Paul's Gospel and Caesar's Empire

[AV1611]

I believe that the capital of the world will be Jerusalem and Christ will reign there.

How much Plymouth Brethren works have you been reading?

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I believe that the capital of the world will be Jerusalem and Christ will reign there.

How much Plymouth Brethren works have you been reading?

 

[staythecourse]

First, Jesus is never wrong but I believe God has given it to Jesus who still lets Satan sublease the planet with a kingdom of non-believers still running the government, marketplace, etc.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

First, Jesus is never wrong but I believe God has given it to Jesus who still lets Satan sublease the planet with a kingdom of non-believers still running the government, marketplace, etc.

So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?

 

[RamistThomist]

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

I believe that the capital of the world will be Jerusalem and Christ will reign there.

Oh, I thought you meant the Jerusalem that is currently the capital of the atheist nation of modern Israel.

 

[MOSES]

First, Jesus is never wrong but I believe God has given it to Jesus who still lets Satan sublease the planet with a kingdom of non-believers still running the government, marketplace, etc.

So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?

Excellent point..!

 

[staythecourse]

Again, with due respect, you need to prove that.

I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?

 

[staythecourse]

Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

I believe the world becomes the kingdom of Christ. As of now, it is still Satan's until Christ's return.

Then Jesus was wrong when after the resurrection he said:
Matt 28:18
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Note: The Revelation verse you quote is speaking of Christ's resurrection too, and his taking his seat at the right hand of God..That is a fulfilled scripture.

Also, I thought there was a verse that said something like.
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness of it.


The earth never has and NOW certainly does not belong to Satan....(where do you get these crazy ideas....)

You don't see Satan winning the entire human race with the deception of Adam?

 

[MOSES]

Again, with due respect, you need to prove that.

I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?

If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.

 

[staythecourse]

First, Jesus is never wrong but I believe God has given it to Jesus who still lets Satan sublease the planet with a kingdom of non-believers still running the government, marketplace, etc.

So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?

Excellent point..!

I rent my home but the landlord owns it. I have no permanent right to this place, nor does Satan on the earth.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I believe the world becomes the kingdom of Christ. As of now, it is still Satan's until Christ's return.

Then Jesus was wrong when after the resurrection he said:
Matt 28:18
"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Note: The Revelation verse you quote is speaking of Christ's resurrection too, and his taking his seat at the right hand of God..That is a fulfilled scripture.

Also, I thought there was a verse that said something like.
The earth is the Lord's and the fullness of it.


The earth never has and NOW certainly does not belong to Satan....(where do you get these crazy ideas....)

You don't see Satan winning the entire human race with the deception of Adam?

The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.

 

[AV1611]

So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?

The view stems from the following verse as translated by JND:

1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one."

The problem is that they make it say more than it does.

 

[staythecourse]

Again, with due respect, you need to prove that.

I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?

If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.

Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

[email protected]

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

So your are telling us that Christ has given up the authority which God the Father gave him and has entrusted it to Satan until he returns?

The view stems from the following verse as translated by JND:

1 John 5:19 "We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked one."

I see. That would explain things.

 

[staythecourse]

The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.

No timeline?

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.

No timeline?

Sorry, but what do you mean?

 

[staythecourse]

The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.

No timeline?

I believe the heel was bruised at Calvary and the head was wounded at the same time but Satan isn't dead yet and that he will finally be thrown into the pit with all non elect (non-believers)

 

[MOSES]

I will try but I don't read Revelation very much but what do you all believe the 2nd coming is about?

If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.

Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

[email protected]

Will do...

It is only 15 pages double spaced. A real easy read...though the hardest thing to do was keep it short. I had a page limit that I could not go over.

 

[staythecourse]

I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint. When Christ comes back, there is a new heaven and earth devoid of all remnants of Satan's activity. The victory at Calvary has not fully come into fruition. We still have more saints to be born (and reborn) for one thing.

 

[staythecourse]

If you are interested I could send you a paper that I am finishing up on the exegesis of Matthew 24 which may be of help to you.

Send it my way (but how many pages we talking?)

[email protected]

Will do...

It is only 15 pages double spaced. A real easy read...though the hardest thing to do was keep it short. I had a page limit that I could not go over.

I have the same problem with writing: Keeping it to the point and brief!

 

[AV1611]

I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint.

You are yet to demonstrate that Satan ever ran the joint in the first place. Further, even though Satan is currently bound it does not mean he is not active.

 

[staythecourse]

Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

 

[MOSES]

Sin is a seperate thing from Satan. Sin caused satan to fall. Just because there is sin in the world does not mean that Satan rules it.
in my opinion, Satan could be destroyed and sin would still exist in the world. Christ is waging war and subduing the nations (he already took care of satan). Sin is the issue with the problems today...let's not give satan to much credit.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The seed of the woman bruises the serpent's head, while he bruises his heel (Gen. 3:15). Therefore, grace abounds over sin in history, the kingdom of Christ triumphs over the kingdom of darkness.

No timeline?

I believe the heel was bruised at Calvary and the head was wounded at the same time but Satan isn't dead yet and that he will finally be thrown into the pit with all non elect (non-believers)

Okay. But if Satan's head was crushed then who wins in history. Christ and those united to him or Satan and his followers?

 

[MOSES]

Daniel,
Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

Autonomy frightens me!!!

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

At the present time the thought of Christians running anything also frightens me. They think that they are fit to take over the civil government - which is the most dangerous of all forms of government - but look at the mess their own lives, families, and churches are in. Because we are refusing to govern ourselves under God we are being governed by tyrants. The government at the top is a reflection of the government at the bottom.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Daniel,
Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

Autonomy frightens me!!!

Exactly. It always makes me laugh when I hear pietists bewailing the crimes of Christendom. Yes there were mistakes made in the past, but Christendom was a lot better than Revolutionary France, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia or the current abortion holocaust in the west.

 

[staythecourse]

I see evil everywhere guys and that's my evidence Satan still runs the joint.

You are yet to demonstrate that Satan ever ran the joint in the first place. Further, even though Satan is currently bound it does not mean he is not active.

That is so wild. I have never heard that Satan doesn't have the world now. I read Scripture through that lens.

Where should I start. Give me a few minutes because I literally would need a starting verse. This is embedded in me and I would like to see in myself where I have developed this notion Scripturally (meaning I want to find the root verse(s) that apparently makes me interepret the world around me. We have really different worldviews based on who has the world now. I am waiting for Christ to finish the job and you have him already doing it from time immemorial (is that right or am I misreading you?)

 

[RamistThomist]

Daniel,

I can handle credo paedo disputes but I actually try not to be afraid when I think of Christians running the world (before Christ returns to be sure)

Theonomy frightens me. I wish I had a camera so you could see my face.

So you think Stalin would be a nicer ruler than those who advocate a limited govt with a 10% tax?

 

[staythecourse]

As I wrote that I can say, yes, he did since he was crucified before the creation of the world.

But I'm still waiting for all sin to be removed (from me a believer and the world of unbelievers which is doomed)