Questionable Hymns

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I don't think "Above All Powers" fits in very well with the theology of Scripture. If Christ had indeed "thought of me, above all," wouldn't the Scriptures indicate as much? I can see some plausibility to the notion that Christ thought of His Bride, the Church, above all other earthly creatures, but that hardly equates to the individualistic notion that he thought of "me" above all else. I don't think the average Christian sings the song or comes away thinking, "after God's glory and His own, Christ thought of me, in the context of the whole Church as His Bride, above all."
 
The Phillips, Craig, and Dean song I was thinking of is "Here I Am to Worship." The Missus and I were attending a PCA church once where this was sung in worship (I did not sing it). I mentioned it to the pastor afterward and, to his credit, he was horrified to find out about their modalistic theology.
 
The Phillips, Craig, and Dean song I was thinking of is "Here I Am to Worship." The Missus and I were attending a PCA church once where this was sung in worship (I did not sing it). I mentioned it to the pastor afterward and, to his credit, he was horrified to find out about their modalistic theology.

Actually, I think Matt Redman wrote that song and PCD just covered it. They don't write a lot of their own material.

Just out of curiosity, is your objection to the song or to PCD's modalistic beliefs?
 
My favourite questionable hymn. Gotta love the passion for heaven, but . . .

[video=youtube;dYqM9-Fj0Pg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYqM9-Fj0Pg[/video]
 
Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Are they from the Judson Jukebox?:eek:
 
Get your barfies ready......
[video=youtube;zPX5FU0ILGs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPX5FU0ILGs[/video]
 
Wesley's "And Can it Be that I should Gain"

Leaving aside the fact that the title reminds me of a bad diet:

"In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine."

Firstborn seraph???

I understand him as saying that not even the chiefest of the seraphs could play the deepest notes of the Gospel.

I see it as an elaboration of 1 Peter 1:12 "To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into."

as well as Hebrews 2:16- "For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham."
 
My brother in law who is part of a Vineyard church told me once that he wouldn't sing "Crown Him With Many Crowns" because of bad theology. I think his theology is generally pretty suspect, but I was wondering if anyone knows why that would be? I love that hymn. I didn't ask him at the time because generally we just degenerate into argument over these sorts of things.
 
Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Are they from the Judson Jukebox?:eek:

No, it was from the "Inclusive Hymns for Liberating Chrisitians." However, in the sacred precincts of the Holy Donut, I have heard some inclusive songs sung that came from the same theological piece of hymnal.
 
My brother in law who is part of a Vineyard church told me once that he wouldn't sing "Crown Him With Many Crowns" because of bad theology. I think his theology is generally pretty suspect, but I was wondering if anyone knows why that would be? I love that hymn. I didn't ask him at the time because generally we just degenerate into argument over these sorts of things.

Oh wow! I just looked up the words to the hymn and found 4 verses that I hadn't heard before!

Crown him with many crowns,
the Lamb upon his throne.
Hark! How the heavenly anthem drowns
all music but its own.
Awake, my soul, and sing of him
who died for thee,
and hail him as thy matchless King
through all eternity.

Crown him the virgin's Son,
the God incarnate born,
whose arm those crimson trophies won
which now His brow adorn;
fruit of the mystic rose,
as of that rose the stem;
the root whence mercy ever flows,
the Babe of Bethlehem.

Crown him the Son of God,
before the worlds began,
and ye who tread where he hath trod,
crown him the Son of Man;
who every grief hath known
that wrings the human breast,
and takes and bears them for His own,
that all in him may rest.

Crown him the Lord of life,
who triumphed over the grave,
and rose victorious in the strife
for those he came to save.
His glories now we sing,
who died, and rose on high,
who died eternal life to bring,
and lives that death may die.

Crown him the Lord of peace,
whose power a scepter sways
from pole to pole, that wars may cease,
and all be prayer and praise.
his reign shall know no end,
and round his piercèd feet
fair flowers of paradise extend
their fragrance ever sweet.

Crown him the Lord of love,
behold his hands and side,
those wounds, yet visible above,
in beauty glorified.
No angel in the sky
can fully bear that sight,
but downward bends his burning eye
at mysteries so bright.

Crown him the Lord of Heaven,
enthroned in worlds above,
crown him the King to whom is given
the wondrous name of Love.
Crown him with many crowns,
as thrones before him fall;
Crown him, ye kings, with many crowns,
for he is King of all.

Crown him the Lord of lords,
who over all doth reign,
who once on earth, the incarnate Word,
for ransomed sinners slain,
now lives in realms of light,
where saints with angels sing
their songs before him day and night,
their God, Redeemer, King.

Crown him the Lord of years,
the Potentate of time,
Creator of the rolling spheres,
ineffably sublime.
all hail, Redeemer, hail!
For thou has died for me;
thy praise and glory shall not fail
throughout eternity.

Oremus Hymnal: Crown him with many crowns

Could it be that he's a dispensationalist reacting to Jesus already reigning?

-----Added 10/27/2009 at 05:40:04 EST-----

And I just realized that the "Crown Him the Lord of life" verse is not in the TH!

Great verse! Because I work at the seminary, I get to go to all the chapels, and I've sung the song so much there too that I hadn't missed that verse!
 
How about the narcissistic "In the Garden"

"and the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known."

None other has known? Wait! Correction- has EVER known. Whoa! How about me and all the other believers?
 
Disclaimer: The following article is from an ardent defender of Exclusive Psalmody. The introduction strongly promotes EP over hymnody. I'm not posting it to get into into a psalmody vs. hymnody debate.

In the following essay, Rev. Angus Stewart analyzes the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster's Hymnal. A large number of the hymns found in this hymnal are present in others such as the Trinity Hymnal.

See if you find it possible to sing Charles Wesley's hymns after reading the appendix.
 
What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

The following is from the red Trinity Hymnal #479. It portrays Christ as a hand-wringing God begging us to come. :doh: :banghead:


Original Trinity Hymnal (blue), #694

Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals he's waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.

Come home, come home,
Ye who are weary, come home;
Earnestly, tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling, O sinner, come home.

Why should we tarry when Jesus is pleading,
Pleading for you and for me?
Why should we linger and heed not his mercies,
Mercies for you and for me?

Time is now fleeting, the moments are passing,
Passing from you and from me;
Shadows are gathering, deathbeds are coming,
Coming for you and for me.

Oh! for the wonderful love he has promised
Promised for you and for me;
Though we have sinned, he has mercy and pardon,
Pardon for you and for me.

I know what you mean we sung that song at the end of service Sunday. While Jesus and the Holy Spirit are knocking at your hearts door. Won't you you please let him in.
 
The Phillips, Craig, and Dean song I was thinking of is "Here I Am to Worship." The Missus and I were attending a PCA church once where this was sung in worship (I did not sing it). I mentioned it to the pastor afterward and, to his credit, he was horrified to find out about their modalistic theology.

I think I got you beat, Tim. When we moved to Atlanta several years ago, we visited a PCA church in the Buckhead section of town. It was one of the Perimeter PCA satellite congregations. They actually sung, during the worship service, "Castle on a Cloud", from the pop-opera Les Miserables! I'm not joking.
 
Concerning the OP, I'm interested that few have touched the hymns we sing all the time (such as And Can it Be) and have gone straight for the obvious ones. A lot of hymnals are full of songs that have Arminian theology. Many of the hymns of the Wesleys are suspect.

The popular hymn "Take my Life and let it be" has, in my opinion, clearly arminian theology in stanzas 5 and 6. People may disagree with that, but that is my cursory interpretation of them.

Regarding Watts, there have been threads in the past that have dealt with him. Gilbert M'Master's biography of Watts and historian J.H. Allen's work on Unitarianism in the British Empire both state that Watts died as a Unitarian, having denied the faith. Tony Cowley once told me that he had read all of M'Master's book. He said that it was indeed a damning indictment of Watts.
Needless to say, I do not sing hymns written by Watts.
 
The popular hymn "Take my Life and let it be" has, in my opinion, clearly arminian theology in stanzas 5 and 6. People may disagree with that, but that is my cursory interpretation of them.

Take my will and make it Thine,
It shall be no longer mine;
Take my heart, it is Thine own,
It shall be Thy royal throne.

Take my love, my Lord, I pour
At Thy feet its treasure store;
Take myself and I will be
Ever, only, all for Thee.

Where is the Arminian theology??
 
What's the issue with singing songs that pagans wrote? I don't care why someone offered meat to idols, to me it is clean. My worship is pure before the Lord, regardless of what they were thinking. I evaluate lyrics because those are my song to God. The life of whatever guy who put the lyrics together has no bearing on what I do with them.
 
I agree as far as concerns binding the conscience of others, but I have to admit I am not comfortable singing words written by heretics if I can avoid it. Perhaps this is just a weak conscience issue on my part, and I know I'm not consistent with it, as I have not investigated the author of every song I love to sing in worship. But nevertheless, if I do happen to know a little too much about it, it makes me very uncomfortable singing it.

What's the issue with singing songs that pagans wrote? I don't care why someone offered meat to idols, to me it is clean. My worship is pure before the Lord, regardless of what they were thinking. I evaluate lyrics because those are my song to God. The life of whatever guy who put the lyrics together has no bearing on what I do with them.
 
First, if the author of the hymn was notoriously unorthodox, that should render the hymn suspect. For example, Julia Ward Howe, who wrote "Battle Hymn of the Republic," was a Unitarian. I am wonder about suspect authors of other famous hymns

Frederick W. Faber, who wrote Faith of our Fathers was Roman Catholic.

Robert Robinson, who wrote Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing apostatized from the faith.
 
Regarding Watts, there have been threads in the past that have dealt with him. Gilbert M'Master's biography of Watts and historian J.H. Allen's work on Unitarianism in the British Empire both state that Watts died as a Unitarian, having denied the faith. Tony Cowley once told me that he had read all of M'Master's book. He said that it was indeed a damning indictment of Watts.
Needless to say, I do not sing hymns written by Watts.
Wish I had known that before - I would not have ordered and read his "On Improvement of the Mind". Very sad. :eek:

P.S. I have checked various sources and can see that it somewhat questionable. For example, here we read:
Lardner affirmed that in his last years (not more than two years at most, in failing health) Watts passed to the unitarian position, and wrote in defence of it; the papers were, as Lardner owned, unfit for publication, and as such were destroyed by Doddridge and Jennings, the literary trustees. Lardner declared also that the last belief of Watts was 'completely unitarian' (BELSHAM, Memoirs of Theophilus Lindsey, pp. 161-4). The testimony, however, of those who were most intimate with Watts to his last hours is entirely silent as to any such change; and his dependence at death on the atonement (which is incompatible with 'complete unitarianism') is emphatically attested (MILNER, Life, p. 315).

In The life, times, and correspondence of the Rev. Isaac Watts by by Milner, Thomas the issue is dealt with, too, and the author believes that Dr.Lardner is unable to provide sufficient evidence for his claims.
 
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Robert Robinson, who wrote Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing apostatized from the faith.


Robinson's life sure does add an extra dimension to that hymn! I haven't read much about him except for the famous quote that, at the end of his life, he looked miserable and a woman asked if he was the man who wrote "Come Thou Fount." He said, with tears in his eyes, that he'd written it long ago and that he'd give anything to "feel the same" as he did when he wrote it. I would have liked to ask what exactly he meant by that. Is there further evidence that this was because of apostasy or do we have reason to think that this misery was not unlike what Samson felt at the end of his life?
 
This particular praise & worship by Lincoln Brewster was sung in my non-denom church a few months ago. It bothered me so much, that I had to express my concerns to our elders. This song is pure law! Here are the lyrics:

Love the Lord your God
With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength (2x)

With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength
Love the Lord your God
With all your heart
With all your soul
With all your mind
And with all your strength

I will serve the Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength (2x)

With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength
I will serve the Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength

I will love You (I will love You)
I will praise You (I will praise You)
I will serve You, Lord (I will serve You)
I will trust You, Lord (I will trust You)

And with all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
With all my strength

I will love You Lord
With all my heart
With all my soul
With all my mind
And with all my strength (3x)

There is an awful lot of "I will" in this song!



Not only is it legalistic and man centred, but it is verging on being a mantra with all the repetition.

My favorite worst song would be "They Rush on the City, They Run on the Wall" which was often sung with great enthusiasm at my former church. It is taken from Joel 5 which describes God's judgment against Jerusalem by means of a hord of locusts! Some gebroni made it into a praise song - I remember standing at the back of the room once when this song was being sung and watching people clapping and waving their hands in joy, never realizing what the actual context was and that if they sang it at all it should have been sung in a minor key. Sheesh!!!
 
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