Salvation

[Jimmy Eppley]

H, all

This is the first time I'm posting. I hope that this is the right thread. Currently, I'm teaching English in the Seoul metro area. I've been having a Bible "study" with someone here. She has been saying many...uncommon things. Space wouldn't permit me to write all of them. One thing is that throughout the Bible eras there has been different ways to receive salvation. Noah-the ark; Moses-entering Canaan; the Prophets-The prophecy of the Messiah, the Law; Currently, the way for our era is the Gospel, but also having understanding of the parables of Jesus. She has a lot of verses to back her up, if you will. She knows her Bible very well. She says that she's getting back to the Bible. So far, I've been mostly just listening, but sometimes I question if she is right about a lot of the things. She does have some good things to say, but others seem quite the opposite. She's part of a "ministry" here, but I'm beginning to think that it's a cult. I've been praying for wisdom in all of this. I hope that this post makes sense.

 

[Cymro]

There is only one way of salvation in the OT and New, and that by sacrifice.
For without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. The views
the lady holds seem cultish.

 

[Rom]

Easy enough to prove that it is impossible to be saved by any way other than the blood of Christ. If there were another way, then God would never have had to send His only Begotten Son. As those in other dispensations would be able to save ourselves.
Galatians 2:21 - "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

And we know that even the sacrificial system was typological of Christ, and didn't actually take away sins -
Hebrews 10 - 1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2*For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3*But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4*For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

She sounds like a pretty strict Dispensationalist... or something. I would certainly agree that it is cultish and not orthodox.

God's People are the same through every dispensation - it is by Christ's righteousness and His alone that we are saved. No one is righteous, not one, no one seeks after God (Romans 3) ... therefore by deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.... And therefore no one born of ordinary generation after Adam's Fall could ever be saved through their own effort at Law Keeping. Unless she wants to maintain that somehow Adam's race has had a "second fall" between the Law being given and Christ's Incarnation. Clearly, she is twisting the Scriptures.

In effect she is teaching a different sort of gospel, and Paul warns about these. If she is teaching this false gospel, then I'd certainly part ways with her company. I'm not sure what church structure you are a part of due to your lack of signature, but I'd not be party to a Bible Study where those who are leading it are not Confessional (or closest to it I could find). Certainly, I'd hope that your church is orthodox and would put a stop to this if this study is under their oversight.

 

[Gforce9]

Earlier forms of Dispensational thought is what this sounds like to me. Followers of Darby and/or Schofield may have been missionaries there at some point. Christ is man's only hope; then and now. Any other view is a frontal assault to God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

[jambo]

The likes of Noah and the ark, the exodus and entry into Canaan etc although historical events are also types that point to Christ later on and any reading of the NT would show that Christ is the unique Saviour whose work is complete and sufficient for all who believe.

 

[Jack K]

It sounds hard-core dispensationalist, is all. I wouldn't go so far as to label it cultish; not based on what you've reported. The truth that salvation is and always has been found in Christ alone is an important one, though. And she may have had the premise that salvation is different in different eras so pounded into her head that teaching her otherwise will take much time and patience. Providentially, one of the best and easiest books about understanding dispensationalists is completely available, free, online. See if it helps you to understand her. Understanding Dispensationalists

 

[Bill The Baptist]

In addition to the resources posted above, I would also direct her to Hebrews chapter 11 and ask what her interpretation of this passage would be.

 

[Jimmy Eppley]

The church that I attend here is Presbyterian, but this isn't a Bible study through my church here. (Maybe that's also a problem) Rather it is through a minisrty. I entered the study with her thinking it was more along the lines of counseling, she has a MA from GCS. However, it quickly went into a Bible study, where she's claiming to disciple me. It's just a one-on-one meeting as well. There's a lot more that she has said. I should probably make a different thread because it's quite a lot. Basically, she claims that we must understand the parables to be fully saved. She points to many Scripture passages which she claims to back her up. She points to Matthew 13:44 and 1 Cor 2:7 as backing her up that we must attain this secret knowledge to receive full salvation. If anyone has not known that there is secret knowledge then God will not condem them. However, if one has received the true teachings, such as I currently am, then they are "screwed" if they reject it. My first though was gnosticism. Her organization also does not use any teaching material,but the Bible. ( as a friend pointed out, heretics always have said the same) There's so much more. All of this has made me see how shallow my Bible knowledge was. I feel like I merely have just known facts.

 

[KGP]

I'm glad to hear your discernment radar is working enough to know something is up. There are plenty of issues there for sure: must attain a secret knowledge for salvation; she is from a "ministry" and is claiming to disciple you; I'm not sure a woman ought to disciple men at all. So there are lots of things going on there that are strange, you would be wise to just find a godly man or men's group from a bible believing church and connect there.

 

[Rom]

It sounds hard-core dispensationalist, is all. I wouldn't go so far as to label it cultish; not based on what you've reported. The truth that salvation is and always has been found in Christ alone is an important one, though. And she may have had the premise that salvation is different in different eras so pounded into her head that teaching her otherwise will take much time and patience. Providentially, one of the best and easiest books about understanding dispensationalists is completely available, free, online. See if it helps you to understand her. Understanding Dispensationalists

If it were just that she were a dispensationalist, I'd agree - but even in his first post he said she claims that one must understand the parables to be saved. Sorry. That's cultish.

 

[clark thompson]

Salvation always came by faith in God's Word. Noah had faith in God's Word and built an ark, today God's Word is known as Jesus.

 

[KMK]

Glad to have you on the board, Jimmy!

Please fix your signature according to Board Rules. Check out the 'Signature Requirements' link under my own signature.

 

[Jimmy Eppley]

She said that after people die, they go to a place where they basically get a second chance because God is not unfair. She did admit it was basically like Purgatory. Her proof text was 1 Peter 3:19 The place that she talks about is for anyone who has not heard of the secrets of the parables, whether they be in the church or not. She was raised a Buddhist so I think that some of her concern for her relatives plays into her acceptance of this belief. She didn't make any of this up herself. She said that someone taught it to her as she's teaching it to me. So I guess that she wants me to do what she's doing. Her ministry is starting a Bible school. Currently, they have about 50 students. She's pressuring me to go. She claims to not use the teachings of men like the ancient Jews were, yet she herself is starting a school where they teach too. However, she always says that the words that she teaches aren't hers, but God's. She's merely a vessel. Would it be wise to just end contact with her or just flat out confront her about it? I have challenged her on some things and she seemed taken back by it.

 

[Edward]

we must attain this secret knowledge to receive full salvation.

She said that after people die, they go to a place where they basically get a second chance because God is not unfair. She did admit it was basically like Purgatory. Her proof text was 1 Peter 3:19 The place that she talks about is for anyone who has not heard of the secrets of the parables, whether they be in the church or not.

Don't walk away, RUN! Nothing beneficial is likely to come from dealing with this heretic.

 

[OneOfHisElect]

The Old Testament economy was in fact different than in the New. It was different in the way God delt with His people from a legal standpoint. There were laws and sacrifices that had to be maintained but these were all viewed in the same way that we view NT sanctification. Both are done from faith. The OT saints looked forward in faith to the cross work of Christ while the NT saints look back to it. In both cases, salvation is in Christ alone.

 

[Nomos]

Would it be wise to just end contact with her or just flat out confront her about it?

Hi Jimmy,

It would be wise to end contact with her and seek out a bible-believing church for discipleship and further training. Are you a part of a local church? If not, perhaps people here may be of benefit to you in finding one.

Blessings,
Ryan