Vision Forum
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I received the catalog a few days ago and they do offer a whole lot of interesting stuff. I am a bit uncomfortable with the image of the virtuous boy and girl that they promote. It seems to me that that image often times in Vision Forum material ends up equating true Biblical piety with a romanticized view of colonial America.
I think when I am in the pastorate I would use them as a resource (i.e. a place to find some good materials for personal use and for giving), but would not promote the organization, for that reason.
Fred, I agree.
I find it ironic that when you read Edwards and his contemporaries, they complained that the culture back then was going to the dogs (I think they had a point when you compare the Mayflower Compact to the Declaration of Independence.)
For what it's worth, as a person who grew up in Amish country, I find an interesting parallel in the way some people mistakenly today seem to hold up Amish culture as an example of Biblical piety.
I find it ironic that when you read Edwards and his contemporaries, they complained that the culture back then was going to the dogs (I think they had a point when you compare the Mayflower Compact to the Declaration of Independence.)
For what it's worth, as a person who grew up in Amish country, I find an interesting parallel in the way some people mistakenly today seem to hold up Amish culture as an example of Biblical piety.
to Fred and Adam.I also received their catalog about a week ago, not sure how they got my address.
It is ironic how world denial leads to worldliness.
It also seems to be coming from the perspective of the reconstructionist/theonomy movement?
Some of the authors included that stood out to me were Sproul Jr., Rushdoony, Roy Moore.
Any more thoughts Fred or Adam? I think I am going to steer clear of this organization. Your thoughts have confirmed my uneasiness.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
But i thought America was a Christian Nation? 
LadyFlynt
Inactive User
Guess I'm just not seeing it. I have read a few of their books. Many are reprints from former eras. They show that the common sins prevalent today were also so back then. They show the consequences and they show redemption. One I am specifically thinking of is the book entitled "Mother". The tapes do not allude to colonial america as being better than now...merely that they had the same struggles as today and also that, yes, they had a few things that we have lost. Seems pretty balanced to me. I will agree though that there is a strong patriotic emphasis.
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Colleen, I'm right there with you.
I think that real masculinity and feminity are so rare today that to see them fleshed out is un-understandable to most Americans, even well meaning Christians. Also, VF gets a lot of abusive press from folks who have not even spent significant time trying to understand their emphases.
I think that real masculinity and feminity are so rare today that to see them fleshed out is un-understandable to most Americans, even well meaning Christians. Also, VF gets a lot of abusive press from folks who have not even spent significant time trying to understand their emphases.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Nothing New under the Sun
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
I can personally attest that I would not be here where I am today if it weren't for the Vision Forum. It was my junior year in college. I thought I was well-gifted with my arminian views of apologetics (even though a Calvinist) and my roman catholic understanding of natural law (even though still a calvinist). I then tried out my evangelical armanents on the philosophy profs at school and got my lunch ate. (I later learned that they were taking my premises and drawing them to their logical conclusions, thus the results of all non-Calvinist views of apologetics).
My boss at the time in the library, a godly woman, gave me a vision forum catalogue. The audio and book resources they offered were awesome. This was the stuff that I knew to be true, and once knew a long time ago, but many years in government education and sitting under the "culturally welwevant," got rid of any notion of a Christian America, the ultimacy of the Triune God, the primacy of his word, etc. I had secular views on law, politics, creation, and family. So, thought I, their catalogue is pretty neat.
Then, I went to the end of the catalogue and saw the Adventurous Boyhood stuff. Not only did I not make fun of it, this changed my worldview. I saw the childhood that I should have had (btw, I had a good childhood). This made me want to have kids. I wanted them to have what I was denied by Sunday School, Government School, etc.
Btw, I disagree with Phillips on a few things. That's fine. If you want to disagree with him, do so on biblical grounds. Don't say he's wrong just because the world will make fun of you.
Ditto to Lawrence and Colleen.
My boss at the time in the library, a godly woman, gave me a vision forum catalogue. The audio and book resources they offered were awesome. This was the stuff that I knew to be true, and once knew a long time ago, but many years in government education and sitting under the "culturally welwevant," got rid of any notion of a Christian America, the ultimacy of the Triune God, the primacy of his word, etc. I had secular views on law, politics, creation, and family. So, thought I, their catalogue is pretty neat.
Then, I went to the end of the catalogue and saw the Adventurous Boyhood stuff. Not only did I not make fun of it, this changed my worldview. I saw the childhood that I should have had (btw, I had a good childhood). This made me want to have kids. I wanted them to have what I was denied by Sunday School, Government School, etc.
Btw, I disagree with Phillips on a few things. That's fine. If you want to disagree with him, do so on biblical grounds. Don't say he's wrong just because the world will make fun of you.
Ditto to Lawrence and Colleen.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
Originally posted by LadyFlynt
It was a great privilege to meet Doug this year. I told him how his catalogue influenced my life. He was remarkable at the conference.
Anton Bruckner
Puritan Board Professor
Can you share some of the stuff from this work? Much appreciated
MICWARFIELD
Puritan Board Freshman
Although i was already familiar with Doug Phillips, I had not heard of Vision Forum until their catalogue arrived a couple of months ago. I give them two thumbs up! I love their vision! I find their vision of family refreshing and biblical.
I was happy to find such a resource as my wife and I are trying to raise a Godly masculine boy and a Godly daughter. My daughter just turned 13. I found a wonderful book for her which I ordered for Christmas entitled "So Much More". The subtitle is "The remarkable influence of visionary daughters on the kingdom of God." Its written by two sisters - one is age 19 and the other is 17. I also found a great gift for my son. I have a few others (for me) on my wish list also.
I was happy to find such a resource as my wife and I are trying to raise a Godly masculine boy and a Godly daughter. My daughter just turned 13. I found a wonderful book for her which I ordered for Christmas entitled "So Much More". The subtitle is "The remarkable influence of visionary daughters on the kingdom of God." Its written by two sisters - one is age 19 and the other is 17. I also found a great gift for my son. I have a few others (for me) on my wish list also.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
They encouraged and cultivated "biblical heroism," meaning 'women and children first.' Here is an old blog post of mine:
Women and Children First:
This weekend I listened to Doug Phillips give a stirring presentation of the worldviews behind the sailors of the Birkenhead, Titanic, and Boyeonne (sp is wrong here, but go with me on this one. Afterwards labeled Boye.). FOr those who don't know the story, these are three ships that went down with very different worldviews guiding the behaviours of those on the ship.
Birkenhead:
The Birkenhead went down off the Cape of South Africa. The British sailors (mostly Highlander Scots) were thoroughly Christian men and heroic ones at that. When the ship was going to sink, the Captain ordered his men to form ranks on the deck (there were only enough lifeboats to support the women on the ship) and see the women and children off to safety. Every woman and child made it to safety that day, but the men drowned. Not only did they drown, but there ship went down in shark-infested waters. Most of the men did not drown, per se, but were eaten alive. Nevertheless, every woman and child made it to safety. But as the ship went down, the men formed battle ranks. As Lowell so beautifully put it,
"It was the Pipes of the Highlanders,
And now they played Auld Lang Syne
It came to our men like the voice of God,
And they shouted along the line!"
[Robert Lowell (1816-1891), qtd. in George Grant, The Christian Almanac, July 14.]
Enter The French Revolution and Proto Darwinism
Sadly, the French at that time were not a part of Christendom, like the Merry Ole English. The French had imbibed the atheistic, dog-eat-dog Philosophy of the French Revolution. They understood well the bloodthirsty Goddess of Reason divorced from a transcendent moral standard. Well, ideas have consequences.
When the French Ship was going down and they realized that they did not have enough lifeboats to save all, the atheistic soldiers beat the women and children silly and got on the lifeboats themselves. Divorced from the heritage of Christendom and embracing the Enlightenment, these actions, while horrific, are perfectly understandable. They anticipated Darwin's Survival of the Fittest. The French soldiers survived and the women and children, except for a few, perished.
The Real Titanic
Most of you know the story of the Titanic so I will not repeat it, except to damn that atrocious vile spew that Hollywood put out. That movie should not be named Titanic, but Satanic. However, the men on the Titanic were true heroes who might have acted as perfectly as the men on the Birkenhead, nevertheless knew the heroic legacy of the Birkenhead and sought to imitate it.
Of course, to hear Doug Phillips narrate it was worth it. I was in tears a few times. And my brief summary does not even do it justice.
Anton Bruckner
Puritan Board Professor
thanks for the info, Jacob. As I ponder the "women and children first", I couldn't help but see how vigorously it opposes the values of modern america.
Funny thing is, last night I read Numbers 31, where God sent the Israelites out to fight against the Midianites. Only men went.
Funny thing is, last night I read Numbers 31, where God sent the Israelites out to fight against the Midianites. Only men went.
Anton Bruckner
Puritan Board Professor
ps. Jacob is the product, "Rebuilding a Culture of Virtuous Boyhood (CD)"?
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