Question

[Reformingstudent]

I have a question:

What is your opinion of someone who claims to forgive an offense, but keeps dragging it back up whenever it comes to their mind? I know of a person who keeps holding a grudge against me even though I had repented and sought forgiveness awhile back and thought that according to this person I had been forgiven already. I was told that I was.
I had a falling out with this same person a while back, and at the time, my past offense came up once again. This person shows very little grace toward others and keeps accounts of past wrongs, but at the same time expects to be forgiven for the wrong that she does. I never claimed to be free of sin or wrong doing, but I have tried to put things right when I knew
I erred.
This same person, although possessing a lot of head knowledge of theology and claims to have a relationship with Christ, shows by her attitude that a lot of what she claims to believe in has not reached down to her heart. What I would like to know is mainly this, is it possible for someone to be a five point Calvinist and have a lot of understanding of theology and still be lost and if so, how can any one know for sure if they are truly saved or not? I know that we are called to examine our selves to see if we are in the faith but what of those, like this person who claims to know Christ but shows very little evidence that she truly does. I know that a good understanding of theology is important and I do not mean to sound anti- theolgical, but Paul him self said in 2Tim 1:12 that he knew in Whom he had believed, not just what he belived. Relationship to Christ is the most important thing, every thing else is secondary.
Not saying that the learning of theology isn't important, it is, but is just knowledge alone enough? how many people can know scripture and recite the WCOF backward, but substitute knowledge for having a real relationship with Christ?
Sorry for ranting, just wanted to know what others thought.


Blessings.

 

[Scott Bushey]

9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. [b:3c2039db61]Salvation is of the LORD[/b:3c2039db61].


9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 [b:3c2039db61]I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.[/b:3c2039db61]


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 [b:3c2039db61]But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it[/b:3c2039db61]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

[Edited on 3-1-2004 by Scott Bushey]

 

[AnonymousRex]

Boy, did you open up a can of worms, here. LOL

[quote:1741c0f8d9]What is your opinion of someone who claims to forgive an offense, but keeps dragging it back up whenever it comes to their mind?[/quote:1741c0f8d9]

This is a manipulative tactic. Obviously, this person has a penchant for finding ways, however subtle, to control other people. Technically, this is a form of witchcraft, but I'll save the semantics hereof for another time.

[quote:1741c0f8d9]This person shows very little grace toward others and keeps accounts of past wrongs, but at the same time expects to be forgiven for the wrong that she does. I never claimed to be free of sin or wrong doing, but I have tried to put things right when I knew
I erred.[/quote:1741c0f8d9]

I'm not going to ask you what you did, but the severity of the sin is a factor when it comes to forgiveness. It's easy to forgive and forget the off-coloured racial joke (no pun intended), for example, but something more serious is more easily remembered.

As far as you're concerned, you have made repeated attempts to seek forgiveness and it appears that you have repented of your wrongdoing. Now that the proverbial ball is on her side of the court, it is her prerogative as to what she will do. In other words, it is no longer your problem.

[quote:1741c0f8d9]This same person, although possessing a lot of head knowledge of theology and claims to have a relationship with Christ, shows by her attitude that a lot of what she claims to believe in has not reached down to her heart.[/quote:1741c0f8d9]

Be careful in making this assessment of her character, because you're essentially damning her to hell.

[quote:1741c0f8d9]What I would like to know is mainly this, is it possible for someone to be a five point Calvinist and have a lot of understanding of theology and still be lost and if so, how can any one know for sure if they are truly saved or not?[/quote:1741c0f8d9]

That it is possible for that person to be lost is certain. With regard to your second question, assurance comes through working out your salvation with "fear and trembling" - continuing to ask God for grace and experiencing that grace coming to fruition in your life. Note this: it is the case with every believer that he or she will "miss the mark". This is because he has not been glorified. There is a sinful remnant that remains, and while it is "dead", it continues to exercise its shadowy influence with assistance from the devil and his minions. From that "influence" you will never be completely purged in this lifetime; of that I have become increasingly certain.

With regard to your final inquiry I will say this: truth is personal (God). It has noetic, emotional and volitional dimensions. Theological orthodoxy is within the parameters of the noetic element, or dimension, of truth and while it reflects it, it is not the fullness of it. Even though I am a Calvinist, I would not say that Calvinism "is truth", in that it is not the fulness of truth. The fulness of truth is God, and since He is eternal and we are not, there will always be an element of truth that will elude us in this life on earth. From this I would conclude that while it is important to know the Westminster Confession, Heidelberg Catechism, Calvin's Institutes and what have you, to know only this is to not be thoroughly acquainted with truth. In a nutshell, it ain't what you know, it's who you know, but it stands to reason that what you know about who you know is important.

Hope this helps,

AnonRex

 

[Reformingstudent]

Hi Scott,

And thanks. That's a sweet looking little girl that you have there. I know you must be very proud.


God
bless

 

[Reformingstudent]

Re Question

Quote:
Be careful in making this assessment of her character, because you're essentially damning her to hell.

Whoa, I really did not intend to do that. I just meant to say that from what I have seen, I am not sure if this person was saved or not. If not, I still believe that she still could be, unless her heart is so hard or cold, God can't or won't deal with her any more. Is that where apostasy comes in? Not accusing this person of that, but that can be possible can't it?

Oops another can of worms. lol



blessings.

 

[Reformingstudent]

Quote: I'm not going to ask you what you did, but the severity of the sin is a factor when it comes to forgiveness.

Not to make light of it, but what I did really wasn't even what one would consider a 'sin' I just said some thing she took the wrong way and at the wrong time. I did try to make peace, but this person just wants to hold a grudge and use that as an excuse. She can't or won't get past this episode so I have moved on for my own sake.
I have forgiven and am at peace with God. I only wish that this person would learn that unforgivness and pettiness is not the sign of a true child of God.

 

[AnonymousRex]

You'd better talk to your pastor about this.

AnonRex

 

[Scott Bushey]

KEY,
Thanks, Her name is Zoe Olivia. She is a gift from God!

 

[Gregg]

Wow, this situation really hits home because I pretty much had it happen to me too (with a very close friend I was dating and had hoped to someday marry).

She pretty much would not forgive some things that I said despite my numerous apologies.

My advice would be to move on and put it behind you. If she won't forgive you in spite of your sincere apology, it is her problem not yours. Unforgiveness is really only selfish pride.

 

[pastorway]

[b:593b67e336]Romans 12[/b:593b67e336]
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

The key - "as much as depends on you" - sometimes there is not anything more you can do!

And I agree witht he counsel already given...have you talked to your pastor about this?

Phillip

 

[wsw201]

Key,

Unfortunately as an Elder I run into this more time than you can imagine. I know a lot of people who have their theology right but they continue to fail in living it out. You have done all that you can do, but this unforgiving spirit reminds me of Colossians 3:12-17:

12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

It would be nice if people remembered that God, through Christ, has forgiven much more than we could ever imagine and we should do the same for our brothers and sisters in Christ.