Question for Sabbatarians

[Herald]

Exactly. A list of Do's and Don'ts would sure make things easier at times, but I don't think that is what the Lord's Day is about.

The reality is that we all create such lists in relation to God's commandments, and not simply with respect to the Lord's day. If we were not thinking how God's word specifically applies to our hearts and lives there would be something wrong with our conscience.

Matthew, absolutely! I think the problem comes when a church exceeds the scripture/confessions, and codifies its own "do's" and "don'ts." When the saints are required to observe those things, consciences are often bound and legalism ensues.

 

[DonP]

Well Daniel I think from the OP of the thread what one can conclude is that we as church members be considerate of the fact God has told us to keep the Lord's day in a special way, not to d commerce and work.

Therefore be hospitable and on the lookout for those who may not have been so bold to call ahead, and would appreciate a lunch and some time with fellow brothers and sisters.
To try to hook them up with some like minded people, or any family willing to serve them by respecting their convictions.

So not much, actually, maybe transportation and a lunch.

I think there may be some more fundamentalists on the Lord's day but I have not met them. Those I know who are convicted even stricter than myself do it not out of slavish bondage or to earn salvation or win points with God or to be holier than thou, but simply because this is how God convicted them.
I think they are open to discuss the subject and explain how they came to their convictions, and only have the best desires for others.

We know it is a matter that god must grow us in, to loe to please Him this day not just outwardly follow rules. So we understand others who have not come to similar convictions if they are honestly open to the scriptures and being taught.

So wouldn't it be good for you and others to equally respect their more strict convictions?

Thanks for the thread and discussion.

 

[MW]

Matthew, absolutely! I think the problem comes when a church exceeds the scripture/confessions, and codifies its own "do's" and "don'ts." When the saints are required to observe those things, consciences are often bound and legalism ensues.

Yes, so the real issue is ensuring the conscience is bearing witness in the Holy Spirit and is informed by God's will when it engages in moral dictation.

 

[euaggelion]

Mark 2:23-28 NASB
And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. (24) The Pharisees were saying to Him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?" (25) And He *said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry; (26) how he entered the house of God in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?" (27) Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. (28) "So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

 

[Theoretical]

I guess I'm not used to these churches where everyone goes to restaurants afterward and they invite visitors to go with them. While my church isn't making a special announcement to invite "Sabbatarians" to someone's home, there is a good amount of hospitality going on. My pastor is almost always having people over to his house on Sunday, as are many of the elders. If you make yourself known as a regular visitor, your chances are good to eventually end up in someone's home.
As for out of town visitors, I don't see why you can't just call ahead of time. We'd bend over backwards to extend hospitality. But in a church of 400-500, it's kind of hard to pick out everyone who is a visitor and make sure they have a place to eat. In my opinion, the person visiting needs to take the initiative if they feel that strongly about it.

Then come to virtually any Dallas PCA, and you'll be shocked. I've been to 4, each with radically different cultures, but identical practices in this category.

Eating out during the week is extremely common, and most often when invited to someone's home, including a pastor's, the food will have been catered/delivered or the like. Very little cooking seems to happen in this particular region. Lots of times people will invite each other to a fast food place or a burger joint near the church, wherever it might be.

This may be (and honestly I hope it is) an unusual practice, but it is part of the church culture in my area, be it mainline, evangelical, and most Reformed (I do know of a few exceptions, but the difference between those churches and the most conservative PCA in this area are night/day)

That was some of what I meant in my response to the "Non-hostile to Sabbatarians" thread.

 

[DonP]

Mark 2:23-28 NASB
And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. (24) The Pharisees were saying to Him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?" (25) And He *said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and he and his companions became hungry; (26) how he entered the house of God in the time of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the consecrated bread, which is not lawful for anyone to eat except the priests, and he also gave it to those who were with him?" (27) Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. (28) "So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Yes these are deeds of necessity.
It is allowed to eat on the Lord's day and if you want to glean food you can but you can't collect extra to sell or harvest to store up.

Note also the example was done in the OT times and was legal then and so Christ shows the Pharisees what they had added in the Talmud was wrong but what scripture taught in the OT He did not repeal.

You can also pull your ox out of the ditch on the Lord's day but if your ox falls in the ditch every Lord's day I would suggest you fill the ditch or sell the ox so your Lord's days are not interrupted regularly.


The Pharisees said only walk 1200 paces max on the sabbath.

No one is saying that here.

See how easy it is to mis-interpret scripture or mis-apply it?

 

[Scott1]

Theoretical
Eating out during the week is extremely common, and most often when invited to someone's home, including a pastor's, the food will have been catered/delivered or the like. Very little cooking seems to happen in this particular region. Lots of times people will invite each other to a fast food place or a burger joint near the church, wherever it might be.

Sounds like an opportunity to be counter-culture and for you to learn how to cook. Seriously, and invite people over occasionally for a home cooked meal (sounds like that will be very popular, and a great way to show hospitality.).

-----Added 4/15/2009 at 06:05:03 EST-----

God made the seventh day holy, because in it He finished His creative work. So, the Lord's Day rest is not specifically a physical rest. It is a holy rest. As God still performed works of necessity (i.e. sustaining His creation), we are able to follow His example by acts of love and mercy towards the saints.

I agree about rest--it's more than just a physical thing. But if pressed for a simple answer of what I think the Sabbath is for, it is to worship and rest. I don't see the point in trying to define it more than Scripture does by composing a list of sinful activities on the Sabbath.

Yes,
This is a good summary and the words are in line with what the Confessions summarize the doctrine of Scripture to be.

How does one "worship"?
In thought word, and deed (not doing work or seeking to entertain oneself, or thinking or talking about them).

How does one "rest"?
"Sabbath" means "cease." One ceases, or sets aside, the ordinary activities of the rest of the week (esp. work and entertainment) in order to "worship" as above. Exceptions for mercy and necessity are (graciously) allowed.

So, while taking a hike with friends and focusing conversation on sports, work, and personal problems are fine any other day, the Lord commands us to "set apart" the sabbath from these ordinary activities in order to focus on Him. Our flesh resents that, the fact a Holy God actually has a claim on "our" time. It's inconvenient (to our agenda), it's a restriction on "our" freedom, a holy God wouldn't want to impose a restriction on us...

so our fallen minds reason.

So, what do we do on the sabbath?

Corporate, personal and family worship.

That includes things like attend worship, Bible class, reading the Bible at home to the family, praying, singing spiritual songs, quiet time, meditating on God's Word, memorizing Scripture, engaging in mercy works (giving a ride to church to a needy person, inviting them for a meal). It means what the Confession calls 'religious talk'- discussion of God's Word, doctrine, application, etc. Praying quietly and together.

Yet, God's Word calls it a delight to spend the whole time worshipping Him, something we will do forever in Heaven.