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These articles were very disheartening to me. Anyone with advice on what I should do, please feel free to share it.
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing
I have never come to a full acceptance of paedo-baptism so I am still studying and praying for conviction on one of them.
I have never come to a full acceptance of paedo-baptism so I am still studying and praying for conviction on one of them.
Are you referring to the UMC's mis-understanding of infant baptism or the reformed doctrine of covenant baptism?
Are you referring to the UMC's mis-understanding of infant baptism or the reformed doctrine of covenant baptism?
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "mis-understanding"?
I mean any form of infant baptism. I am having trouble accepting it.
Methodists believe that baptism (even infant baptism) conveys a form of prevenient grace upon the child thereby removing the stain of original sin and enabling them to be more open to accepting the gospel.
Within the Methodist tradition, baptism has long been a subject of much concern, even controversy. John Wesley retained the sacramental theology which he received from his Anglican heritage. He taught that in baptism a child was cleansed of the guilt of original sin, initiated into the covenant with God, admitted into the church, made an heir of the divine kingdom, and spiritually born anew. He said that while baptism was neither essential to nor sufficient for salvation, it was the "ordinary means" that God designated for applying the benefits of the work of Christ in human lives.
Here is an excerpt from "By Water and the Spirit: A United Methodist Understanding of Baptism" which I understand to be the "official" position paper for the UMC on baptism.
Within the Methodist tradition, baptism has long been a subject of much concern, even controversy. John Wesley retained the sacramental theology which he received from his Anglican heritage. He taught that in baptism a child was cleansed of the guilt of original sin, initiated into the covenant with God, admitted into the church, made an heir of the divine kingdom, and spiritually born anew. He said that while baptism was neither essential to nor sufficient for salvation, it was the "ordinary means" that God designated for applying the benefits of the work of Christ in human lives.
I was involved with a UMC for a few years of my life and that is the very same type of explanation I was given by the Pastor and elders of the church I was attending. I also understand that not all UMC churches hold to identical understandings on this issue and while I don't entirely disagree with them on every point of their understanding of baptism, I do believe that it is a mis-understanding. If I am wrong in this I am always open to correction.
The Baptismal Covenant. In both the Old and New Testaments, God enters into covenant relationship with God's people. A covenant involves promises and responsibilities of both parties; it is instituted through a special ceremony and expressed by a distinguishing sign. By covenant God constituted a servant community of the people of Israel, promising to be their God and giving them the Law to make clear how they were to live. The circumcision of male infants is the sign of this covenant (Genesis 17:1-14; Exodus 24:1-12). In the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God fulfilled the prophecy of a new covenant and called forth the church as a servant community (Jeremiah 31:31-34; 1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The baptism of infants and adults, both male and female, is the sign of this covenant.
Therefore, United Methodists identify our ritual for baptism as "The Services of the Baptismal Covenant" (The United Methodist Hymnal, pages 32-54). In baptism the church declares that it is bound in covenant to God; through baptism new persons are initiated into that covenant. The covenant connects God, the community of faith, and the person being baptized; all three are essential to the fulfillment of the baptismal covenant. The faithful grace of God initiates the covenant relationship and enables the community and the person to respond with faith.
The claim that baptism is unrepeatable rests on the steadfast faithfulness of God. God's initiative establishes the covenant of grace into which we are incorporated in baptism. By misusing our God-given freedom, we may live in neglect or defiance of that covenant, but we cannot destroy God's love for us. When we repent and return to God, the covenant does not need to be remade, because God has always remained faithful to it. What is needed is renewal of our commitment and reaffirmation of our side of the covenant.
(emphasis mine)The United Methodist Book of Discipline (2004) defines prevenient grace as "...the divine love that surrounds all humanity and precedes any and all of our conscious impulses. This grace prompts our first wish to please God, our first glimmer of understanding concerning God's will, and our 'first slight transient conviction' of having sinned against God. God's grace also awakens in us an earnest longing for deliverance from sin and death and moves us toward repentance and faith."
(emphasis mine)Why Baptize Babies?
From the earliest times, children and infants were baptized and included in the church. As scriptural authority for this ancient tradition, some scholars cite Jesus’ words, “Let the little children come to me…for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs” (Mark 10:14). However, a more consistent argument is that baptism, as a means of grace, signifies God’s initiative in the process of salvation. John Wesley preached “prevenient grace,” the grace that works in our lives before we are aware of it, bringing us to faith. The baptism of children and their inclusion in the church before they can respond with their own confirmation of faith is a vivid and compelling witness to prevenient grace.
United Methodists believe that these sign-acts are special means of grace. The ritual action of a sacrament does not merely point to God's presence in the world, but also participates in it and becomes a vehicle for conveying that reality. God's presence in the sacraments is real, but it must be accepted by human faith if it is to transform human lives. The sacraments do not convey grace either magically or irrevocably, but they are powerful channels through which God has chosen to make grace available to us. Wesley identified baptism as the initiatory sacrament by which we enter into the covenant with God and are admitted as members of Christ's church.
Like I posted above, I agree with much that is stated, however you cannot remove the elements of prevenient grace throughout the entire document. Let me also preface anything hereafter with what I understand "prevenient" grace to be.
(emphasis mine)The United Methodist Book of Discipline (2004) defines prevenient grace as "...the divine love that surrounds all humanity and precedes any and all of our conscious impulses. This grace prompts our first wish to please God, our first glimmer of understanding concerning God's will, and our 'first slight transient conviction' of having sinned against God. God's grace also awakens in us an earnest longing for deliverance from sin and death and moves us toward repentance and faith."
Therefore I understand the UMC's teaching on "prevenient" grace to be an enabling grace that allows the sinner to then "choose" to place their faith in Christ. (Once again, I'm open to correction on this)
Furthermore, this explanation is also given on the UMC's official website under the section of the Overview of Baptism:
(emphasis mine)Why Baptize Babies?
From the earliest times, children and infants were baptized and included in the church. As scriptural authority for this ancient tradition, some scholars cite Jesus’ words, “Let the little children come to me…for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs” (Mark 10:14). However, a more consistent argument is that baptism, as a means of grace, signifies God’s initiative in the process of salvation. John Wesley preached “prevenient grace,” the grace that works in our lives before we are aware of it, bringing us to faith. The baptism of children and their inclusion in the church before they can respond with their own confirmation of faith is a vivid and compelling witness to prevenient grace.
Here is another example as well from the above article:
United Methodists believe that these sign-acts are special means of grace. The ritual action of a sacrament does not merely point to God's presence in the world, but also participates in it and becomes a vehicle for conveying that reality. God's presence in the sacraments is real, but it must be accepted by human faith if it is to transform human lives. The sacraments do not convey grace either magically or irrevocably, but they are powerful channels through which God has chosen to make grace available to us. Wesley identified baptism as the initiatory sacrament by which we enter into the covenant with God and are admitted as members of Christ's church.
I understand the author here again to be pointing to a "grace that goes before" that is signified in the baptism of an infant. I don't find this in agreement with the reformed understanding of covenant baptism. Although it mimics it in several ways, it is very distinct and should be understood as different from the historical reformed position.
(Thanks for the dialogue again, brother!)
I probably live less than 2 hours away from you. However, I'm not very familiar with the churches up your way. (Is the church on the Founders list you mention in Liberty? By "town" are you referring to McComb?) I have some Calvinistic Baptist friends on the MS Gulf Coast that may know more. Not every Calvinistic Baptist church is on the Founders list for one reason or another.
I probably live less than 2 hours away from you. However, I'm not very familiar with the churches up your way. (Is the church on the Founders list you mention in Liberty? By "town" are you referring to McComb?) I have some Calvinistic Baptist friends on the MS Gulf Coast that may know more. Not every Calvinistic Baptist church is on the Founders list for one reason or another.
The Founders Ministry church is the one in Liberty, New Salem Baptist Church. Yes by town I am referring to Mccomb. I am looking for any Calvinist Baptist churches in my county (Pike) or would consider any in the neighboring counties ( Lincoln or Amite) if they are somewhat close to me. If your friends know of anything up this way that would be great. I am also considering the PCA church in town as well but I want to know all of my options. Thanks.