risque? Compare that to what's on at 7:00 PM on any tv show and Grease looks like Little House on the Prairie! I think this is the way interest in the occult is going. Our culture is titillated with hairy potter now and in twenty years human sacrifices will be the in thing...

IT'S CALLED DESENSITIZATION! (not meaning to overuse the term!) But isn't that how Satan gets his hooks into us?

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Loriann

Originally posted by Reed
Not to be "Puritanical," but why would any one want to read something that celebrates what God abhors?

I find the fascination with the occult similar to the progression our culture made from humorous sexual innuendo to explicit, overt sexuality and celebration of fornication in the span of our life time -- remember when we were kids the movie Grease was pretty risque? Compare that to what's on at 7:00 PM on any tv show and Grease looks like Little House on the Prairie! I think this is the way interest in the occult is going. Our culture is titillated with hairy potter now and in twenty years human sacrifices will be the in thing...

IT'S CALLED DESENSITIZATION! (not meaning to overuse the term!) But isn't that how Satan gets his hooks into us?

Whatever you want to criticize HP for, sexuality is not one of them. Let's make sure we get our criticisms right. It makes our arguments that much stronger.

BTW, can you show me the chapters and page numbers where the human sacrifices take place in Harry Potter?

[Edited on 7--20-05 by Draught Horse]

 

[kevin.carroll]

Originally posted by LawrenceU

One could argue that the PB is a waste of precious time...yet here we are...

Sometimes it is, especially in some threads. But, you are comparing two distinctly different usages of time. This board is set up discuss the Word of God and its application in the life of the Christian. HP books are anything but that.

Craig, your logic is miscongruant. Because we are human and like good stories? Come now. Yes, we are human; but, that is actually liability. We will if not controlled by the Spirit of Christ inevitably choose poorly. Liking good stories is not a reason to read one that contains such themes as are offensive to God. There are multitudes of 'good stories', well written, with fabulous plots that of no use in the life of a Christian.

Oh, I agree. It's just a tough sell to my wife sometimes, who views this as "wasting time."

 

[Reed]

I'm just trying to make a correlation between one form of sin and another form of sin -- my correlation was explicite sexual content on primetime TV started as subtle innuendo and has progressed to blatant in your face examples and demonstation.

In the same way the increase in occultism will be tied to the introduction and acceptance of HP until eventually witchcraft is a normal and celebrated part of our culture.

There are already wicken chaplains in our military!

Reed

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Reed
I'm just trying to make a correlation between one form of sin and another form of sin -- my correlation was explicite sexual content on primetime TV started as subtle innuendo and has progressed to blatant in your face examples and demonstation.

In the same way the increase in occultism will be tied to the introduction and acceptance of HP until eventually witchcraft is a normal and celebrated part of our culture.

There are already wicken chaplains in our military!

Reed

You are playing "connect the dots" and are stretching your case too far. Furthermore, correlation does not necessarily = causation.

I don't get it. Wicked chaplains,perhaps. But what does taht have to do with the thread?

 

[default]

You are playing "connect the dots" and are stretching your case too far. Furthermore, correlation does not necessarily = causation.

I don't get it. Wicked chaplains,perhaps. But what does that have to do with the thread?

I disagree, it's not mere "connecting the dots" but rather stating facts. As the TV, movies, music all have gone from the hint of sexual conduct to outright sexual content so to has satan begun to infiltrate, move beyond the senses into the spiritual realm to captivate the audience with his tactics. The tv, radio, movies are SCREAMING with occult activities, as do the series of this thread. They have brought it into shows like law and order more than once, where the villian was of some cult or another. But what's worse is it's moved further, to where the entire series is about such, Medium, Lost just to name a couple,. There's a new one coming out this season though I forget it's name. So, to bring out how the sexual content of the media has gone from "short shorts" to outright nudity is not far fetched in the argument that the agenda behind the puker series is to introduce, or further bring home the acceptance of the occult activities.

Psalm 19 speaks of the sin of presumption. To presume it ok to view, read, hear, listen to, speak, meditate or any other form things that go against scripture and truth is a sin. When we allow these things into our mind we are conforming to the world rather than transforming by the renewing of our mind. Rom 12. See not, taste not, speak not that which is unbecoming to Christ.

In all things that we do ought to give God the Glory. So, if you can explain how reading such garbage is glorifying God than perhaps I may change my mind. But since I am confident that you can not do so, I stand firm on the foundation of Christ.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Pharisees are not people to immitate.

 

[default]

Paul, I agree, and I noticed that wth Moby dick. My son enjoys Huck Finn, and I've taken a stand on that as well. If your child is into this series, and you read it in order to show them where it goes against God's word, that's one thing, but to just read it and soak in it's trash is dangerous ground and also flirting with the devil. So this slippery slope only stands if someone holds to one and against another!

When David saw bashiba he didn't just see her and take her, no, more like he kept looking, first was a "peek" then it turned to lust, which eventually turned to adultury and murder. I'm sure it was not David's intention to ever murder the guy when he first looked upon bashiba, but one thing leads to another.

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Loriann

You are playing "connect the dots" and are stretching your case too far. Furthermore, correlation does not necessarily = causation.

I don't get it. Wicked chaplains,perhaps. But what does that have to do with the thread?

I disagree, it's not mere "connecting the dots" but rather stating facts. As the TV, movies, music all have gone from the hint of sexual conduct to outright sexual content so to has satan begun to infiltrate, move beyond the senses into the spiritual realm to captivate the audience with his tactics. The tv, radio, movies are SCREAMING with occult activities, as do the series of this thread. They have brought it into shows like law and order more than once, where the villian was of some cult or another. But what's worse is it's moved further, to where the entire series is about such, Medium, Lost just to name a couple,. There's a new one coming out this season though I forget it's name. So, to bring out how the sexual content of the media has gone from "short shorts" to outright nudity is not far fetched in the argument that the agenda behind the puker series is to introduce, or further bring home the acceptance of the occult activities.

Psalm 19 speaks of the sin of presumption. To presume it ok to view, read, hear, listen to, speak, meditate or any other form things that go against scripture and truth is a sin. When we allow these things into our mind we are conforming to the world rather than transforming by the renewing of our mind. Rom 12. See not, taste not, speak not that which is unbecoming to Christ.

In all things that we do ought to give God the Glory. So, if you can explain how reading such garbage is glorifying God than perhaps I may change my mind. But since I am confident that you can not do so, I stand firm on the foundation of Christ.

That's nice, but you end up proving too much. How many hear saw Revenge of the Sith? End of debate. Revenge of the Sith is about as dark as Harry Potter (remember many of you Potter critics, you don't exactly *know* how dark Harry Potter is) and has MUCH, MUCH more violence, and much worse acting and story line.

Why do you keep bringing up the sexual content part? Harry Potter has none in it, at least, all the books until now and I haven't finished this one.

You say that when we "wallow" in it we are being decieved, or whatever. You are probably correct, but for your case to stand you woudl have to find which comments from me suggesting that. There are none and there are quite a few comments suggesting that I read it for apologetic reasons.

 

[default]

Um, Jake, FYI, I've also taken alot of flack from the folks here for my stand AGAINST the Star Wars movies! IT too has a lot of cultic theologies taught in it "the force". (And please don't go into "the force of good and evil").

And I never said that Harry puker has any sexual content, I was saying it's cult! Satanic! WITCHCRAFT! I was merely using the correlation of how the media has gone from simple things like kissing to full fledged nudity and sexual acts to compare to what's going on in the cultish world, in that they are robbing the minds of all who let it soak into their brains! And yes, just casual reading it DOES get into your mind!

So, my dear Jake, My case does stand!

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Loriann
Um, Jake, FYI, I've also taken alot of flack from the folks here for my stand AGAINST the Star Wars movies! IT too has a lot of cultic theologies taught in it "the force". (And please don't go into "the force of good and evil").

And I never said that Harry puker has any sexual content, I was saying it's cult! Satanic! WITCHCRAFT! I was merely using the correlation of how the media has gone from simple things like kissing to full fledged nudity and sexual acts to compare to what's going on in the cultish world, in that they are robbing the minds of all who let it soak into their brains! And yes, just casual reading it DOES get into your mind!

So, my dear Jake, My case does stand!

Perhaps. Point granted that you did take a stand against Star Wars. I have no doubt that casual reading could get into your mind, except i am not reading this casually. I have made it clear that whenever I read any type of literature, apologetics is in the back of my mind. That being the case, my mind is quite active in what I read.

Anyway, as bad as witchcraft is, Harry Potter is not a perfect analogy to modern day practices of witchcraft.

Also, is Lord of the Rings wrong? I mean, it doesnt mention Jesus anywhere and some characters do appear to have magical powers.

 

[default]

Again, I do not like Lord of the Rings and yes, I've seen some of the movie and also read some of the book (BECAUSE I have a 15 yr old who is actively interested!) It too has witchcraft in it! I guess I don't like this even more so than the Puker series because it has been so readily accepted by the vast majority of the religous realm.

Like arminiasm, with this many people accept it as truth because it's what they want to believe, not because Scripture proves it. so too, the Lord of the Rings has a lot of cultish activities in it yet people are blinded to it.

I am NOT against entertainment, but I am against filling the mind will vanity!

 

[Larry Hughes]

For apologetic reasons

and to capture every thought to Christ. Unbelieving thoughts ignored and unaddressed tend to linger and fester until defeated!

Jacob,

Exactly. Blind ignorance is why the church was side swiped by evolution post-darwin and much scientific thought. It has taken many many decades for the church to catch up. And too many so called "calvinist" tend to forget that before regeneration that a man is totally depraved. ANYTHING will and can become a door way to further denial of the truth (that is the nature of total depravity) - it doesn't have to be Harry Potter.

Jesus told the Pharisees, "You read the Scriptures and think that by them you have eternal life, but it are these that continually bear witness of me." Fallen man even uses the word of God to proffer his supression of God and Christ. Not to mention God's creation for the same end.

Gabe, BTW, I agree!

L

 

[kevin.carroll]

Originally posted by Loriann
Again, I do not like Lord of the Rings and yes, I've seen some of the movie and also read some of the book (BECAUSE I have a 15 yr old who is actively interested!) It too has witchcraft in it! I guess I don't like this even more so than the Puker series because it has been so readily accepted by the vast majority of the religous realm.

Like arminiasm, with this many people accept it as truth because it's what they want to believe, not because Scripture proves it. so too, the Lord of the Rings has a lot of cultish activities in it yet people are blinded to it.

I am NOT against entertainment, but I am against filling the mind will vanity!

Hey...I was checking my concordance...and I found witchcraft in 1 Samuel... Maybe I should cut it out and burn it a la Jefferson.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

The Potter books draw far more from "regular" paganism--Greek, Roman, and Celtic mythology--than from real witchcraft-related folklore. I wouldn't feel comfortable writing a book like Harry Potter, but witchcraft, as it is depicted in the books, is not similar to Wicca or other contemporary witchcraft practices. It is quite vague in nature and can only be performed by those who are born with the talent. It is, essentially, a natural force and is not spiritual in nature. It relates more to medieval superstitions. I'm certainly not suggesting they are harmless, but implying that they are always a gateway for Satanism is like implying that alcohol is always a gateway to drunkenness.

With few exceptions, the books do not describe rituals or processes of magic. They are far more about characters and their actions in a world where the rules of nature as they are in our world can be violated. A person is certainly not going to learn how to do real-world Wiccan spells by reading the books.

Reading the books, I think, comes down to a matter of individual conscience. I can see how the books could be a problem for unbelievers, but there could be a legitimate apologetic purpose for (some) believers to read them, and, as Larry says, to take the ideas captive and measure them against the Word of God. And, as Craig French has said, they are good stories and can (In my humble opinion) perhaps help in learning to appreciate more fully our much better Christian narrative.

Originally posted by Paul manata

Also, one could say this about almost any non-Christian piece of literature. Moby Dick, for example, is a story of *revenge and hate.* Revenge and hate is anti-Christian, we have redemption and love.

I was thinking of Moby Dick myself, which depicts practices that are actually much more similar to real-world witchcraft (from what little I know of it). A very disturbing book on many levels, but not without literary merit. I find it particularly interesting to read it for the purpose of having an imaginary dialogue with Melville about the underlying ideology. (Yes, that probably sounds odd...) If I'm not mistaken, it's one of R.C. Sproul's favorite books.

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Draught Horse
Consider that most fantasy is written to pubescent adoloscents who want nothing more than to read stories of violence and sex. Harry Potter has neither. Honestly, if my child were having trouble with animal sacrifices, etc. I would probably caution against reading it.

consider this old thread
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11778#pid169888

Ex Nihilo had written:

Honestly, the biggest thing we can draw from the Harry Potter phenomenon (because, as you pointed out by mentioning your boredom, I don't think it can be fully explained by the books themselves) is how desperate people are for a good/evil hero narrative. We have one that's much better.

Then I rejoined:

And we take that Universal need for a good/evil fairy tale and immediately move to apologetics/evangelism. We say, "You like this narrative don't you? It touches something inside you that transcends you but you don't know what it is, right? In some way or another you like fairy tales. You might not call them that, but the same point is still there. Can I tell you about the Fairy Tale that Came True?" And then, having memorized Greg Bahnsen's Sermon: Greg Bahnsen's Sermon: The Fairy Tale that Came True, I open the discussion.[

I thought that reposting this would get my point across. Evie said it better than anything I could have said. Yes, Moby Dick is one of RC's favorite books. We can draw two deductions from this:
1) Sproul has abandoned the faith.

OR

2) Secular literature can be used for good purposes.

3)Sproul has not abandoned the faith,
Therefore,
-------------------------------------------------
4)Secular literature can be used for good purposes.
5)Harry Potter is secular literature;
6)therefore, Harry Potter can be used for good purposes.

my line of reasoning was
Disjunctive syllogism (1 OR 2)
Deny 2,
Affirm 1.
Modus Ponens (4,5,6)

[Edited on 7--20-05 by Draught Horse]

 

[Craig]

While I won't waste time defending my love of Miller High Life, I do think the parallel I made stands.

This could become a huge tangent, so I'll mention it in passing:
I think story-making many times is our way of understanding the Fall and our relation to the universe and our responsibilities when it comes to ethics. Themes like these exist in the Potter series. Far from vanity, these are crucial issues and actually affirm certain standards of right and wrong. The magic is a means, not an ends...and isn't central to the storyline.

Seeing, as I do at least, that story telling/making is part of our way of understanding human nature, the concern isn't so much "is there magic in the story", but what is its purpose? When asking these, the irrelevant points about the stories being vanity falls flat. Far more vain are books relating to design (whether fashion, home improvements, etc) than a series like HP. Who immerses themselves in the latest PC magazines, or Time, or People? This is truly vanity. Harry Potter delves into dark, but necessary themes.

Many may disagree with my premise about the origin of story telling, but it makes sense. How do we come to understanding God and the world around us? Many times through anthropomorphism and...in short, these are typically untrue at face value yet convey the truth nonetheless, and typically the truth is conveyed in a more penetrating, and dare I say more truthfull way? Stories are how we come to grips with experience. What deals more honestly with human experience? A story involving magic? How about a dancing bear? Either of these can be vain, but given a context there may be something valuable in their use.

Lets go a step further...who here has ever sat down with an older person to hear a string of stories you're just about sure never really happened? Was your sitting there utter vanity? Did you learn anything about the person while listening? Do you feel you wasted your time?

 

[RamistThomist]

Originally posted by Craig
While I won't waste time defending my love of Miller High Life, I do think the parallel I made stands.

This could become a huge tangent, so I'll mention it in passing:
I think story-making many times is our way of understanding the Fall and our relation to the universe and our responsibilities when it comes to ethics. Themes like these exist in the Potter series. Far from vanity, these are crucial issues and actually affirm certain standards of right and wrong. The magic is a means, not an ends...and isn't central to the storyline.

Seeing, as I do at least, that story telling/making is part of our way of understanding human nature, the concern isn't so much "is there magic in the story", but what is its purpose? When asking these, the irrelevant points about the stories being vanity falls flat. Far more vain are books relating to design (whether fashion, home improvements, etc) than a series like HP. Who immerses themselves in the latest PC magazines, or Time, or People? This is truly vanity. Harry Potter delves into dark, but necessary themes.

Many may disagree with my premise about the origin of story telling, but it makes sense. How do we come to understanding God and the world around us? Many times through anthropomorphism and...in short, these are typically untrue at face value yet convey the truth nonetheless, and typically the truth is conveyed in a more penetrating, and dare I say more truthfull way? Stories are how we come to grips with experience. What deals more honestly with human experience? A story involving magic? How about a dancing bear? Either of these can be vain, but given a context there may be something valuable in their use.

Lets go a step further...who here has ever sat down with an older person to hear a string of stories you're just about sure never really happened? Was your sitting there utter vanity? Did you learn anything about the person while listening? Do you feel you wasted your time?

Check out this awesome article by Brian Godawa showing how we can use themes like Craig just mentioned for delving into the real issues.

PS: This is not to say that Godawa would necessarily agree with HP, but I think his article is most helpful.

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Originally posted by Craig
While I won't waste time defending my love of Miller High Life, I do think the parallel I made stands.

This could become a huge tangent, so I'll mention it in passing:
I think story-making many times is our way of understanding the Fall and our relation to the universe and our responsibilities when it comes to ethics. Themes like these exist in the Potter series. Far from vanity, these are crucial issues and actually affirm certain standards of right and wrong. The magic is a means, not an ends...and isn't central to the storyline.

Very well stated. The Potter books are not about magic; they contain magic as part of the setting. They are about characters.

And excellent point about how literature helps us understand the Fall. (I think this is a central theme of Hamlet, for instance.) And at the same time, an understanding of the Fall helps us understand literature.

Whatever you make of the appropriateness of such stories, the popularity of fantasy literature is (in addition to an illustration of our need for narrative) evidence of our longing for a world that is something more, something better than this one now is--what this one ought to have been.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Ex Nihilo]

 

[LawrenceU]

Pharisees are not people to immitate.

Advocation of biblical discernment in lifestyle is not Phariseeism.

Loriann, I applaud your stance.

Fellows, drawing a connection between HP books and Moby Dick is ludicrous. The two do not even compare to one another. And, despite the statment of Evie, I know several wiccans who absolutely love the HP books for several reasons. Among them are: they make those who pracitce magick more palatable to the modern culture (Loriann's argument about wiccan chaplains falls here.) they although not perfectly do expose their world view, and (their words here) 'function as a great door into the reality of the unseen world'.

Please here me, the nature of my ministry has put me in contact with many people over the year who for a variety of reason have been damaged by occultic activities. Except of three people that I can recall, none of them began their involvement with a decided step. Deception opened the door. Funny thing about deception; you don't recognise it until it is too late.

 

[fredtgreco]

Originally posted by Draught Horse
4)Secular literature can be used for good purposes.
5)Harry Potter is secular literature;
6)therefore, Harry Potter can be used for good purposes.

my line of reasoning was
Disjunctive syllogism (1 OR 2)
Deny 2,
Affirm 1.
Modus Ponens (4,5,6)

[Edited on 7--20-05 by Draught Horse]

Sorry Jacob,

This is severely flawed reasoning. It makes all secular literature equal - which it is not.

 

[fredtgreco]

How about if it is just severly rotten writing?

After reading some of this, I wanted to vomit.

 

[Craig]

Originally posted by fredtgreco
How about if it is just severly rotten writing?

After reading some of this, I wanted to vomit.

I don't think it's severely rotten writing...I wouldn't put it in the category of literature, but I wouldn't call it severely rotten.

 

[RamistThomist]

Pastor Lawrence: I understand your words of caution. I can assure you that I am not into Wicca. Working as a Dorm Adviser and Resident Assistant to college students, I too, have delt with people who have destroyed their lives on wicca. I am not unaware of the dangers.

Honestly, yall are acting like I am sacrificing goats right now and drinking their blood. If you really want to get down to it, Star Wars has the potential to be ten times more dangerous. But no, nobody (or few, anyway) take offense at Star Wars just because (fill in blank). HOnestly, there is even a religion called "jediism". Only a few people got their feathers ruffled when Revenge of the Sith came out. Why the double standard? Force or magic? Half a dozen with one or six with the other?

 

[Craig]

Originally posted by LawrenceU

Pharisees are not people to immitate.

Advocation of biblical discernment in lifestyle is not Phariseeism.

Loriann, I applaud your stance.

Fellows, drawing a connection between HP books and Moby Dick is ludicrous. The two do not even compare to one another. And, despite the statment of Evie, I know several wiccans who absolutely love the HP books for several reasons. Among them are: they make those who pracitce magick more palatable to the modern culture (Loriann's argument about wiccan chaplains falls here.) they although not perfectly do expose their world view, and (their words here) 'function as a great door into the reality of the unseen world'.

Please here me, the nature of my ministry has put me in contact with many people over the year who for a variety of reason have been damaged by occultic activities. Except of three people that I can recall, none of them began their involvement with a decided step. Deception opened the door. Funny thing about deception; you don't recognise it until it is too late.

I appreciate keeping temptation at bay, and being discerning...I just don't think that these books are "gateway" books to the occult.

It's like saying old school Carman rap songs were gateways to smacking promiscuous women while drinking malt liquor from a paper bag because of the lifestyle associated with rap music.

***just to be clear: I'm not a Carman fan...anymore.

[Edited on 7-21-2005 by Craig]

 

[Ex Nihilo]

Originally posted by LawrenceU
Fellows, drawing a connection between HP books and Moby Dick is ludicrous. The two do not even compare to one another.

In one sense, no, they do not. HP mixes some vaguely Christian values with overtly pagan mythology. Moby Dick is explicitly and rather violentlly anti-Christian and particularly anti-Calvinist. (Although it does contain descriptions of pagan worship and practices and a very disturbing scene involving the collection of all the crew members' blood onto a harpoon, which is then baptized in the name of the devil.)

And, despite the statment of Evie, I know several wiccans who absolutely love the HP books for several reasons. Among them are: they make those who pracitce magick more palatable to the modern culture

And this is something to be careful of. If one does read the books for whatever reason, one should make sure that it doesn't cause any softened stance whatsoever on the despicable practice of witchcraft. And I would certainly advise that anyone who begins to feel anything less than outright condemnation of real-world witchcraft should stop reading the books. I'm not really attempting to defend the books for everyone; I'm simply taking the position that this is a matter of individual conscience. I would not attempt to persuade someone who had convictions against it to read the books.

For people who do choose to read something like HP, we have to be very careful to draw lines somewhere. I'm not open to reading just anything. I was once reading a fantasy novel that had descriptions of magical practices that included cutting oneself and using this process of self-wounding to perform magic. I felt extremely uncomfortable with this and had to stop reading the book--it was waaay too much like real-world witchcraft. I say this to explain that I understand why some strongly object to HP, but I do feel it can be read without tempting a person to engage in Wicca. (After all, as I've said before, the books contain little description of magical processes.) People have to be willing to read with constant discernment and to put the book down if necessary. And for some, this might mean never picking the book up to begin with.

 

[RamistThomist]

Last post on HP: I am going to repost this from earlier in the thread.

Originally posted by Draught Horse
Consider that most fantasy is written to pubescent adoloscents who want nothing more than to read stories of violence and sex. Harry Potter has neither. Honestly, if my child were having trouble with animal sacrifices, etc. I would probably caution against reading it.

consider this old thread
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11778#pid169888

Ex Nihilo had written:

Honestly, the biggest thing we can draw from the Harry Potter phenomenon (because, as you pointed out by mentioning your boredom, I don't think it can be fully explained by the books themselves) is how desperate people are for a good/evil hero narrative. We have one that's much better.

Then I rejoined:

And we take that Universal need for a good/evil fairy tale and immediately move to apologetics/evangelism. We say, "You like this narrative don't you? It touches something inside you that transcends you but you don't know what it is, right? In some way or another you like fairy tales. You might not call them that, but the same point is still there. Can I tell you about the Fairy Tale that Came True?" And then, having memorized Greg Bahnsen's Sermon: Greg Bahnsen's Sermon: The Fairy Tale that Came True, I open the discussion.[

Yeah, even using apologetics I can get sucked in by the magic of Harry Potter (no pun intended). Sure, I understand. I don't lose any sleep over it. I mean, if my presuppositonal, transcendental worldview can't handle Harry Potter, we ought to throw in the towel now. If my Van Tillian reasoning can't then construct an apologetic scenario and immediately move into evangelism, I mean, do we just talk apologetics in the safe confines of Puritanboard or do we go to the streets with it? When I read secular literature I am always thinking about apologetics and evangelism.