What is the fullness of the Gentiles?

[Robin]

Originally posted by houseparent
Nah, I believe that too! I am just having a hard time placing this Jewish conversion in the proper place and the matter of it's importance.

My Dear Adam,

I'm not half as concerned about the Jew's conversion as I am about the "great apostasy" - which will come first. (2 Thess 2:3)

(but that's just me...)

Robin

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Right, the great apostasy comes first, as in, it already happened, about 1900 years ago.

 

[ReformedWretch]

O. Palmer Robertson has a commentary on Romans 11. I am going to check that out!

 

[Anton Bruckner]

Originally posted by bond-servant

Originally posted by Slippery
I thought the 144,000 in the Book of Revelation was the remnant that was saved. John specifically gives them the Jewish character of them being of the 12 tribes of Israel that were sealed, who had not defiled themselves i.e following apostate Judaism of the Pharisees. If we are in the millennium the only prophecy that is left to be fulfilled is the final judgment and the advent of the New Heaven and New Earth.

Yes, but that is not *all* the Jews that will be saved. There have been Jewish believers in all generations since the original apostles themselves.

Paul specifically mentions that the "Remnant" will be deemed the "All". This is why he uses the example of the 7000 of the Old Testament as a prefiguring of the Remnant that was future to his time.

All does not mean every single Jew from a period removed 2000 years from A.D 70. Neither does it mean every single Jew in Paul's time, since Caiaphas, and Annanus would have been saved. "All" in its context refers to a Remnant that God will set aside for Himself. I think Revelation bears this out clearly with the 144,000. Revelation says, "From the Tribe of such, 12,000. It did not say all of the Tribe of such. Since I think the Tribulation is in the past, I have to be logical and say that the Remnant is in the past.

The Millenial aspect of prophecy leaves no future conversion of any specific group of people, it does not mention any great Empire (not America, not the European Union) only the spreading of the Gospel and the expansion of the Kingdom before the final judgment.

It would be ridiculous for something as significant as the conversion of the Jewish people left to be determined and ratified if it occurred by a balkanized and factious church.

God specifically constrained most prophecies to be fulfilled in and through the Jewish people so that we can have a proper reference system with parameters so as to know when and what is fulfilled. Prophecies are never open ended. The prophecy that God has left to be witnessed by the whole world is the Final judgment. He has proven that this will happen by showing us that His word is true by the prophecies He fulfilled through the Jewish people from Abraham to A.D 70.

Most Dispensationalists use the Zechariah prophecy that says, "They will look to me whom they have pierced and mourn," to denote a future conversion, that was already shown by the Gospels to be fulfilled at the Crucifixion.

Heck I could be wrong, but in accordance with my belief in the Partial Preterist construct, I have to be sincere.

 

[WrittenFromUtopia]

Originally posted by houseparent
O. Palmer Robertson has a commentary on Romans 11. I am going to check that out!

Good call.