Session accountability

[Presbaptist]

My question is: who is a local session accountable to? Let me paint a hypothetical situation.

Wife joins church A. Husband is not a member of church A. Wife brings accusations against husband. Church A encourages wife to file for separation without hearing husband side of story. Husband appeals to the church leadership but leadership will not change viewpoint that wife can file for separation. What if the session is in the wrong? Can husband go to the Presbytery to appeal?

For all my Reformed Baptist friends out there, who is a local church elders accountable to?

 

[Ploutos]

Just out of curiosity, are these purely hypothetical situations, or are they happening to you or someone you know?

Also, please note that the board rules require a real name to be included in your signature. I myself prefer a certain amount of privacy and nobody here is telling you that you have to go above and beyond the requirements - but a real identifier is a minimum requirement.

If you have reasons for wanting your posts guarded with an extra layer of discretion, then you should a) post in a members-only forum, b) ask in the elder/pastor forum, c) privately message an admin and ask for advice from the board staff. If these are real situations involving you, however, be aware that they will in no uncertain terms stress the limits of their authority and counsel upon hearing one side of a story, and of the importance of respect and submission for church authority and discipline.

For me, personally, situations like this are one reason I believe in the importance of denominations and church courts.

 

[RamistThomist]

My question is: who is a local session accountable to? Let me paint a hypothetical situation.

Wife joins church A. Husband is not a member of church A. Wife brings accusations against husband. Church A encourages wife to file for separation without hearing husband side of story. Husband appeals to the church leadership but leadership will not change viewpoint that wife can file for separation. What if the session is in the wrong? Can husband go to the Presbytery to appeal?

For all my Reformed Baptist friends out there, who is a local church elders accountable to?

As a hypothetical situation, there is no "one" answer. Most presbyterian denominations require the clerk of the session to submit minutes on a yearly basis.

I guess the husband could appeal to presbytery, but it is going to take a while.

 

[Presbaptist]

Just out of curiosity, are these purely hypothetical situations, or are they happening to you or someone you know?

Also, please note that the board rules require a real name to be included in your signature. I myself prefer a certain amount of privacy and nobody here is telling you that you have to go above and beyond the requirements - but a real identifier is a minimum requirement.

If you have reasons for wanting your posts guarded with an extra layer of discretion, then you should a) post in a members-only forum, b) ask in the elder/pastor forum, c) privately message an admin and ask for advice from the board staff. If these are real situations involving you, however, be aware that they will in no uncertain terms stress the limits of their authority and counsel upon hearing one side of a story, and of the importance of respect and submission for church authority and discipline.

For me, personally, situations like this are one reason I believe in the importance of denominations and church courts.

Hypothetical. I could multiple examples.

The point of the question is who is a local session accountable to? With Congregationalism, it seems like there are no checks and balances. But I want to know, especially if anything is written on the topic.

Any Congregationalist want to weigh in on their perspective?

 

[jwithnell]

If the husband is not a member of the church, the church nor any of its courts would have any authority over him. It would be like going to the Alabama Supreme Court and asking it to intervene in a Georgia neighborhood dispute.

 

[MarrowMan]

Presbyterian sessions are accountable to Presbyteries. However, at least in the RPCNA, non-members have no standing to avail themselves of the church courts.

In this situation, real or hypothetical, there would need to be a member or an elder of the RPCNA to take up the cause of the husband.

 

[SolaScriptura]

In the words of Judge Dredd, “I didn’t break the law… I *AM* the law!”

 

[Alan D. Strange]

@Presbaptist

To put it in terms that our Books of Discipline in our Books of Church Order put it, a husband without membership in the church is not under its jurisdiction and thus has no standing either to bring a complaint against the local session (and appeal a denial of such to presbytery) or to file any charges in the matter.

The church has no obligation to hear him because he has made no commitment to it through a credible profession of faith and its accompanying membership vows. There is nothing unfair about this. He may, as you intimate happened in the hypothetical, make some appeal to said local session and argue that his wife has no proper grounds for divorce. However, the session's disposition of these matters is not something he can appeal beyond the local body, for he is not a part of the church, subject to its judgment.

What if the church is manifestly wrong? Members of the church could take up the case, as noted. And If they recorded in sessional minutes that she could divorce her unbelieving husband because he did not get her chocolates and roses on Valentine's Day, then the presbytery, in reading the minutes, as Jacob notes, should call them to account for basing their decision on manifestly improper grounds.

However, it is unlikely that the session would put something in the minutes that could not be defended on biblical and confessional grounds. He's outside the church, and communicating with the session is all he can do. He has no ecclesiastical legal recourse beyond the help of others or the general oversight of the presbytery. Again, nothing at all unfair about any of this (I'm sure that he thinks/feels that there is something unfair about it since it goes against his view of the matter).

Peace,
Alan

 

[Semper Fidelis]

There are provisions for investigation regarding scandal in the PCA BCO:

33-1. Process against all church members, other than ministers of the Gospel, shall be entered before the Session of the church to which such members belong, except in cases of appeal. However, if the Session refuses to act in doctrinal cases or instances of public scandal and two other Sessions of churches in the same Presbytery request the Presbytery of which the church is a member to initiate proper or appropriate action in a case of process and thus assume jurisdiction and authority, the Presbytery shall do so.

In the hypothetical, if two other Churches in the Presbytery considered the Session's actions scandalous, they could have it investigated.

Also, if the Presbytery reviewed records and saw that the Session acted un-biblically, then that is another means.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Honestly, *anyone* who listens to ONE SIDE - no matter how "clear cut" it may be - and then prescribe a dramatic course of action (such as giving tacit approval to divorce) is grossly negligent and dangerous.

I figured that out when I was a new chaplain, woman came in tears about how her husband was hitting her and wouldn't give her access to the couples' finances... I still had a working white knight impulse, so I rushed to her aid... and made calls, got that man on the very precipice of being thrown in jail... and discovered that it was ALL A LIE and everything she'd said was a complete fabrication. I was stunned. By the 20th time - yes, I learn slow - I was straight up manipulated by tears and a story, I was finally able to summarily execute that white knight within me. And that was when I started being able to actually help people.

 

[Ploutos]

I figured that out when I was a new chaplain, woman came in tears about how her husband was hitting her and wouldn't give her access to the couples' finances... I still had a working white knight impulse, so I rushed to her aid... and made calls, got that man on the very precipice of being thrown in jail... and discovered that it was ALL A LIE and everything she'd said was a complete fabrication. I was stunned. By the 20th time - yes, I learn slow - I was straight up manipulated by tears and a story, I was finally able to summarily execute that white knight within me. And that was when I started being able to actually help people.

Glad you weren't my pastor or chaplain lol. Also glad you didn't actually land someone in jail.