Subjectivism and confessionalism

Status
Not open for further replies.

caJosue

Puritan Board Freshman
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?
 
The Papists are merely unified in their heresies. I would rather disagree with Particular Baptist brethren who have the true gospel than be unified in following that man of sin, the antichrist.
 
Modern pop Catholic epistemology follows an extreme form of Cartesian skepticism: without x, how can you possibly be absolutely certain that you are right? In other words, your interpretive faculties aren't sufficient to understand the faith without the Magisterium. That raises the question: how can I trust my interpretive faculties to understand the magisterium?
 
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?
…but…who is the infallible interpreter of the Pope?
 
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?
We don't trust the Reformed tradition. We trust God.

The Scriptures are actual revelation from God--objective revelation. They are perspicuous in themselves, and we are given the Holy Spirit to aid us in understanding. In all of this, we are wholly dependent on God. We don't put our trust in institutions, traditions, or our own mental faculties. Let God be true, and every man a liar.
 
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?
Hello brother,

To become a papist someone has to interpret data by himself. Nobody converts to Rome just because the Pope says "be converted, I'm the infallible interpreter of revelation". So this pretended epistemological problem works against papists as well as Protestants.

Then you have the same interpretative difficulties in Rome. You have traditional, conservative and progressist Roman Catholics. Who is the true one? Who is the most faithful to the Magisterium? Who decides which are the magisterial documents and how to interpret them?
 
Roman Catholics do not have an infallible commentary in their bookcases, which has been explicitly approved by popes or councils. This means their theologians are just as capable of debating questions like whether Adam had a navel as we are. If differing opinions on such matters constitute subjectivism, then Catholics are not exempt from it either.

When it comes to doctrine, however, we believe that which is necessary for salvation is clearly laid out in Scripture. This is because God is not a God of confusion. We also believe that Scripture interprets itself, meaning our interpretation must align with God’s intended meaning, as revealed through His Word.

When we adhere to a specific confession, it’s because we find its teachings rooted in Scripture, not simply because a particular saint or church leader wrote it. If we encounter others who hold a different confession, their beliefs might still align with ours, and in such cases, there’s no issue. However, when differences arise in life and doctrine, it stems from our sinful nature—either through blindness to what Scripture clearly teaches or a willful disregard for God’s Word in favor of our own sinful desires.

Roman Catholics may only have a valid argument if Scripture does not come from God and is treated like any other human text. But we believe otherwise.

Moreover, we hold to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer, trusting that He guides us into all truth. We also believe that Christ’s sheep hear His voice and follow Him. Therefore, regardless of how many sects or denominations exist, we do not need a magisterium because we have the Good Shepherd.

In essence, modern Roman Catholics, by lowering the Word of God to a mere human level and implying that Christ and the Holy Spirit are insufficient to guide His people, are practicing a subtle form of atheism.
 
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?

This is an old philosophical problem, as Jacob alluded to. It basically says that without a firm foundation for all of our knowledge we can't be sure of any of it. Like math, 1+1=2 right? We have a complete arithmetic that is absolutely true no matter what, but that's not true either. So what do we do now?
Don't get hung up on the math example but I only bring it up to show that even in the one place that we would expect to find absolute TRUTH we can't. So do we reject certainty? Well as Jacob pointed out only if we are operating under that Cartesian sort of knowing.
But as others have pointed out even the RCC has this problem. The Magisterium can and does change, despite what they say. They have slippery words to describe it in ways that make it sound different than it is.
So they have the same problems everyone else has but only if that Cartesian model is correct. There's no shortage of criticisms on why that's wrong (the Cartesian model), so what do we do? Well, accepting that we are finite/sinful creatures and will never be without error in our theology (or anything else) there is another route.
The Bible is the objective word of God to finite/sinful men and women. It is that absolutely inerrant and infallible revelation of God to human beings. Therefore it's authority is self attesting because it needs no other foundation for it's own authority, no human institution.
Now human (read finite/sinful humans here) interpretations can and have been wrong before but we have tradition as an inferior and subordinate authority to scripture. That makes us different than Catholics and superior.
We can and should change our Confessions if they are wrong but that's a very hard process (and it should be) . We don't need slippery words to hide what we're doing, like Catholics, because we're honest and upfront about the finite/sinful situation we're in. Also we're honest about the trail of authority, the self-attesting scripture to the subordinate creeds and confessions, to the subordinate theological tradition judged by our church courts to be in accord with Scripture and the Creeds and Confessions.
But the faith didn't fall out of heaven here and now. We have a history of finite/sinful men who have studied the Word and mined it for a theology that we know can be true. But how do we judge them? Well the church courts judge them within the denominations in the same fashion. We accept the confession as being true in it's interpretation of Scripture (the one self-attesting foundation for truth) , so our courts judge teachings against that and in our Confessions.
So you see the levels of authority laid out for us. The self-attesting scriptures first. Than the Creeds and Confessions being finite/sinful interpretations of the scriptures. Then below that our theological tradition, judged against both by our church courts. That's a lot, if anything doesn't make sense then ask. But think about this, is this practically even a problem?
The RCC in theory is different than us because tradition is equal (but actually superior) to Scripture and like Scripture can't change, but it does. So they're taking out both sides of their mouth because they are stuck in that Cartesian model warts and all. We have a superior model that moves from God to the Scriptures, to the Creeds and Confessions, to our tradition judged by the courts of the church against both.
 
I wonder why they can't show us an complete list of infallible papal statements and dogmatic definitions? It's almost as if reading and applying church documents requires...subjective private judgment...
You would still need more infallible interpretations of those documents lest you fall prey to your own fallible private judgment.
 
Just remember that the Reformed Confessions never argue that "this Church" functions as a Magisterium. The supreme judge to settle all controversies is the Spirit speaking to the Church through the Scriptures.
 
Just remember that the Reformed Confessions never argue that "this Church" functions as a Magisterium. The supreme judge to settle all controversies is the Spirit speaking to the Church through the Scriptures.
Yes. Ministerial not magisterial.
 
I have encountered this criticism on multiple occasions: the Protestant paradigm of Scripture leads to an inevitable subjectivism, where ultimately the individual decides on a whim what he or she wants to believe.

I always thought that adhering to a confessional tradition avoided this problem, after all you adhere to the articles of some confession that is not strictly up to you, but to trained teachers whom you can trust to correctly interpret the Scriptures, even on subjects you have not studied. You have a “magisterium”.

But why trust the Reformed tradition to have the truth, rather than trusting the Lutheran, Anglican, Orthodox, or Roman Catholic tradition? Doesn't that lead to subjectivism as well? There are always eternal exegetical debates between all these camps. Every answer has a counter-answer, practically ad-infinitum, and if so, is there any objective reason to decide between one or the other? The romanists say yes, “the pope”, what do we have?
This is part of the argument that Mark Noll makes in Civil War as Theological Crisis. He walks through a solid assessment of the effects of early evangelism on the protestant church but concludes, in part, we'd would be much better off if we embraced the "one true" interpretation of the Roman church.
 
Romanism aside, I know a brother who staunchly advocates that Calvinism is nigh-on a damnnable heresy and that confessionalism beyond the early creeds are unreliable as ‘how would we know which one to choose to hold to being so many in number’ ie between Heidelberg, Begic, WCF & so on
 
Romanism aside, I know a brother who staunchly advocates that Calvinism is nigh-on a damnnable heresy and that confessionalism beyond the early creeds are unreliable as ‘how would we know which one to choose to hold to being so many in number’ ie between Heidelberg, Begic, WCF & so on
What a bummer! The historic Reformed and Presbyterian confessions and catechisms are compatible, though they may differ in area of emphasis (which reflects theological development and the context in which they are penned). It sounds like this fellow's first problem is a denial of the doctrines of grace found in Scripture itself. That's where his beef is. The confessions and catechisms are so clearly Scriptural in basis that it's silly to refute them. Honestly, I'm surprised he accepts the ecumenical creeds! Usually these are the signs of rabid biblicism. Ironically, like the Sadducees of old, their biblicism is so very fraught with anti-Scriptural and man-ish thought.
 
Peter the supposed first of the Papacy denied Jesus. He was fallible. He was divided against Paul (Gal 2). I stand with human fallibility than to stand with fictional infallibility.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top