Where has all the help gone?
- Thread starter ChristopherPaul
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hollandmin
Puritan Board Freshman
This is interesting, Over the last 20 years our country has moved from a producing country to a consumer or service oriented country, and now we are getting so lazy that we don't even want to provide service. . . .
Come Lord Jesus!!!!. . . . . . . quickly
Come Lord Jesus!!!!. . . . . . . quickly
This kind of thing is the effect of minimum-wage laws.
People are not hired to "add value"--like wash your windows or pump your gas, because they cannot be legally hired for a low enough cost to make the position economically feasible.
M-W proponents (government geniuses who know what's good for everybody else) somehow think that there is no job that anyone should do which is worth less than, what is it now, $6 an hour?
However, in the real world, what this translates to is:
1) not a "foot on the ecomonic ladder" but the removal of the lowest rungs of that ladder. The elimination of "entry-level" jobs.
2) Creation of more welfare cases.
Its a win-win situation... for the government. More problems means, a reason to raise the M-W! Raise the M-W and now there are more problems! And, anyone who opposes the "process" obviously hates poor people. How can you be against giving more money to poor people? So, getting re-elected is a lock.
People are not hired to "add value"--like wash your windows or pump your gas, because they cannot be legally hired for a low enough cost to make the position economically feasible.
M-W proponents (government geniuses who know what's good for everybody else) somehow think that there is no job that anyone should do which is worth less than, what is it now, $6 an hour?
However, in the real world, what this translates to is:
1) not a "foot on the ecomonic ladder" but the removal of the lowest rungs of that ladder. The elimination of "entry-level" jobs.
2) Creation of more welfare cases.
Its a win-win situation... for the government. More problems means, a reason to raise the M-W! Raise the M-W and now there are more problems! And, anyone who opposes the "process" obviously hates poor people. How can you be against giving more money to poor people? So, getting re-elected is a lock.
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
So sad, and so true!
And here's a question for the M-W proponents: How come the poor people didn't become rich people (or at least middle class people) the last 1/2 dozen times they raised the M-W?
Just a thought.
Southern Presbyterian;
That's easy enough to answer..companies had to raise their prices in order to pay everyone m-w, lay off a few people in order to pay a few others m-w or close down and not pay anyone at all, including themselves...thereby creating more unemployment..and even more poor people..
That's easy enough to answer..companies had to raise their prices in order to pay everyone m-w, lay off a few people in order to pay a few others m-w or close down and not pay anyone at all, including themselves...thereby creating more unemployment..and even more poor people..
Presbyterian Deacon
Puritan Board Graduate
NOTE: they call it "MINIMUM wage" not a "LIVING wage." It's like "take home pay." They call it "take home pay" because home is the only place you can afford to go with it.
Not an M-W proponent, but that's my
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
Strange that folks like us can figure this out but the folks who are "paid" to figure these things out cannot seem to understand. Hmmmmm.... or do they? Whatever it takes to stay in power, I suppose.
I think New Jersey is still a place where it is illegal to pump your own gas.
I always felt awkward having people pump my gas and never used Full Service lines for that reason. I drove through NJ a number of years back and got out to pump my gas and the person got irate and looked at me like I'm stupid: Didn't you get the memo that was sent out to the entire United States that in New Jersey it's illegal to pump your own gas.
Gasoline at the Japanese stations is incredibly expensive but if you get your gas pumped there it's like you're a rock star. Well dressed employees run to your car and pump it and do all sorts of things for it. No tips - that's just the work ethic here. Everybody hustles.
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I used to love to sit in the car with my dad at the gas station when I was a child and watch the service station owner come out and wash the windows, check the oil and tire pressure. I used to look for spots he missed when he washed the windows, and think how I could do a better job!
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
This topic shows me how much I've changed with age and experience. I used to be a "Ditto Head" to the extreme, but now I find myself questioning some of the conservative ethics I once cherished. Don't get me wrong though, to me liberal is still pretty much a "dirty word" but here's where I lean on this topic (don't shoot me!)
-No one deserves to make less than minimum wage! I mean it's 7.25/7.50 an hour! Have you tried living on that? I am close to some people who do and it's nearly impossible.
-Pumping gas and bagging groceries is simply something big companies don't want to pay people to do. I worked in electronics for Wal Mart for three months and when we were real busy I was called to help up front. Talk about a thankless job! They pay minimum wage to those cashiers who are expected to be friendly, efficient, and FAST. Even if they are all those things many customers are thankless and annoyed at the job they are doing and it shows on their face and often comes out of their lips. I hated when I had to help up front, I mean hated it passionately. It may be a "simple" job but in my opinion they deserve more money. If they would get it, you would find friendlier workers who were good at what they did. If I owned Wal Mart cashiers would start at at least $10/hour.
-I mistrust the government and feel more often than not they are not good at what they do but I think they have an obligation to step in at times. The gas prices are soon going to reach a point to where my brother and I will be in the whole financially due to driving to and from work every day! Do the gas companies care? Our work place can't afford to raise everyone's salary to help out, so what's to be done? My other brother and his wife literally cannot afford heating oil and they have a three month old child in the house!
Again, with my life experiences and dealing with very poor people, I've come to learn that the "rugged individualism" I once cherished is a joke and in some ways ever cruel. It would be WONDERFUL if the Church stepped up and took on a serious role of helping the poor but over all they do a poor job with that. So I am starting the feel that the Government need to "SERVE" it's citizens and do something for those who can't do anything else than what they are already doing.
The poor are always with us! Let's reach out, as a Church AND a Government!
-No one deserves to make less than minimum wage! I mean it's 7.25/7.50 an hour! Have you tried living on that? I am close to some people who do and it's nearly impossible.
-Pumping gas and bagging groceries is simply something big companies don't want to pay people to do. I worked in electronics for Wal Mart for three months and when we were real busy I was called to help up front. Talk about a thankless job! They pay minimum wage to those cashiers who are expected to be friendly, efficient, and FAST. Even if they are all those things many customers are thankless and annoyed at the job they are doing and it shows on their face and often comes out of their lips. I hated when I had to help up front, I mean hated it passionately. It may be a "simple" job but in my opinion they deserve more money. If they would get it, you would find friendlier workers who were good at what they did. If I owned Wal Mart cashiers would start at at least $10/hour.
-I mistrust the government and feel more often than not they are not good at what they do but I think they have an obligation to step in at times. The gas prices are soon going to reach a point to where my brother and I will be in the whole financially due to driving to and from work every day! Do the gas companies care? Our work place can't afford to raise everyone's salary to help out, so what's to be done? My other brother and his wife literally cannot afford heating oil and they have a three month old child in the house!
Again, with my life experiences and dealing with very poor people, I've come to learn that the "rugged individualism" I once cherished is a joke and in some ways ever cruel. It would be WONDERFUL if the Church stepped up and took on a serious role of helping the poor but over all they do a poor job with that. So I am starting the feel that the Government need to "SERVE" it's citizens and do something for those who can't do anything else than what they are already doing.
The poor are always with us! Let's reach out, as a Church AND a Government!
Adam,
The thing is, these jobs are not the kind of jobs you would expect to see your brother seeking out, pumping gas, etc. BUT (!) what about that kid from the poor neighborhood? He has hardly any skills, and no place to start off with a chance to learn anything, before he has kids (or wants them), get out of gang-attractions.
He has no family yet, no responsibilities, he lives at home, bills are paid. *BUT* IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE HIM, not for a menial job which a proprietor CANNOT AFFORD to pay $7+ dollars for! THAT JOB HAS DISAPPEARED. That's the point.
Furthermore, the cost of living simply rises to the new "floor". Your brother would have made less before, but the COL was also lower. It rose, because that's what an artificial floor does when new dollars chase the old goods. Complicating the problem is the inflation which hits the lowest class the hardest. Their money is devalued which means it doesn't go so far, thanks to the same government's printing press, so to "solve" this problem, the govt raises the M-W. Nice cycle of dependency.
The govt is creating poverty, and more of it all the time. M-W is just one of their tools to make serfs of all of us.
The thing is, these jobs are not the kind of jobs you would expect to see your brother seeking out, pumping gas, etc. BUT (!) what about that kid from the poor neighborhood? He has hardly any skills, and no place to start off with a chance to learn anything, before he has kids (or wants them), get out of gang-attractions.
He has no family yet, no responsibilities, he lives at home, bills are paid. *BUT* IT IS ILLEGAL TO HIRE HIM, not for a menial job which a proprietor CANNOT AFFORD to pay $7+ dollars for! THAT JOB HAS DISAPPEARED. That's the point.
Furthermore, the cost of living simply rises to the new "floor". Your brother would have made less before, but the COL was also lower. It rose, because that's what an artificial floor does when new dollars chase the old goods. Complicating the problem is the inflation which hits the lowest class the hardest. Their money is devalued which means it doesn't go so far, thanks to the same government's printing press, so to "solve" this problem, the govt raises the M-W. Nice cycle of dependency.
The govt is creating poverty, and more of it all the time. M-W is just one of their tools to make serfs of all of us.
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
Good points Bruce, I'm just struggling with my politics as life moves along. 
Exactly...that's why you had to go up front to bag groceries...individuals wear more hats because companies are employing less people...Companies may raise salaries and let people go, or they can lower the wage and offer more people jobs.
I believe a lot of the problem has to do with our abilities to get cheap goods...and our insistence that they get cheaper and cheaper...at a certain point, price can't be cut any more and people lose their jobs...either by workers wearing multiple hats, or through automation. It's also why we produce far less as a nation while consuming more. How can we compete with nations that basically have slave labor? Price-wise, we can't.
We are blaming big business...in a sense, sure...especially global conglomerates that influence our legislators...but businesses like Walmart are giving us what we want: "Cheap stuff!"
We have one or two grocery store's here that hire baggers, they are typically young 14 and 15 year old boys and girls in high school looking for money to start saving for that first car when they turn 16, and because of their age they can only work so many hours per week, and in that they mostly work weekends and evenings..
jaybird0827
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
The last I knew (2000) it was still illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon. I don't know that that has changed.
ChristopherPaul
Puritan Board Senior
The last I knew (2000) it was still illegal to pump your own gas in Oregon. I don't know that that has changed.
It has not. NJ and Oregon are both still "full" service only.
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