Recreation, Hobbies, etc.

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kb1275

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I was not sure which forum to post this in exactly, so please feel free to move it.

I have been getting back into reading fiction lately, which I do at the end of the night for about an hour before I go to bed. Not to justify it, but to put it into perspective: I set aside time in the beginning, middle, and end of my day for intentional prayer and reading Scripture. I use my lunch hour at work to read through a theological book (currently going through Reformed Dogmatics). As I have been enjoying it, I also know that my personal satisfaction is not a barometer for if something is wise or good for me. I think of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien who wrote fiction, but again I do not want others to be my gauge if something should be done.

I am curious what the reformers, puritans, other theologians have to say regarding recreation, hobbies, and the like?

My wife and I usually spend our Saturday evenings with some drinks (reasonable amount) and watch a movie together. In terms of content, both the fiction books I read and the movies we watch are vetted regarding content (I avoid anything with nudity/sexual content).

Still, with the fiction reading and movie watching I do, I am finding myself asking if I should be setting aside those things for those that have explicitly more godly and Christ-centered content. I am starting to get at odds with myself if I am becoming legalistic, which I want to avoid, but also not give myself excuse to engage in behaviors that are not edifying.

This has been on my mind for some time, and I'd appreciate the input of others.
 
I think it's really important to have domains and hobbies outside one's occupation and "just religious books and the Bible" if possible. The reason is that we were magnificently created as body-soul unities and that we don't just learn 1+2=3 or "mountains are tall and rocky structures of the earth" in isolation. We learn and interweave knowledge.

Personal narratives are dangerous here, but making my own sourdough bread in 2020 pressed home the nature of original and indwelling sin to me in a way I had never understood before, and furthermore made my understanding and ability to explain it much more straightforward and intuitive.

Something like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is interesting and notable because I think it provides a worldview perspective on a calamitous, existential war in a way totally different than the despair-ridden chronicles of so many of his WWI-scarred contemporaries (things like All Quiet on the Western Front and so on). Good narrative also can be packed with real-world wisdom. One of my favorite scenes from the Return of the King (book) is where Pippin meets Beregond, one of the captains of the guard at Minas Tirith just after he's been sworn into the Steward's service:

"Er well," said Pippin, "if I may venture to say so, rather a burning question in my mind at present is, well, what about breakfast and all that? I mean, what are the meal-times, if you understand me, and where is the dining-room, if there is one? And the inns? I looked but never a one could I see as we rode up, though I had been borne up by the hope of a draught of ale as soon as we came to the homes of wise and courtly men."

Beregond looked at him gravely. "An old campaigner, I see', he said. "They say that men who go warring afield look ever to the next hope of food and of drink; though I am not a travelled man myself."
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I believe it's in Book 4 somewhere, can't recall exactly where because it stuck to me in the audiobook. That little anecdote is loaded with hard-won wisdom no doubt learned in the trenches of World War I. It has served me very well in situations of crisis with a friend or a family member's health struggles. It's very, very important in those situations to not make any assumptions about your next meal or time to get sleep when dealing with an acutely sick parent or someone potentially facing a crisis, especially where you need your wits about you. It's presented as a narrative, but wisdom that really sticks and pays off.

[Side note, one of the things I appreciate about Tolkien is the fact that fundamentally, no matter who else has magic or similar powers, men [and hobbits] do not and it's sorcery and devilry for them to do it or tap into those arts. To the extent there's magic, it comes from other non-human creatures like wizards or elves on the good side or orcs and even fallen creatures. Good men, hobbits, and dwarves never seek after magic and elves are sufficiently not human that someone cannot "become an elf" even if they can intermarry. The point is, there's 0 temptation or draw to magic or sorcery for humans as anything other than a cursed monstrosity.]

Chesterton's Father Brown detective stories are brilliant because the detective's insights and secret power comes from decades as a priest hearing prisoners' confessions and understanding human nature, including his own very, very well. The crimes and especially the solutions reflect a deep awareness of human nature that the reader also picks up.

Jane Austen's similarly loaded with insights into human character, both based on observations and especially insight she'd receive as a member of a sandwich class - high enough to have servants and interact with much higher classes regularly while also regularly interacting with people in the lower classes in a very stratified world. One of her great insights that's clear from the 5th Commandment is that whatever class someone is, how they treat inferiors speaks volumes about their character, good and bad. Men and women of character are portrayed not as perfect people but instead as people who grow and repent (Mr Darcy, Emma Woodhouse, Edward Ferrars, and Marianne Dashwood come to mind from some of my favorites).

I say this as someone far too poorly read for his own good.

Illustrations in teaching (I see you seek to be an elder) shouldn't just be from movies or fiction (that gets old and cringeworthy quickly), but should ideally being drawn from a broad array of knowledge, including historical events, biographies, natural phenomena, the sciences, and so on. Knowlege is inherently interconnected and so don't be surprised if you start making connections in a host of different areas.
 
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kb1275 said:
I was not sure which forum to post this in exactly, so please feel free to move it.

I have been getting back into reading fiction lately, which I do at the end of the night for about an hour before I go to bed. Not to justify it, but to put it into perspective: I set aside time in the beginning, middle, and end of my day for intentional prayer and reading Scripture. I use my lunch hour at work to read through a theological book (currently going through Reformed Dogmatics). As I have been enjoying it, I also know that my personal satisfaction is not a barometer for if something is wise or good for me. I think of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien who wrote fiction, but again I do not want others to be my gauge if something should be done.

I am curious what the reformers, puritans, other theologians have to say regarding recreation, hobbies, and the like?

My wife and I usually spend our Saturday evenings with some drinks (reasonable amount) and watch a movie together. In terms of content, both the fiction books I read and the movies we watch are vetted regarding content (I avoid anything with nudity/sexual content).

Still, with the fiction reading and movie watching I do, I am finding myself asking if I should be setting aside those things for those that have explicitly more godly and Christ-centered content. I am starting to get at odds with myself if I am becoming legalistic, which I want to avoid, but also not give myself excuse to engage in behaviors that are not edifying.

This has been on my mind for some time, and I'd appreciate the input of others.
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I'd say you already have a good basis for your activities, vetting movies and all. You also have no desire for legalism, which is good, that can cause it's own problems. I think personally legalism and antinomianism are when someone either takes something subjective and tries to make it objective or objective to subjective.
What I mean is theirs no good reason to watch a movie with nudity/sexual content in the name of Christian liberty, objective to subjective. Also theirs no good reason to forbid something for all Christians to do, like having a reasonable amount of alcohol, that is a matter of conscience. Subjective to objective.
A good balance is necessary for a healthy life.
 
The Puritans understood that recreation was necessary, which can be demonstrated by the Larger Catechism listing it among the duties required by the sixth commandment, for example:

"The duties required in the sixth commandment are, all careful studies, and lawful endeavours, to preserve the life of ourselves and others by...a sober use of meat, drink, physic, sleep, labor, and recreation;"

It is listed there among other important things such as food, sleep, medicine, and labor. Of course the counterpart to this is found in the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment, which include immoderate use of any of these good things.

This recreation could be any number of things: walking, a hobby, reading for pleasure, conversation, etc. As in all things, moderation is required and not all things are equally beneficial (you list some yourself that you avoid).

I will note however that per the fourth commandment, we are to have a holy resting on the Sabbath, even from "such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days".

Personally I have read and continue to read quite a bit of theology. But I cannot sustain that all day every day. I need other things to refresh my mind and fiction does that. I don't consume either exclusively or undiscerningly but deliberately, and find that it actually seems to increase my overall throughput to change things up a bit. To refresh, or "recreate" myself. There are also some wonderful insights to be gleaned from good fiction.

And then there are machines like @Reformed Covenanter who read history and theology exclusively ;)
 
I think it's also worth pointing out that reading fiction has demonstrated an increase of empathy and ability to understand others, which serves an edifying purpose.
 
I’ve often battled with this question, brother. I’m a Radio Ham and draw much pleasure and enjoyment from this hobby. I’ve always taken great comfort from the Larger Catechism as quoted above - to be used in moderation alongside food and drink and sleep.
Your heartfelt desire to avoid legalism is most encouraging and the fact you wish to avoid it a) shows you understand the danger and b) likely are avoiding it already.
May your leisure activities continue to be one of the means by which the Lord blesses you in your life, and strengthens you in your Diaconal ministry.
 
God created recreation, so as long as it you can:
  • Enjoy it with thanksgiving to the Creator;
  • Not be enslaved by it;
  • Not be tempted to sin by it; and,
  • Use it to actually rest and not add to your burden;
...then you should be able to enjoy whatever you enjoy without scruple. I find recreational activities, as a category, to be subject to Christian liberty, and thus subject to wisdom. If you like reading fiction, then go ahead as long as it does not interfere with your other duties. Other people enjoy sports. I like video games. Others like hiking.

There are seasons where you can enjoy these to a great extent, while there are others where you cannot. For example, I mentioned I like video games. When I was younger, I was able to spend an hour or so each day playing during my commute home from work on public transit. I generally played after completing all my responsiblities and performing my God-ordained duties, and prioritized in-person fellowship when those opportunities arose. But as far as individual recreation, video games were my go-to.

After getting married, I found that I had less personal time, which I had to decide if I wanted to spend on video games or something else. Video games, as much as I enjoyed them, were a lower priority for me compared to spending time with my wife or studying God's Word—activities I'm pleased and honored to be called to do. So my gaming time dropped from double-digit hours a week, to single-digit hours a week—and usually with my wife. After having children, my personal time became even more valuable and scarce, so gaming time has basically disappeared and absorbed into higher priority activities such as fellowshipping and loving my wife and shepherding our children.

From my observation, unlike other men that stopped playing video games, I do not hate video games or find them to be an intrinsic waste of time. Rather, I enjoy video games because I recognize that God made them through humanity and they reflect something sublime about God's design of the world: its history, its natural rules, and God's providence overall—not to mention various games' storytelling, art, and music design. I do find that they do not fit in current season of family life; in fact, spending time playing would inhibit my ability to serve my family well at this time. Therefore, I stopped playing—it's been over a year since I booted up a game. I've only played one game for like 30 minutes, and it was in the context of fellowshipping with my neighbor. It was a good time, but I recognized that this is not the season to get involved with that recreation because of how much it demands of me.

All that to say, enjoy reading fiction and watching movies, especially if it is with your wife. God made those things too. To repeat myself, if you can enjoy them with wisdom and thankgiving, then do it.
 
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This is a subject that has recently weighed heavy on my own heart, and my experience has been that I have been able to draw closer to God in those times that I have been most sensitive to my use of recreations (i.e. considering their substance, their source, their end, as well as the use of the time itself). I would consider blanket statements and hard/fast rules to be red flags for legalism (though there are good reasons for these at times, i.e. when employed as a strategy against a particular besetting sin). However, I will offer these observations from my own experience, in hopes that they could be a help to you:

1. Be very careful to listen for the Holy Spirit, and obey those smallest tugs at your heart. I have noticed more and more, at times when it would have been customary for me to pick up a book or laptop, a prick of conscience to pick up the Bible or spend time in prayer/worship. When obeyed, I find great blessing. When brushed off, I have an increased sense of having wasted time, or even having grieved the Spirit. I don't have those tugs every time there's an opportunity for recreation, only sometimes. I would love to cultivate that sensitivity though!

2. When evaluating substance, don't compromise on the first table of law. It is good to draw hard lines around 7th commandment violations, it is even better to draw hard lines around 3rd commandment violations (as an example). I have noticed an increased awareness and sensitivity toward the use of the Lord's names and attributes as I have purged more and more Hollywood from my life.

3. Generally, I find that my recreations are not mine to discover or choose, nor is their end strictly my enjoyment and benefit. If we are dead to self and alive to Christ, we ought to imitate his own earthly life in ours—and he was always about his Father's business. Recreation and time-wasting are not the same. The nature of my own recreations has drifted more and more toward relationships, education, and kingdom work.

My pastor is often reminding us of the heavenly reward. No one will arrive in glory and wish that they had seen more movies or played more games. If this life is a vapor, and if heaven is even a fraction of what God promises (not intended flippantly), my goal should be to arrive at my deathbed utterly exhausted and spent in his service. It is a struggle to keep all in balance (after all, you don't want to be so zealous that your wife is ignored and grieved), but dividing your attention between God-given duties is different than dividing your attention between God and mammon.
 
Jeri Tanner said:
One suggestion I thought of here is to trade the fiction for good Christian biography or history.
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That could certainly be edifying, but why would that be necessary? Time reading a fictional book, as long as one's God-ordained duties have been performed and the book is glorifying to God, is not time wasted at all.
 
i didn’t say it was necessary, but I get the impression that Kim is looking to be more sure in redeeming the time he’s been given each day, and this is a suggestion. And it’s hard to say what is wasted time or not for someone else. I think the main reason I suggested it though is because a while back I undertook to do the same thing at bedtime (read fiction- Jane Austen), and found that it didn’t satisfy. I wanted to fall asleep having read something edifying to mind and soul.
 
I wrestle with this as I get older and more infirm. I burn with passion toward a lot of things: astronomy, aviation, boat building, mechanics, advanced math, languages. My wife was an inspiration too, we played old music together.

But she has passed, I don’t fish and engage with God’s creation like we used to. But I still spend 8 or 9 hrs a day on study and pastoral work. I sense the two-ended candle has slowed its burn.
 
This is kind of the way I look at recreation and hobbies. God has promised his elect eternity. While this is not explicitly stated in the Bible, as far as the exact details of Heaven, there is no reason to believe that in that eternity, we will not have an eternity to enjoy and experience every good thing (Psalms 84:11.) There, we most likely will not have to weigh through libraries of books. Every book there will have been approved for us, and every book written there will be by glorified people unable to sin (Rev. 21:27.) But think about this. If we have an eternity, and life will literally never end, having the chance to read every good book, ever written on earth, is not impossible. Do you want to learn the piano, guitar, how to knit, how to carve, how to sing, how to dance, and list can go on; you will soon be in a place where life will never end. You will literally have the potential to be better at everything, then everybody who ever attempted it in this life. This then comes back to the present imperative. And taking a direct example from the NT, our examples were infatuated with doing the will of God while on earth. Notice the contrast. We dont have to feel bad about not traveling some place, not learning a certain language, not reading a certain book, not learning a certain science, etc. God has promised us forever (John 3:15.) What we should be more concerned about is the frivolous wasting of time within this present vapor (2 Tim. 2:4.) Recreation is good, and is needed; but the danger with many hobbies, especially for men, is we have a drive to master what ever we set our hands to. This means hobbies can very easily become infatuations in our striving to perfect them. By all means, rest the mind, find refreshment, do something to unwind; but remember we will be held accountable for what we do here and how we used our time; especially in light of a promised eternity (Matt. 12:36.) God could have given us any examples he chose in his Word. But he chose to give us examples of people who "were about the Fathers business" until they died. I at least try to keep this in mind when I begin to covet those who with a clear conscience seem to set aside such a drive to pursue trivial matters. I am not their judge, but I know I will be judged, and part of my faith is believing "nobody has left family, or home" who will not receive more in this life, and the life to come. (Mark 10:28-30) I have to be of the mindset there is nothing I can give up, that God cannot replace (1 Cor. 3:22), and in such a glorious way, I could never imagine it. (1 Cor. 2:9-10) So yes, hobbies and recreation are needed, and of course blessedly allowed; but they should always, at least in my opinion, remain in the context that they serve as needed reprieves from our constant Warfare, but never over-reach into the realm of letting a day off become desertion.
 
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kb1275 said:
I have been getting back into reading fiction lately, which I do at the end of the night for about an hour before I go to bed. Not to justify it, but to put it into perspective: I set aside time in the beginning, middle, and end of my day for intentional prayer and reading Scripture. I use my lunch hour at work to read through a theological book (currently going through Reformed Dogmatics). As I have been enjoying it, I also know that my personal satisfaction is not a barometer for if something is wise or good for me. I think of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien who wrote fiction, but again I do not want others to be my gauge if something should be done.
Click to expand...

Charles Spurgeon had a huge personal library. More than half of the books he owned were secular books, which I always thought was interesting.

1726306741707.png
 
A good barometer for the recreational activities we choose, be it watching movies, reading, playing pickleball, is that we are doing it to the glory of God. We live in this world, but are not of this world, which allows us to see where we can enjoy things in accordance with His will. We do not have to read theology textbooks or our Bible 100% of the time we are not working or fulfilling family obligations. All recreation is an opportunity to worship and engage with others towards either proclaiming the Gospel through our witness and personal engagement with those we interact with. Choosing whether to engage in recreational activities is not an either/or, but an if/then (if I do this then I can proclaim God in this way).
 
Maintain proper balance. If a man spends 4 hours a day on YouTube and video games and 15 minutes a day in prayer and the Word, something is amiss. To the OP, as an aspiring elder (per your signature), prepare to be very busy so you must steward your time well. Learn now to make lots of time for praying for God's people. If I have 15 minutes to read a book, yes it would be absolutely permissible to read some fiction, but I often think how I might better serve the body by reading a book on a counseling topic or something the congregation may be struggling with.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
 
davejonescue said:
This is kind of the way I look at recreation and hobbies. God has promised his elect eternity. While this is not explicitly stated in the Bible, as far as the exact details of Heaven, there is no reason to believe that in that eternity, we will not have an eternity to enjoy and experience every good thing (Psalms 84:11.) There, we most likely will not have to weigh through libraries of books. Every book there will have been approved for us, and every book written there will be by glorified people unable to sin (Rev. 21:27.) But think about this. If we have an eternity, and life will literally never end, having the chance to read every good book, ever written on earth, is not impossible. Do you want to learn the piano, guitar, how to knit, how to carve, how to sing, how to dance, and list can go on; you will soon be in a place where life will never end. You will literally have the potential to be better at everything, then everybody who ever attempted it in this life. This then comes back to the present imperative. And taking a direct example from the NT, our examples were infatuated with doing the will of God while on earth. Notice the contrast. We dont have to feel bad about not traveling some place, not learning a certain language, not reading a certain book, not learning a certain science, etc. God has promised us forever (John 3:15.) What we should be more concerned about is the frivolous wasting of time within this present vapor (2 Tim. 2:4.) Recreation is good, and is needed; but the danger with many hobbies, especially for men, is we have a drive to master what ever we set our hands to. This means hobbies can very easily become infatuations in our striving to perfect them. By all means, rest the mind, find refreshment, do something to unwind; but remember we will be held accountable for what we do here and how we used our time; especially in light of a promised eternity (Matt. 12:36.) God could have given us any examples he chose in his Word. But he chose to give us examples of people who "were about the Fathers business" until they died. I at least try to keep this in mind when I begin to covet those who with a clear conscience seem to set aside such a drive to pursue trivial matters. I am not their judge, but I know I will be judged, and part of my faith is believing "nobody has left family, or home" who will not receive more in this life, and the life to come. (Mark 10:28-30) I have to be of the mindset there is nothing I can give up, that God cannot replace (1 Cor. 3:22), and in such a glorious way, I could never imagine it. (1 Cor. 2:9-10) So yes, hobbies and recreation are needed, and of course blessedly allowed; but they should always, at least in my opinion, remain in the context that they serve as needed reprieves from our constant Warfare, but never over-reach into the realm of letting a day off become desertion.
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I really appreciate your comment about the examples we have throughout Scripture, and I think of those in church history. Nobody would consider them lazy or committed to things apart from God.
 
how do we exactly glorify God by pickleball?

I have an answer in mind but it is not that I consciously think of God when I play pickleball, or when I reel in a fish etc
 
Polanus1561 said:
how do we exactly glorify God by pickleball?

I have an answer in mind but it is not that I consciously think of God when I play pickleball, or when I reel in a fish etc
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It’s a great question. How do we glorify God when we’re at work? How do we glorify God in the supermarket, or doing chores, or in conversation? We glorify God through how we comport ourselves, not in an effort to show that we are better—that would be Pharisee-like behavior—but because we are commanded to comport ourselves in a certain way through scripture.

In Philippians 2:5, Paul wrote “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus.” To compliment this passage, I also appreciate the 1599 Geneva Bible’s footnote on this verse: “He setteth forth them a most perfect example of all modesty and sweet conversation, Christ Jesus, whom we ought to follow with all our might.”

So, in the case of pickleball, we can be modest and complimentary, kind in heart, and demonstrate grace and love, without debasing ourselves.

alwaysreformed said:
It’s a great question. How do we glorify God when we’re at work? How do we glorify God in the supermarket, or doing chores, or in conversation? We glorify God through how we comport ourselves, not in an effort to show that we are better—that would be Pharisee-like behavior—but because we are commanded to comport ourselves in a certain way through scripture.

In Philippians 2:5, Paul wrote “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus.” To compliment this passage, I also appreciate the 1599 Geneva Bible’s footnote on this verse: “He setteth forth them a most perfect example of all modesty and sweet conversation, Christ Jesus, whom we ought to follow with all our might.”

So, in the case of pickleball, we can be modest and complimentary, kind in heart, and demonstrate grace and love, without debasing ourselves.
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I’ll also add that as we spend more time in actively pursuing our paths of sanctification, we do not have to actively think about it because it becomes instinctual. Our actions will bear the fruit of our deeds. If our deeds and mindset are poor, then we will bear poor fruit of our individual spirit, and vice versa.
 
VictorBravo said:
I wrestle with this as I get older and more infirm. I burn with passion toward a lot of things: astronomy, aviation, boat building, mechanics, advanced math, languages. My wife was an inspiration too, we played old music together.
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What about plane building? :) I've always appreciated your hobbies from afar.

I also have a multiplicity of passions and curiosities as well including astronomy (and languages, math and other things). In today's parlance, "FOMO issues." I've found that I have had to take stock and rotate interests for time and financial reasons. In other words, learn some stewardship. Before our first child was born, I had a nice go-to, Mak-Cass telescope. We lived in the city and my wife didn't even have a >0 interest in the subject. I estimated the days a year that I'd likely drive out to the country and sit in the dark myself or even to a star-party to use it. Not many and so I sold it over 13 years ago. The money came in handy anyway. Having said that, it does not mean there is no telescope in my future. Just not then, nor right now.

Hobbies and avocations call for a secondary consideration to one's family, faith and vocation/future vocation. That does not mean *no* consideration. Furthermore, unless the hobby is immoral, not now does not necessarily mean not ever.
 
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