Self-defense

[Honor]

if but in the situation where I had to shoot an attacker I would remember the saying "aim small miss small, aim big miss big" and I wouldn't aim for the heart or the head... I would aim for the crotch. it's more than likly not going to kill the guy (but then a gun shot wound anywhere has the potential of killing the person) but it would stop him in his tracks and he wouldn't be chasing after me and the kids after that.
I don't think you should be concerned about if you are going to kill the attacker but you should be more concered about him getting to you or your children. it says in the Bible if a man fails to provide for his family he's worse than an unbeliever.... I think that goes for providing protection not just food, clothing, and shelter.
I don't think that a person should wake up in the moring and going "man I hope somebody breaks in so I can kill them" but I think that a person should be comfortable with some level of violence where he wouldn't shriek at the duty to pull the trigger or throw the punch. does that make sense?

 

[Brian Withnell]

Well for example... Polycarp (I know there's lots of others). They came to execute him for his faith, and he gave his persecutors a meal before he left for the stake!

No offence, but you guys across the pond seem quite keen on your guns...

Do we really have the right to take another mans life? Under any circumstances?

It isn't a right to take a man's life, it is a duty to defend the innocent regardless of the consequences to the guilty. If the most effective means of defense is a sword, you use that; if the most effective means is a baseball bat, use that; if it is a gun, use it. The duty of a Christian to defend the innocent is just as right as the duty of a police officer to uphold the law, if not more so, for our duty is moral ... the duty implicit in the 6th commandment, while a police officer's duty is just professional.

Now as to Christian persecution, it might be duty to undergo persecution if it is by the authority, but Paul when accused appealed to Caesar rather than submit to persecution when he did not have to. Paul used his status as a Roman citizen several times to his defense. We need to be willing to submit to persecution, but we also need to be able to defend ourselves when we are able.

 

[LawrenceU]

if but in the situation where I had to shoot an attacker I would remember the saying "aim small miss small, aim big miss big" and I wouldn't aim for the heart or the head... I would aim for the crotch. it's more than likly not going to kill the guy (but then a gun shot wound anywhere has the potential of killing the person) but it would stop him in his tracks and he wouldn't be chasing after me and the kids after that.
I don't think you should be concerned about if you are going to kill the attacker but you should be more concered about him getting to you or your children. it says in the Bible if a man fails to provide for his family he's worse than an unbeliever.... I think that goes for providing protection not just food, clothing, and shelter.
I don't think that a person should wake up in the moring and going "man I hope somebody breaks in so I can kill them" but I think that a person should be comfortable with some level of violence where he wouldn't shriek at the duty to pull the trigger or throw the punch. does that make sense?

Jessica, I understand your thinking, but it is flawed. If you hit a man in the groin with a round it may or may not stop him. Especially if he is on drugs. If you are going to defend yourself with a firearm you must train to put rounds consistently, under pressure into instantly lethal areas: cranial (And not everywhere, I can fill you in in a PM if you like.) and thoracic hits only. I know this may sound macabre, but it is reality in using a fire arm.

 

[Brian Withnell]

if but in the situation where I had to shoot an attacker I would remember the saying "aim small miss small, aim big miss big" and I wouldn't aim for the heart or the head... I would aim for the crotch. it's more than likly not going to kill the guy (but then a gun shot wound anywhere has the potential of killing the person) but it would stop him in his tracks and he wouldn't be chasing after me and the kids after that.
I don't think you should be concerned about if you are going to kill the attacker but you should be more concered about him getting to you or your children. it says in the Bible if a man fails to provide for his family he's worse than an unbeliever.... I think that goes for providing protection not just food, clothing, and shelter.
I don't think that a person should wake up in the moring and going "man I hope somebody breaks in so I can kill them" but I think that a person should be comfortable with some level of violence where he wouldn't shriek at the duty to pull the trigger or throw the punch. does that make sense?

I might offer some small advice on where to aim ... if you have a man that you are holding at gunpoint, the crotch is a perfect place to aim. Someone running at you will stop running if you break their pelvis (they will literally not be able to stand) and it has a psychological effect on a male that is just undeniable. If you are trying to stop someone, who is at enough distance (21 feet) then 2 to the body (chest) and one to the head is a better way to aim for an initial plan to stop. If two to the body does not seem to slow them, they might be wearing body armor, and the one to the head (if you can fire accurately) will. Of course if they are still distant enough, then two to the chest, two to the groin (or the hip at the joint with the thigh) would be useful.

That of course is a single attacker, not multiple attackers. I personally would do "everybody gets shot once before anybody gets shot twice" as a tactical decision if there is no cover from which to fire.

 

[LawrenceU]

Brian, I agree with the groin shot, but only if you are firing a large calibre handgun or a shotgun; and only if you can place it where it will strike the pelvis squarely. Many women, and some men, carry small calibre handguns. A pelvis shot with one of these can be very much a gamble. A centre thoracic shot or a shot into the "T" is always the best shot to take if it is possible.

Also, perp defense attorneys love non-lethal shootings. They often successfully argue that because the person being attacked did not have to kill their client the shooting was unjustified. This happens more often than you would think. The results are disastrous for the real victim.

 

[Honor]

thanks for the advice Lawrence, I see your point. FTR I don't carry a concealed wepons permit. so.... idk.. but I am def. open to suggestions and advice

 

[Edward]

I would aim for the crotch.

In most states you should never shoot to wound.

 

[TimV]

It's a 5 foot tall lady who's never shot a mammal, gents, let alone a person!!!

Aim center mass. Chest. Pull trigger until nothing else comes out.

 

[Bern]

In a situation where you witness someone being attacked in the street, how do you know the one being assaulted is really the innocent party? Do you assume they are just because you only saw the other guy attack first? What if the "victim" had stolen the other guys wallet? Do you step in?

 

[Susanna]

Maria,

Interesting question. There's lots to consider with the specifics of what to do when.
Does he have a weapon? What type? Does he already have a grip on you? Is he drunk? Etc. I've studied Uechi-ryu karate do, Aikido, various kobudo in the martial arts for YEARS. I've taken SEVERAL women's self-defense classes and can tell you,

whatever he dishes out,
you turn it around and use it right back on him in order to stop him.

If he says he's going to kill me or I think he's going to
(and I'm level headed under attack),

I'd allow him to die.

It was his choice.

However, with that said, there's so many ways to stop an attack that RARELY would extreme for be required.

Sue

-----Added 11/21/2009 at 05:59:35 EST-----

I meant "extreme force" would be required ...

-----Added 11/21/2009 at 06:00:14 EST-----

aaaah "would NOT" ... I'm new. Will I get booted for that, Randy?

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Maria,

Interesting question. There's lots to consider with the specifics of what to do when.
Does he have a weapon? What type? Does he already have a grip on you? Is he drunk? Etc. I've studied Uechi-ryu karate do, Aikido, various kobudo in the martial arts for YEARS. I've taken SEVERAL women's self-defense classes and can tell you,

whatever he dishes out,
you turn it around and use it right back on him in order to stop him.

If he says he's going to kill me or I think he's going to
(and I'm level headed under attack),

I'd allow him to die.

It was his choice.

However, with that said, there's so many ways to stop an attack that RARELY would extreme for be required.

Sue

-----Added 11/21/2009 at 05:59:35 EST-----

I meant "extreme force" would be required ...

-----Added 11/21/2009 at 06:00:14 EST-----

aaaah "would NOT" ... I'm new. Will I get booted for that, Randy?

Grammatical errors from a school teacher are prohibited. LOL Better not spell anything incorrectly either.

 

[TimV]

That's how we roll.

 

[Brian Withnell]

Brian, I agree with the groin shot, but only if you are firing a large calibre handgun or a shotgun; and only if you can place it where it will strike the pelvis squarely. Many women, and some men, carry small calibre handguns. A pelvis shot with one of these can be very much a gamble. A centre thoracic shot or a shot into the "T" is always the best shot to take if it is possible.

Also, perp defense attorneys love non-lethal shootings. They often successfully argue that because the person being attacked did not have to kill their client the shooting was unjustified. This happens more often than you would think. The results are disastrous for the real victim.

Understood. If I ever wind up in court, the company I take training from will be there to testify (it is part of the contract) and they are the ones that have given me the instruction on how to stop someone. They also recommend no smaller than 9mm or .38 special as a power floor. The other thing they state is don't stop until the attacker is stopped. Two to the chest, two to the groin, then head shot is a standard I was drilled on (and we practiced). The idea is to stop the attacker with the chest shots, if that doesn't slow them down, groin shots tend to work well (at the hip even better if you are really good) and head shot if that does not work.

The legal aspect of being sued, or worse yet being criminally charged, because you used something other than a fatal shot to stop the attack is somewhat short-circuited if you follow a course of fire that you were trained in and carried out. It is especially useful if you have the trainer as an expert witness in court (the trainer I used has often been) and he states you followed the course of fire he taught you to take. Pulls the rug out from under the prosecuting attorney if you have had the training and followed it.

Which is another really good reason to get professional training. If you ever are in a fire-fight, the chances are you are going to be in a court room fight afterward. Having the ability to state, and have it clearly documented, that you did as you were trained, is really taking the justification for questioning why you used the course of fire you used out of "you were reckless" into "you were well trained and followed your training." Just having the guy be there to analyze the evidence can be invaluable. A good 8 hour first course is usually just a couple of hundred dollars, getting a follow-up is about the same, and going to a 3 day advanced course can be just a couple of hundred a day. For about a $1000 dollars, you can get training that is near invaluable in terms of being able to defend yourself and your family, get a document trail that shows you are not a loose cannon that just shoots at anything that moves, and get someone that can be a witness in the unlikely event that you ever have to use that training. Given that you probably need to be putting 50 rounds down-range several times a month to keep training sharp, it is a cheap cost of being prepared.

-----Added 11/21/2009 at 08:28:45 EST-----

It's a 5 foot tall lady who's never shot a mammal, gents, let alone a person!!!

Aim center mass. Chest. Pull trigger until nothing else comes out.

The lady ought get herself to a range and practice with silhouettes on a regular basis. There is no excuse for not preparing for war before the battle begins. Both my wife and I have put thousands of rounds down range, and while we have not done as much as we might, we do so every chance we get.