Passover
- Thread starter LadyFlynt
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LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
The Passover had a main event (in Exodus) and became a ceremonial event...continuing through scripture. It was only in the Main Event that a lamb is slaughtered (and on the cross THE Lamb was slaughtered) and it's blood sprinkled. In the ceremonial no one slaughters and sprinkles the blood. So if that was a sarcastic remark, then it was uncalled for, even if you do disagree.
There is a lesson to be learned and to teach our children in the observance of the Passover. The whole of it shows the shadows and types before Christ, shows the death and reserrection, and shows his second coming. In Jewish times there was Sabbath and a High Sabbath. The Passover was a High Sabbath day. Christ was celebrating Passover when He instructed the taking of Communion. The Passover meal can be considered a Special Communion.
There is a lesson to be learned and to teach our children in the observance of the Passover. The whole of it shows the shadows and types before Christ, shows the death and reserrection, and shows his second coming. In Jewish times there was Sabbath and a High Sabbath. The Passover was a High Sabbath day. Christ was celebrating Passover when He instructed the taking of Communion. The Passover meal can be considered a Special Communion.
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
Are you joking or just being sarcastic? (don't want to misunderstand anybody here)
Let's just say I was being semi-serious.
If you want to observe a biblical passover, you need to kill an unblemished lamb and perform certain rituals with the blood. We are told in Scripture this specific act prefigured the perfect Lamb of God who would be sacrificed for the sins of His people.
There are many pretend passovers celebrated by all sorts of folks today. Some are based on post-temple rabbinic traditions that have little in common with biblical truth.
I was wondering what sort ones observes in order to get the "learning experience".
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
I think you are mistaken in your assessment of the passover ritual.
"And they slaughtered the Passover offerings; and the priests sprinkled the blood with their hands, while the Levites skinned the animals. Then they removed the burnt offerings that they might give them to the divisions of the fathers' houses of the lay people, to offer to the Lord, as it is written in the Book of Moses. And so they did with the cattle." (2 Chron. 35:11,12)
Other than (perhaps) the specific spreading of blood on the doorposts and lintels of the houses, I don't see any difference in how it was acted out post Exodus 12.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
To start with I don't do it just for a "learning experience" but neither do I do it as a "we still need sacrifices" either.
The blood was not sprinkled on the doors after the exodus. That was a specific event. The passovers since have been a remembrance of that event. And unbeknownst to many of Israel, the symbols within the passover meal point to Christ throughout.
If you have never heard of any of this I would be willing to start a thread going step by step through a Passover meal.
The blood was not sprinkled on the doors after the exodus. That was a specific event. The passovers since have been a remembrance of that event. And unbeknownst to many of Israel, the symbols within the passover meal point to Christ throughout.
If you have never heard of any of this I would be willing to start a thread going step by step through a Passover meal.
Me Died Blue
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Then honestly, for what purpose do you do it?
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
Earlier you said:
Are you now backing off that statement, or do you still contend that after the "main event" no one "slaughtered and sprinkled blood"?
Do you kill animals in your passover? If not, what makes it a "passover"?
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by tcalbrecht]
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
I did not contradict myself. I still contend that they only sprinkled the blood on the doorposts in the exodus event....not afterwards.
The observance of Passover is a special observation, a special communion.
And yet, it has always been a teaching event for the family (not in some cutesy, wouldn't this be fun form as implied). As I stated before "The passovers since have been a remembrance of that event. And unbeknownst to many of Israel, the symbols within the passover meal point to Christ throughout." What about that is difficult to understand? Unless you just think it an absurd thing to do because you abhore anything that even hints of a Jewish connection.
The observance of Passover is a special observation, a special communion.
And yet, it has always been a teaching event for the family (not in some cutesy, wouldn't this be fun form as implied). As I stated before "The passovers since have been a remembrance of that event. And unbeknownst to many of Israel, the symbols within the passover meal point to Christ throughout." What about that is difficult to understand? Unless you just think it an absurd thing to do because you abhore anything that even hints of a Jewish connection.
heartoflesh
Puritan Board Junior
I've personally never been to a Passover dinner, but I've always wanted to. I've always had a keen interest in the Feasts and Festivals of Israel, and I have a great interest in Jewish culture as well. I would definately be in it for "the learning experience".
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Colleen,
Is it just as a tribute; no different than like say, Thanksgiving?
Is it just as a tribute; no different than like say, Thanksgiving?
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
Yes, I guess you could say that. Thanksgiving was special event, for many Thanksgiving was a religious event...not a secular one. Many Christians still hold Thanksgiving with more dignity and respect, directing it towards the Lord, unlike how the world has turned it into, as a day of gluttony.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Cool; While you're talking, will you Pass the potatoes please.
would you like more charoset also? And what kind of red wine would you reccomend this year?
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
Depends on what you mean by "give up being a Jew and all things Jewish".
Seems to me that "being a Jew" today does not mean the same thing that it meant during the time of Jesus and Paul. In that day "being a Jew" as defined by a unique relationship to the old covenant with its priesthood, sacrifices, and temple. Today, practically anyone can be a Jew from Sammy Davis, Jr. to Madonna. Jewishness is defined by the rabbis as being matrilineal in nature. Does that accurately reflect the biblical definition?
"Being a Jew" in that day also meant being uniquely marked out from the other peoples of the world by physical circumcision. As best as I can tell from history it seems that the early church soon gave up this physical distinction for its people.
I don't have a problem with folks enjoying their cultural distinctives. I was raised in an Italian home, and we still as a family enjoy many of those unique cultural experiences. Wearing a yalmulke is a quaint rabbinic practice that seem to mark off a Jew. It has no real biblical significance, but remains as a cultural thing. There's no real harm as long as you don't wear it while praying.
I would object to anything that in any way divides the people of God along ethnic lines. Some folks seem to use certain Jewish practices in this way even today, e.g., physical circumcision as a religious matter. I see no place for that among God's people, the universal church.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
I don't see observing Passover as dividing lines between ethinic groups, seeing as there are just as many Gentile Christians observing as there are Jewish Christians. I don't consider it to be held or rejected dogmatically. Just as many Christian (that I know of) are very insistant upon circumcism (but not because of the OC.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Tom,
So you feel it would be wrong to use a prayer shawl (tallit) if I want?
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee.
So you feel it would be wrong to use a prayer shawl (tallit) if I want?
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee.
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
But you will agree that every biblical passover until the end of the old covenant in AD70 involved the physical shedding of blood. So whatever you want to call these modern experiences, they are not a biblical passover.
The position of covenant theology is that the Lord's Supper has replaced the passover as a sign and seal of God's dealing with His people. Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." The blood of the passover lamb has been replaced by the "blood" of the fruit fo the vine. And, just as passover was in old covenant, the Lord's Supper is a sacrament, not a personal/family experience. The priest had the duty to kill the lamb on behalf of the family. Modern passover experiences are hadly sacramental in nature.
Under the new covenant there is no better "learning experince" for what God did on our behalf than the Lord's Supper.
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
I hate to answer a question with a question, but would it be OK for me to bless myelf with holy water before I pray in secret?
Why would you wish to do so? Does it give you a holy feeling?
Perhaps I'm missing something in the Bible about the appropriateness of physical adornment when praying or worshipping God, but I would see no reason to do it.
Of course if you were doing it in private ala Matt. 6:6 no one would ever know and we wouldn't be talking about it.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
Then you obviously have never been to a passover or studied it from a Christ driven perspective to accuse ppl of sacriledge.
Also a passover meal is not generally just immediate family, other believers are present, it is a gathering.
And the there has ALWAYS been wine with the Passover meal. The wine has ALWAYS respresented blood.
Also a passover meal is not generally just immediate family, other believers are present, it is a gathering.
And the there has ALWAYS been wine with the Passover meal. The wine has ALWAYS respresented blood.
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
I don't want to appear offensive, so forgive me, but this argument all revolves around the faux passover that people observe today.
In a biblical passover non-Jews would not be permitted to participate (Exodus 12:48).
It's illogical to call something a passover which omits all the biblical prerequisites.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Tom,
Do you ever pray with a baseball cap on? Here's the point, in and of itself, it is not sinful. If what Colleen is doing has no special meaning attached outside of the idea that it is no different from a Thanksgiving meal, it is harmless.
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by Scott Bushey]
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
do not we as Christians (jew and gentile) have the fulfillment of that covenant. That is why it IS acceptable today for both to observe.
and it is not a faux passover...it is the same as a special communion service, a time of Thanksgiving, a time of remembrance. This is not sacriledge. And I will have you know that members of your own denomination also participate.
and it is not a faux passover...it is the same as a special communion service, a time of Thanksgiving, a time of remembrance. This is not sacriledge. And I will have you know that members of your own denomination also participate.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Colleen,
We have the supper; anything else is 'thanksgiving'. Thats it. I believe to elevate it any higher than that cause for concern.
We have the supper; anything else is 'thanksgiving'. Thats it. I believe to elevate it any higher than that cause for concern.
tcalbrecht
Puritan Board Junior
Not since the seventh game of last year's playoffs between the Yankees and Boston. :bigsmile:
Or the 4th of July?
If all agree there is absolutely no religious significance to what is being done, then that is fine. However, given my interactions with MJs over the years, I don't think that is always the case.
In fact I've asked MJs point blank whether God is pleased by what they do, of if He would be displeased if they didn't do it. The majority of those asked indicated it was not a neutral thing as far as God is concerned.
I think it would be hard to convince them that their "passover" is just like the 4th of July.
[Edited on 2-2-2005 by tcalbrecht]
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
no, the Fourth of July was not a religious observance. Thanksgiving and Passover were. We still observe Thanksgiving...there is no harm in observing Passover. I am not elavating it to a dogmatic requirement, but neither is it without religious signifigance....it is full of religious symbolism and teaching.
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