Saved BECAUSE one believes.

[earl40]

Could you defend the preposition in the title?

 

[MW]

It could be defended on the basis of Aristotle's fourfold definition of "cause." But to the plain man it is not going to convey a clear message and naturally leaves a false impression. At the very least, more needs to be said by way of explanation and qualification.

 

[earl40]

It could be defended on the basis of Aristotle's fourfold definition of "cause." But to the plain man it is not going to convey a clear message and naturally leaves a false impression. At the very least, more needs to be said by way of explanation and qualification.

Would the qualification be that man is really not saved because he believes but when he believes? I am in a discussion with a person who denies the L and he is saying that faith is the reason one is saved. I suppose I phrased my post incorrectly in that I should have said...Man is saved by God alone and the reason, or because, is the death of Jesus and not ones faith. ERGO man is saved when one believes and not because they believe.

 

[MW]

Would the qualification be that man is really not saved because he believes but when he believes? I am in a discussion with a person who denies the L and he is saying that faith is the reason one is saved. I suppose I phrased my post incorrectly in that I should have said...Man is saved by God alone and the reason, or because, is the death of Jesus and not ones faith. ERGO man is saved when one believes and not because they believe.

We need to go a little farther and say something which includes the instrumentality of faith. Faith itself adds nothing to the salvation because it does nothing other than receive and rest upon the Saviour. Nevertheless, that receiving and resting is a necessary means of being saved.

 

[Pergamum]

The Belgic Confession, article 22:

Article 22: The Righteousness of Faith

We believe that for us to acquire the true knowledge of this great mystery the Holy Spirit kindles in our hearts a true faith that embraces Jesus Christ, with all his merits, and makes him its own, and no longer looks for anything apart from him.

For it must necessarily follow that either all that is required for our salvation is not in Christ or, if all is in him, then he who has Christ by faith has his salvation entirely.

Therefore, to say that Christ is not enough but that something else is needed as well is a most enormous blasphemy against God-- for it then would follow that Jesus Christ is only half a Savior. And therefore we justly say with Paul that we are justified "by faith alone" or by faith "apart from works."^53

However, we do not mean, properly speaking, that it is faith itself that justifies us-- for faith is only the instrument by which we embrace Christ, our righteousness.

But Jesus Christ is our righteousness in making available to us all his merits and all the holy works he has done for us and in our place. And faith is the instrument that keeps us in communion with him and with all his benefits.

When those benefits are made ours they are more than enough to absolve us of our sins.

^53 Rom. 3:28

 

[JM]

Excellent subject.

 

[earl40]

The Belgic Confession, article 22:



Therefore, to say that Christ is not enough but that something else is needed as well is a most enormous blasphemy against God-- for it then would follow that Jesus Christ is only half a Savior. And therefore we justly say with Paul that we are justified "by faith alone" or by faith "apart from works."^53

However, we do not mean, properly speaking, that it is faith itself that justifies us-- for faith is only the instrument by which we embrace Christ, our righteousness.

Here is where I am having a difficult time conveying that we are not saved BECAUSE we believe. For I do believe it may be improper to say "we are saved because we believe" as if I am not mistaken the confession may be pointing out. Correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Christ is the primary cause of our justification, faith is only a secondary cause. The latter follows from the former. God gives us all things, including faith and repentance, with Christ (Rom 8:32). We are justified by faith, yes, but we have our faith because of Christ. Therefore, our justification is ultimately dependent on Christ's work on the cross, not our faith.

Both of these statements are valid: "I'm saved because I believe," "I'm saved because Christ died for me." Both are necessary for salvation. But it can be a little misleading to use the same terminology because there is ONLY ONE primary cause, to which all other causes (secondary) are subordinate.

 

[smhbbag]

I'm still looking for the preposition in the thread title.

 

[Peairtach]

The Belgic Confession, article 22:


Therefore, to say that Christ is not enough but that something else is needed as well is a most enormous blasphemy against God-- for it then would follow that Jesus Christ is only half a Savior. And therefore we justly say with Paul that we are justified "by faith alone" or by faith "apart from works."^53

However, we do not mean, properly speaking, that it is faith itself that justifies us-- for faith is only the instrument by which we embrace Christ, our righteousness.

Here is where I am having a difficult time conveying that we are not saved BECAUSE we believe. For I do believe it may be improper to say "we are saved because we believe" as if I am not mistaken the confession may be pointing out. Correct me if I am wrong here.

We are justified by faith alone. Salvation is a broader concept than justification that includes adoption, regeneration and progressive sanctification, perfection and glorification.

 

[JP Wallace]

The saving power of faith resides thus not in itself, but in the Almighty Saviour on whom it rests. It is never on account of its formal nature as a psychic act that faith is conceived in Scripture to be saving,—as if this frame of mind or attitude of heart were itself a virtue with claims on God for reward, or at least especially pleasing to Him (either in its nature or as an act of obedience) and thus predisposing Him to favour, or as if it brought the soul into an attitude of receptivity or of sympathy with God, or opened a channel of communication from Him. It is not faith that saves, but faith in Jesus Christ: faith in any other saviour, or in this or that philosophy or human conceit (Col. 2:16, 18, 1 Tim. 4:1), or in any other gospel than that of Jesus Christ and Him as crucified (Gal. 1:8, 9), brings not salvation but a curse. It is not, strictly speaking, even faith in Christ that saves, but Christ that saves through faith. The saving power resides exclusively, not in the act of faith or the attitude of faith or the nature of faith, but in the object of faith; and in this the whole biblical representation centres, so that we could not more radically misconceive it than by transferring to faith even the smallest fraction of that saving energy which is attributed in the Scriptures solely to Christ Himself.

Biblical Doctrines, vol. 2 of The Works of Benjamin B. Warfield (New York: Oxford University Press, 1932; repr., Grand Rapids: Baker, 2000), 504.

 

[greenbaggins]

To piggy-back on Matthew's comment a bit, and to flesh out the Aristotelian approach to causality, the material cause of our salvation (that of which our salvation is MADE) is Christ; the formal cause (the plan) is God's decree. The efficient cause (that which brings it about) is the Holy Spirit working through the Word. The final cause (the goal) is God's glory. In this schema, faith fits in as an instrumental cause. The Holy Spirit brings it about in us in order to connect the efficient cause with the material cause. It is definitely a second-order cause in this schema.

 

[earl40]

I'm still looking for the preposition in the thread title.

The preposition, or presupposition , I am attempting to convey, to the person that does not believe in the L, is that God is not One Who basis His salvation of sinners based on faith. In other words, He is not a God of contingency.

Of course I understand that He is the Author of all contingency's. Where I am possibly getting tripped up on is that when we say we "receive" Jesus or "place" our trust in Him seems to be so.....Arminian. In other words, the contingency of us placing trust or receiving Jesus In my most humble opinion seems to say that faith is a work in order to be saved.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------

To piggy-back on Matthew's comment a bit, and to flesh out the Aristotelian approach to causality, the material cause of our salvation (that of which our salvation is MADE) is Christ; the formal cause (the plan) is God's decree. The efficient cause (that which brings it about) is the Holy Spirit working through the Word. The final cause (the goal) is God's glory. In this schema, faith fits in as an instrumental cause. The Holy Spirit brings it about in us in order to connect the efficient cause with the material cause. It is definitely a second-order cause in this schema.

No doubt the "second-order cause" is the key here. For there is no way God looks down the corridor of time at us believing in Him and have that as the base of our salvation. For He is the primary first cause of all secondary causes which includes us believing in Him.

 

[earl40]

Do we cause God to save us when we believe?

 

[py3ak]

Are you having flashbacks, Earl?

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/god-contingency-68855/

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/did-you-cause-Jesus-save-you-when-you-believed-66587/

 

[dudley]

We are saved when one believes in Jesus Christ alone as His savior and confesses that openly and is thus born again. The New Testament is quite clear in telling how we are to be saved. "Therefore having been justified by faith; we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ", declares Romans 5:1. Justification is the process used by God alone to erase someone's sins and to declare them righteous. Romans 5:1 is one verse of many stating this, by Him, everyone who believes is justified (Acts 13:39), "Who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification." (Romans 4:25). "Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith." (Galatians 3:24).
What justifies us? Scripture makes it quite clear. Faith does!
In fact, Romans 4 and Romans 5 are two excellent faith chapters. This faith is God's gift given to us, apart from anything we do; Ephesians 2:8 makes this clear, "For by (past tense) grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

I was having lunch with a Roman catholic staff member this week and I was mentioning the class we had when I was becoming a Presbyterian. I said I am saved on faith by grace and justification and our righteousness is not something I merited but a gift of God and by making an affirmation of faith and accepting Christ alone as my savior, I am saved. He had difficulty understanding me and then he ended with…. I hope I can earn heaven. It made me think how fortunate I am to now be a Protestant and understand that I am saved …I now think that was the root of my always being a “doubting Thomas“. I have found a saving Jesus and a loving heavenly Father I never know in the catholic church. I am happy I am now a Presbyterian…Catholicism is a mess of papist rules which transcend and distort the truth of salvation. I now think that is why I left the catholic church…I did not know what it was specifically but I felt a void as a catholic I do not feel that void as a Protestant and a Presbyterian.

 

[BobVigneault]

Rom. 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Y'all think too hard.

If you're going to nuance your answer to include all the background mechanics and doctrines, then nuance the question so that it asks for all the mechanics and doctrines. Otherwise, the simple proposition is validated by Romans 10:9,10.