Questions About Death

[TheMantis]

I will do my best to articulate my questions for you fine people, most of whom are far more knowledgeable than I am, so please bear with me. I believe God is Holy and Just.
Why was death a punishment for Adam and Eve's sin? We often assume that Adam and Eve now have fellowship with God again and are in heaven. So, other than physically dying, what was the real purpose of death at that point in time? Was the actual punishment the separation from God's presence, the hard work, the pain in childbirth, and so on? Is that the sort of death that is being talked about? If it was a spiritual death, how were they able to get back into communion with God? Is death itself an offense to God? Why do some believers view death as a bad thing while others see it as a good thing? What is it about death that atoned for sin? In the OT, God made ways to atone for sin through animal sacrifice, and in the NT, he sent his Son. Most people aren't eager to die, but if the believer dies through sickness or maybe Satan uses something to take Him out, well, yes, he is not here, but now he's with the Lord, so what was accomplished? Death is viewed as an enemy, and at the same time, It was a created action, consequence, or state (I don't know the best word to describe it); for the believer, that isn't the case, and it still is negatively viewed. I apologize if this is incoherent or off base.

 

[pgwolv]

I will do my best to articulate my questions for you fine people, most of whom are far more knowledgeable than I am, so please bear with me. I believe God is Holy and Just.
Why was death a punishment for Adam and Eve's sin? We often assume that Adam and Eve now have fellowship with God again and are in heaven. So, other than physically dying, what was the real purpose of death at that point in time? Was the actual punishment the separation from God's presence, the hard work, the pain in childbirth, and so on? Is that the sort of death that is being talked about? If it was a spiritual death, how were they able to get back into communion with God? Is death itself an offense to God? Why do some believers view death as a bad thing while others see it as a good thing? What is it about death that atoned for sin? In the OT, God made ways to atone for sin through animal sacrifice, and in the NT, he sent his Son. Most people aren't eager to die, but if the believer dies through sickness or maybe Satan uses something to take Him out, well, yes, he is not here, but now he's with the Lord, so what was accomplished? Death is viewed as an enemy, and at the same time, It was a created action, consequence, or state (I don't know the best word to describe it); for the believer, that isn't the case, and it still is negatively viewed. I apologize if this is incoherent or off base.

Some thoughts, after reading William Perkins on the work of Christ.

Death is the curse of the law. In the covenant of works, sin was a capital offense. In the Old Covenant, God is merciful to restrict capital punishment to a limited list of major offenses. Sometimes God shows forth His prerogative to put to death those who break the law, even if they do so by negligence.

Christ's death changed ours from a curse into a blessing. Under Adam, our death is the wages of sin. Under Christ, our death is the gateway to glory. 1 Cor 15:54-56 “When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?” The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Php 1:21-24 “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.” Heb 2:14-15 “Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.”

When Jesus was arrested and crucified, Satan sought to foil God’s plans but only served to carry out God’s plans. The same is true with all suffering experienced by believers, because God works even those things together for the good of those who love Him.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

You ask a lot of questions, Brian! Welcome to the PB!

The death in the Garden was a physical death, though postponed, and a spiritual death, effected immediately by the decree of God. It was the result of the two first humans deciding for themselves what was good and evil, disobeying the command of God and aligning with / becoming the spiritual children of — Lucifer, prince of demons, and thus were to share the devil's doom, which was the lake of fire, prepared for him at his final punishment for his evil.

The first two humans got back into communion with the God they had sinned against by believing His promise of a Saviour from the evil one — in short, they re-entered into communion with Him by faith.

You ask "What is it about death that atoned for sin?" You speak as though you do not know much about the gospel, the Glad Tidings. Or maybe you are just throwing out rhetorical questions so as to cover a lot of ground. I don't know. Only one death atoned for sin. I suppose you know that, or you wouldn't be here.

There is an upside in death for the saint, which is an end of personal sin (remaining corruption), and entrance into the intermediate state, which is disembodied existence in the immediate glory and love of God, and fellowship with the departed saints, and the angels (Heb 12:22, 23, 24).

But we also have work to do, and it behooves us to finish those works the Lord has given us to do, as far as we can see them (Eph 2:10). We should not want to die prematurely. And perhaps we have loved ones to care for, and duties in caring for the children of God.

A downside in death for the saint, is the death of loved ones. Or imprisonment / torture and the like — which pain is to be thought of (and dealt with, i.e., having a proper attitude) so:

“The most dangerous thing, spiritually, is a happy life.” ~Tim Keller

“When you go through a trial, the sovereignty of God is the pillow upon which you lay your head.” ~C.H. Spurgeon

‘Faith sees that in her worst sorrow there is nothing penal; there is not a drop of God’s wrath in it; it is all sent in love.’ ~9/12 Evening, Spurgeon

Another from Keller, “Life-giving faith grows pure, and strong, and beautiful where gold grows pure, and strong, and beautiful – in the furnace.” ~from sermon “The Healing”​

I hope this answers a little of your questions, Brian.

 

[TheMantis]

Hi Steve,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Yes, I do know the gospel, and I was trying to cover a lot of ground. One death (Jesus) paid the ultimate price as the perfect final sacrifice to atone for sin. Before that, In the OT, God made way for atonement. Lev 1:4, 4:20,26,31,35. Of course, there are more verses like these, but the point is that this sacrificial system was a means for sin to be forgiven. Yes, it had to be done often and yearly (Yom Kippur). So that I understand correctly (What is it about death that atoned for sin?) Is it that by shedding the blood of the innocent (animals who can't sin, Jesus who never did) to the guilty? It would make sense, given that you could atone for sin In the OT through sacrifice on behalf of another. God is Holy, so this demonstrates the seriousness of sin. Am I off base here?