I listened to the entire podcast. I will preface my response by saying I have never studied at Seminary, but I have read my bible and memorised 1 John up to 1 John 3
Jon from Theocast's central claims are that 1. PW is pointing people to an unbiblical test and 2. that he is causing genuine Christians to doubt their salvation & 3. The bible teaches that Believers can be very sinful.
1. PW's position on 1 John is that it keeps teaching us that we can test if we are in Christ by the presence or lack of fruit in our lives. Jon argues that these texts are written to condemn false teachers, not to give believers a test for their faith. He says that these false teachers claimed to be sinless, but were full of sins. He also appeals to 1 John 3:19-24 to claim that THE test of our salvation is if we obey the commandment to believe. He uses this text to say that other texts in 1 John don't teach that we can test faith by works.
I would agree that Jon (from theocast) interprets 1 John 3:19-24 correctly, but this doesn't prove that Paul Washer is misinterpreting the other texts in 1 John. The Apostle John gives us multiple tests, including both the presence of fruit and the presence of faith. Look at 1 John 2:1-5, this text clearly teaches that obedience proves "knowing Christ". Jon wants to say it is written to expose false teachers but verse 3 says "And by this
WE know that
WE have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. (ESV)" From the context "We" refers to believers. For further proof that John teaches fruit proves we are in Christ, look at John 15:8.
Another argument Jon makes is that fruit cannot be the test for faith because it isn't specific; someone can always ask, "Is this enough fruit to prove my salvation?" This goes against Jon's own interpretation of 1 John. Which is that John is denouncing False teachers for their wickedness. Those false teachers could have been more or less wicked, but it is still true that they can be categorized as wicked. The same hold true of believers we can bear more or less fruit, and yet it is still the case that the Bible teaches that bearing fruit and keeping commands proves we are truly saved. Jon is correct that there is some ambiguity to the question of how much good is enough to prove my faith. And yet God has told us it's a legitimate test. If you aren't sure if you have enough fruit, talk to older wiser Christians who can help you to see the fruits you may be blind to, or who can warn you that they aren't seeing much transformation in your life. (I learned that advice to talk to mature Christians from Kevin DeYoung in either his book "Hole in our Holiness" or "Impossible Christianity." I also learned that fruit is a legit test from him in these books too)
2. Jon's other Critique is that PW is causing believers great doubt over their salvation. At times in the podcast, Jon explained he criticises PW more for the tone of the message than the specific points. As others have said in this thread, Paul Washer spoke in a time when many people were claiming Christ without his lordship and without holiness. Paul Washer is speaking truths from Scripture, but it is important to balance biblical contrasts such as the call to transformed lives and God's grace to us as his Children. I think we can say that Paul Washer spoke biblical truth in a time it was desperately needed; however, at times he may have over emphasized the change needed in Christian's lives. Perhaps his message is harmful to some believers. Jon's chief criticism is for PW saying, "Be very afraid if your life can be explained without Christ"
In Paul Washer's defence, he does explain that the true believer's faith is evident by his direction toward holiness more than by his specific sins and good deeds. If Paul Washer met a believer who told him that his sermons caused them to be stuck in a Cycle of doubt. I doubt Paul Washer would be glad for this. Both he and Jon are in agreement that the letter of 1 John is written to give genuine believers assurance. At the same time I think that the problem isn't that PW preached falsely but that to some measure he miss emphasized and or they misheard.
3. Jon also argued from scripture that true believers can "run wild" and be ineffective and unfruitful. He even argued that the Story of Annanias and Saphira is an example of true believers sinning grievously. He argued from 2 Peter 1:8-11 that true believers can be ineffective and unfruitful. He argued that James 4:1-11 teaches Christians can be filled with so much sin. He also says that true believers can apostatize and then return according to 1 Corinthians 5:5; a true Christian can apostatize and return. He also appeals to the stories of David and others who sinned grievously and are still saved. I think it takes wisdom to tell the difference between Peter or David's sin and the sins that the non believers commit. But I think that anytime someone's life is full of sin there profession of faith is called into doubt.
However at the end of the day, Jon did agree with Paul Washer that someone who claims to be a Christian and lives in remorseless debauchery isn't a Believer. I think he even says that this is the meaning of James 2. I think we have to be careful to teach people both that believers still have sin and that unrepentant sin calls people's confessions into question. For further reading look at Precious remedies against Satan's devices by Thomas Brooks device 4 extenuating sin by showing us the best men's sins. (
Precious Remedies (Thomas Brooks) Bottom of page 32) In Joshua 1:7 Joshua is charged not to depart from God's law to either the right hand or the left. Avoid left and drift right or to avoid right and drift left. But perhaps Ecclesiastes 7:17-18 can teach us how.
[automerge]1775668174[/automerge]
I used to attend a Church from the same perspective. Every Sunday, our Pastor encouraged us as believers to rest in the finished work of Christ, and once a year he told us that we were called as Christians to do something. Thankfully I have found another Church wich places more emphasis on Holiness and I am reading books like the Puritans that are calling us to action.
