Non-Argumentative [sic Argumentative] Head Covering Poll

[Kim G]

This poll is more a question of practice than of interpretation of I Cor 11. I guess you could say that I'm just curious.

Only answer the sections that apply to you. Feel free to elaborate on your answers, but let's please not turn this into a long-winded "debate" (i.e., argument).

P.S. Brad made a good point below. I am talking about a PHYSICAL COVERING like a hat or veil--not hair or husband or whatever else you might consider a "head covering."

 

[Bygracealone]

Where's the poll?

 

[Kim G]

Sorry, it took me a little while to get it up.

 

[Mushroom]

My wife always wears the covering called for in scripture... her hair. But that wasn't an option on the poll.

 

[Kim G]

Thanks, Brad. I added to my first post to clarify a bit! Now can you answer the poll in good conscience?

Just to be clear, I didn't have "hair" as an option because I said the poll was a "question of practice" rather than a question "of interpretation."

P.S. Brad made a good point below. I am talking about a PHYSICAL COVERING like a hat or veil--not hair or husband or whatever else you might consider a "head covering."

 

[Bygracealone]

My wife always wears the covering called for in scripture... her hair. But that wasn't an option on the poll.

Sorry Kim, I know you didn't want to turn this into a debate thread, but it's probably inevitable...

If hair is the covering, then how does the man take off his hair for worship? He's not supposed to pray with his head covered, so how does he take his hair off during prayer? Is he to wear a wig that he can put on and take off?

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

You shave your head like me ...

 

[KMK]

You shave your head like me ...

Some of us are getting to the point where wew don't have to shave our heads any longer!

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

You shave your head like me ...

Some of us are getting to the point where wew don't have to shave our heads any longer!

That is why I do cut it to the scalp. My hair only takes up about 1/2 of the top of my head. I am conceding defeat.

 

[Mushroom]

My wife always wears the covering called for in scripture... her hair. But that wasn't an option on the poll.

Sorry Kim, I know you didn't want to turn this into a debate thread, but it's probably inevitable...

If hair is the covering, then how does the man take off his hair for worship? He's not supposed to pray with his head covered, so how does he take his hair off during prayer? Is he to wear a wig that he can put on and take off?

1Co 11:4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

The scripture, as it plainly points out later, is referring to long hair, which is why here it states that a woman without long hair is as one with her head shaven. A man needs not "take his hair off" if he doesn't have long hair in the first place, which is why having long hair is a shame to him.

 

[ChristopherPaul]

I believe the head covering mandate for women is still required. I do not agree with the culture argument nor the natural hair argument. However my wife does not cover in public worship.

The covering mandate is still required; however, only during exceptional circumstances when those women who are moved by the Spirit, address the congregation with prayer or prophecy. Since my wife does not address the congregation and thus remains silent, she need not cover. Since the Apostolic era gifts have ceased, there would not be a circumstance where any women will be addressing the congregation and thus need to cover their head to show she is still honoring her submissive role.

 

[Kim G]

The covering mandate is still required; however, only during exceptional circumstances when those women who are moved by the Spirit, address the congregation with prayer or prophecy. Since my wife does not address the congregation and thus remains silent, she need not cover.

I'm sorry. I'm disobeying the rules of my own thread. I've just never heard this argument before, especially in light of I Cor. 14, just a couple chapters later, which mandates submission and silence for women in places of authority (i.e., addressing the congregation with prayer or preaching, prophecying). I doubt Paul is saying: Women, cover your head if you preach. Oh yeah, and don't preach.

Does your wife open her mouth to sing in congregational worship? Some songs are admonishments to the congregation (unison "prophesying"), and others are prayers. Is the head covering only when a women is the only person doing the talking?

 

[ChristopherPaul]

The covering mandate is still required; however, only during exceptional circumstances when those women who are moved by the Spirit, address the congregation with prayer or prophecy. Since my wife does not address the congregation and thus remains silent, she need not cover.

I'm sorry. I'm disobeying the rules of my own thread. I've just never heard this argument before, especially in light of I Cor. 14, just a couple chapters later, which mandates submission and silence for women in places of authority (i.e., addressing the congregation with prayer or preaching, prophecying). I doubt Paul is saying: Women, cover your head if you preach. Oh yeah, and don't preach.

Does your wife open her mouth to sing in congregational worship? Some songs are admonishments to the congregation (unison "prophesying"), and others are prayers. Is the head covering only when a women is the only person doing the talking?

You are breaking your own rule

I really don't have the time or energy to engage in a lengthy debate. I have stated my case in past threads.

To answer your question, my wife, just like the women of the Pauline churches and just like the children and the non-ordained laity, opens her mouth to sing in congregational worship. However, she does not address the congregation anytime after the call to worship and before the benediction. Only officers are to do such. I believe Paul meant what he said when he said women are to remain silent (he did not mean they cannot sing), but he also addressed the issue that some women were gifted with spiritual gifts and in those exceptional cases he required they cover when exercising those gifts to show that although they are not remaining silent, they are still showing they are not usurping God's order.

 

[Kim G]

You are breaking your own rule

I really don't have the time or energy to engage in a lengthy debate. I have stated my case in past threads.

I didn't really want to debate it anyway. Thanks for clarifying what you meant since I hadn't heard it before.

 

[Augusta]

Good poll Kim. This was the practice in almost all the churches up until a few decades ago. Just watch an old movie where people go to church. Amazing what feminism has done, even to the men.

 

[ChristopherPaul]

You are breaking your own rule

I really don't have the time or energy to engage in a lengthy debate. I have stated my case in past threads.

I didn't really want to debate it anyway. Thanks for clarifying what you meant since I hadn't heard it before.

You are welcome. As I tell others who are investigating this issue, the safe thing to do is to cover and if you do, God bless you. Because, lets say I am wrong then I (and my wife) are sinning by my wife not covering, but if she covers it is never a sin for a women to cover her head in church (women often wear hats to church).

 

[Davidius]

You are breaking your own rule

I really don't have the time or energy to engage in a lengthy debate. I have stated my case in past threads.

I didn't really want to debate it anyway. Thanks for clarifying what you meant since I hadn't heard it before.

You are welcome. As I tell others who are investigating this issue, the safe thing to do is to cover and if you do, God bless you. Because, lets say I am wrong then I (and my wife) are sinning by my wife not covering, but if she covers it is never a sin for a women to cover her head in church (women often wear hats to church).

It's Pascal's Wager in action! I love it!

 

[Kim G]

It's Pascal's Wager in action! I love it!

 

[ChristopherPaul]

I didn't really want to debate it anyway. Thanks for clarifying what you meant since I hadn't heard it before.

You are welcome. As I tell others who are investigating this issue, the safe thing to do is to cover and if you do, God bless you. Because, lets say I am wrong then I (and my wife) are sinning by my wife not covering, but if she covers it is never a sin for a women to cover her head in church (women often wear hats to church).

It's Pascal's Wager in action! I love it!

 

[Stomata leontôn]

(women often wear hats to church).

I love old pictures of all the crazy hats all ladies and girls used to wear to church. Stylish ribbons, birds, bows, and colors. I think it makes women attractive, like cute dresses.

 

[Galatians220]

(women often wear hats to church).

I love old pictures of all the crazy hats all ladies and girls used to wear to church. Stylish ribbons, birds, bows, and colors. I think it makes women attractive, like cute dresses.

Crazy hats?! Guilty!!! (I have a couple with the above-mentioned bows on them - and I do wear them during congregational worship... But only one at a time... )

Any fellow ex-mackerel-snappers out there remember "chapel caps?"

Yes: I am THAT OLD.

The "head covering thang" is a matter of conviction, I think. It took me a couple of years to wade through the research on it and for the HS to convict me. I fault no one who doesn't wear the head covering if female and no man whose wife/daughters don't.

Kim, thanks for this poll and thread.

Margaret

 

[Ivan]

(women often wear hats to church).

I love old pictures of all the crazy hats all ladies and girls used to wear to church. Stylish ribbons, birds, bows, and colors. I think it makes women attractive, like cute dresses.

Me too. I remember barely the days when this was the style.

 

[Kim G]

The "head covering thang" is a matter of conviction, I think. It took me a couple of years to wade through the research on it and for the HS to convict me. I fault no one who doesn't wear the head covering if female and no man whose wife/daughters don't.

I agree completely! Thanks for saying that.




<------ Me and my hats

 

[Augusta]

Hubby bought me a beautiful hat rack for all of my hats. I have three girls so we have a lot of hats.

It wasn't just the "style" to wear hats to church then. It may have become that but it started out because of the scriptures. Men always remove their hats and would feel weird wearing one to church. Why? It wasn't just because it was the "style."

 

[Ivan]

It wasn't just the "style" to wear hats to church then.

Yes, I understand what you're saying and I agree. I was speaking of the larger culture in our country. I doubt all of them understood the reason why they were wearing hats.

 

[Augusta]

I agree totally Ivan that people forgot why they were wearing hats. It was never taught anymore because it was just taken for granted. It's tragic.

 

[Ivan]

I agree totally Ivan that people forgot why they were wearing hats. It was never taught anymore because it was just taken for granted. It's tragic.

It is tragic. I have to admit I wasn't taught the reason. I don't come from a Christian home. Somehow I "caught" the meaning. Although I wasn't taught the things of the church (or Christianity), I was taught respect. I think that teaching of respect and my own reading of the Word taught me what it all meant.

 

[py3ak]

My wife wears a headcovering for congregational worship, because that is the conviction of the church where we attend, and it is certainly not wrong to wear one. However, our conviction is that headcovering are required for praying or prophesying publicly, which women are prohibited from doing in the congregation (1 Corinthians 14), and so it is not necessary for women to wear one during congregational worship.

 

[Galatians220]

We covered our heads in the RCC because we "had to." I think by the time I came along, "respect" for God's word was no longer involved.

I remember being four years old and my grandmother taking me into church for a "visit" to light candles on a weekday afternoon. She'd take a bobby pin and affix a piece of Kleenex on my hair "because we have to cover our heads and this is all I've got."

Nope: no respect there.



Margaret

 

[CharlieJ]

Kim, I'm sure you've been looking through this issue, but I'll point you to a resource that I found helpful, even if the conclusion seemed a bit strange.

Dan Wallace weighs in on the passage. Interestingly, his view has changed over time.

Bible.org: What is the Head Covering in 1 Cor 11:2-16 and Does it Apply to Us Today?