I guess I am just seeing that "reason" is something that some of my Lutheran brothers aren't interested in. And they seem to think that I am in the business of making "reason" into just another form of Idolatry. I am trying to understand how they refuse to accept Limited Atonement. Why is it that they don't want to connect the dots? I know they will say to me Scripture alone Scott, and Not Scripture + your reason..... We fundementally believe different and there cannot be any unity whatsoever. I thought that Luther believed in Original sin. What is the difference between the doctrine of Original Sin and what is called Total Depravity? If Luther believed in Total Depravity how is it that these Lutherans can reject the Gospel, how do they give their "free will" that much power? Anyway they are kindof drivin me crazy
Some of their comments to me..........
It is more beneficial to believe the promises of God than to worry about being elect. God has kept his foreknowledge (of who will be saved and who will not) secret for his own wisdom and has not revealed anything regarding it to us in his Word (much less commanded us to inquire into it with our own speculations) but instead earnestly warned against such inquiry (SEE ROM 11:33), we should not pursue the matter with our own speculations. We should not make our own deductions, form conclusions, or brood about this matter, but instead we should cling to His revealed Word to which He directs us. (Formula of Concord, SD, XI, 55)
“The eternal election of God should be considered in Christ and not apart from or outside of Christ” see Eph 1:4 Notice that in the Scriptures when men are saved, grace (unmerited favor of God) is always the cause. Men have done nothing to earn salvation. But when men are condemned, the actions of man are mentioned. AFFIRMED is SINGLE PREDESTINATION! It is important to recognize and make sure that a distinction is made between God’s foreknowledge and preordination (election). Foreknowledge– God sees and knows everything before it happens. - This applies to all creatures, good and evil. - Mt 10:29; Ps 139:16; Isa 37:28 - God’s foreknowledge is not the cause of evil, for evil is caused by the perverted will of the devil and human beings. (Hos 13:9) - God has indeed known and determined for every believer the time and hour of calling and conversion. Because this has not been revealed to us, we must obey his command always to cling to the Word and to commend the time and hour to God (Acts 1:7) Eternal Election of God- Predestination, or preordination to salvation - This applies only to the children of God, who are chosen and predestined to eternal life. (Eph 1:4)
- This not only foresees and foreknows the salvation of the elect but is also a cause of our salvation and whatever pertains to it, on the basis of the good and gracious will and good pleasure of God in Christ Jesus. How this plays out in time:- God knows that evil will take place in time, but not in such a way that it was God’s will that it take place. - God sees the wicked wills of men and the devil, and in his foreknowledge He sets limits and boundaries for the evil which God does not will. - The evil is used for good. No one should consider this eternal election or God’s preordination to eternal life merely as the secret, inscrutable will or counsel of God, as if it had nothing more to it and nothing more to consider than that God perceived beforehand who and how many would be saved and who and how many would be damned. (Formula of Concord, SD, XI, 8) -
This kind of view (double-predestination) creates strange and harmful ideas. - Double predestination creates either false security or despair. o False security breeds impenitence which damns. Despair is never faithful and trusting in God, so it also damns. To counter this false teaching of “Double-Predestination”, I say along with the Formula of Concord XI that all Scripture is written by God for reproof, correction, and for improvement, not to drive us to despair but to create faith and hope in us. Single predestination is the Biblical way of doing just that.
When discussing predestination, we should make sure we are dealing with the revealed Will of God, as found in Jesus Christ, not in the hidden counsels of the Trinity or in the hidden foreknowledge of God. We should focus on God’s counsel, intention, and preordination in Jesus Christ is revealed through the word. -
Here is the problem with making the “formal principle” of theology the “Sovereignity of God” as Calvin and his followers do. It cause them to look at God in His nakedness, which leads to all kinds of idea and conjecture, which has not basis in truth and only leads people astray. - The way we look at God is as He has revealed Himself to us in Christ. This is why justification by grace through faith is so important to all aspects of theology. Without that, we don’t have anything to even theologize about! Without justification, we are diving into an area of unknown space where there is no solid truth or basis for faith.
SALVATION IS PREDESTINED, DAMNATION IS FOREKNOWN, there is a big difference. - This also causes a big difference in how God is viewed. (Do we look at God as revealed, or as we have wandered into the hidden God, the God we cannot see and conjectured?) - Matt 22:14 many called but few chosen. A lot of the problem here is the view of man: Calvin, and his followers believe that man is absolutely bound in all things to the Sovereign will of God. If man is elect, then he cannot fall away into condemnation. Arminians take the opposite view that man is completely free in all things and makes up his mind as he goes. Lutherans affirm that in spiritual matters, man is bound to the wicked, and only the Holy Spirit can create saving faith and free man from evil bondage. Man has the ability to reject the Gospel. Many OT examples could be listed of people being able to resist the Word of God. This doesn’t mean that the Word wasn’t meant for them, or else why would they be hearing it? It would be a waste of a prophets time to speak a message meant for another audience to a certain people.
