White vs. Strawbridge Baptism debate

[MSH]

In a debate between James White and Gregg Strawbridge that I listened to a while back White asked a good question that I didn't feel was adequatley addressed in the debate.

The question was along the lines that if unbelievers are in the New Covenant in what way is Christ their mediator?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

 

[Semper Fidelis]

James has asked that question a number of times both in debate and on his program as a criticism of Presbyterians because he has a very narrow definition of Christ's mediatorial work. He limits that mediation, it seems, to His Priestly office as James regularly implies that for Christ to be mediator is equivalent to saying that Christ's redemption has been applied to the party mediated.

I think it's important to start with this:

WCF VII

I. The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their Creator, yet they could never have any fruition of him, as their blessedness and reward, but by some voluntary condescension on God's part, which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.

And then this:

Chapter VIII

I. It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only-begotten Son, to be the Mediator between God and men, the prophet, priest, and king; the head and Savior of the Church, the heir or all things, and judge of the world; unto whom he did, from all eternity, give a people to be his seed, and to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.

I preached a sermon exploring the necessity that God would become Man not merely for the satisfaction of His justice but even man's fruition or knowledge. Christ, it seems to me, is necessary for man to even have a theology - some contact between the Creator and the creature.

Chapter VIII of the Confession ties into Christ's Offices as Redeemer expounded in the Catechisms. This goes a long way of answering the question: "What does Christ mediate to the unelect for it answers the question (in reality) what He mediates to the creature in general.

The Shorter Catechism notes that Christ fulfills three offices as Redeemer (aka Mediator). The WLC unpacks this as follows:

Q. 36. Who is the Mediator of the covenant of grace?
A. The only Mediator of the covenant of grace is the Lord Jesus Christ,137 who, being the eternal Son of God, of one substance and equal with the Father,138 in the fulness of time became man,139 and so was and continues to be God and man, in two entire distinct natures, and one person, forever.140

Q. 37. How did Christ, being the Son of God, become man?
A. Christ the Son of God became man, by taking to himself a true body, and a reasonable soul,141 being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance, and born of her,142 yet without sin.143

Q. 38. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death,144 give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience, and intercession;145 and to satisfy God’s justice,146 procure his favour,147 purchase a peculiar people,148 give his Spirit to them,149 conquer all their enemies,150 and bring them to everlasting salvation.151

Q. 39. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature,152 perform obedience to the law,153 suffer and make intercession for us in our nature,154 have a fellow-feeling of our infirmities;155 that we might receive the adoption of sons,156 and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.157

Q. 40. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God and man in one person?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator, who was to reconcile God and man, should himself be both God and man, and this in one person, that the proper works of each nature might be accepted of God for us,158 and relied on by us as the works of the whole person.159

Q. 41. Why was our Mediator called Jesus?
A. Our Mediator was called Jesus, because he saveth his people from their sins.160

Q. 42. Why was our Mediator called Christ?
A. Our Mediator was called Christ, because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost above measure,161 and so set apart, and fully furnished with all authority and ability,162 to execute the offices of prophet,163 priest,164 and king of his church,165 in the estate both of his humiliation and exaltation.

Q. 43. How doth Christ execute the office of a prophet?
A. Christ executeth the office of a prophet, in his revealing to the church,166 in all ages, by his Spirit and Word,167 in divers ways of administration,168 the whole will of God,169 in all things concerning their edification and salvation.170

Q. 44. How doth Christ execute the office of a priest?
A. Christ executeth the office of a priest, in his once offering himself a sacrifice without spot to God,171 to be reconciliation for the sins of his people;172 and in making continual intercession for them.173

Q. 45. How doth Christ execute the office of a king?
A. Christ executeth the office of a king, in calling out of the world a people to himself,174 and giving them officers,175 laws,176 and censures, by which he visibly governs them;177 in bestowing saving grace upon his elect,178 rewarding their obedience,179 and correcting them for their sins,180 preserving and supporting them under all their temptations and sufferings,181 restraining and overcoming all their enemies,182 and powerfully ordering all things for his own glory,183 and their good;184 and also in taking vengeance on the rest, who know not God, and obey not the gospel.185

So let me answer with two very important ways in which Christ mediates the Covenant of Grace to the Church (whether elect or non-elect):

The Preaching of the Word: It belongs to Him as Prophet that there are preachers of the Word who are proclaiming under His Office. Whether or not men are elect, Christ's Office stands behind the preaching of the Word or a man would not be Preaching.

Church Discipline: It belongs to Him as King that there are under-Shepherds. The exercise of correction and even excommunication belongs to this Mediatorial office of reign as Churches are visible embassies of the Kingdom of God.

Thus, the issue is not whether Christ mediates but how James is (un-Biblically I believe) limiting the notion of Mediation as something that occurs strictly in the application of redemption to God's elect.

p.s. I think that mankind will be judged, in no small measure, due to Christ's mediatorial work of being the perfect Revelation of the Father. God became flesh and dwelt among us. All knowledge is revelation of sorts and I believe that men will be judge based on the clarity of Revelation that they had in Christ that they suppressed in unrighteousness.

 

[Captain Picard]

James has asked that question a number of times both in debate and on his program as a criticism of Presbyterians because he has a very narrow definition of Christ's mediatorial work. He limits that mediation, it seems, to His Priestly office as James regularly implies that for Christ to be mediator is equivalent to saying that Christ's redemption has been applied to the party mediated.

I think it's important to start with this:

WCF VII

I. The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their Creator, yet they could never have any fruition of him, as their blessedness and reward, but by some voluntary condescension on God's part, which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.

And then this:

Chapter VIII

I. It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only-begotten Son, to be the Mediator between God and men, the prophet, priest, and king; the head and Savior of the Church, the heir or all things, and judge of the world; unto whom he did, from all eternity, give a people to be his seed, and to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.

I preached a sermon exploring the necessity that God would become Man not merely for the satisfaction of His justice but even man's fruition or knowledge. Christ, it seems to me, is necessary for man to even have a theology - some contact between the Creator and the creature.

Chapter VIII of the Confession ties into Christ's Offices as Redeemer expounded in the Catechisms. This goes a long way of answering the question: "What does Christ mediate to the unelect for it answers the question (in reality) what He mediates to the creature in general.

The Shorter Catechism notes that Christ fulfills three offices as Redeemer (aka Mediator). The WLC unpacks this as follows:

Q. 36. Who is the Mediator of the covenant of grace?
A. The only Mediator of the covenant of grace is the Lord Jesus Christ,137 who, being the eternal Son of God, of one substance and equal with the Father,138 in the fulness of time became man,139 and so was and continues to be God and man, in two entire distinct natures, and one person, forever.140

Q. 37. How did Christ, being the Son of God, become man?
A. Christ the Son of God became man, by taking to himself a true body, and a reasonable soul,141 being conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, of her substance, and born of her,142 yet without sin.143

Q. 38. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death,144 give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience, and intercession;145 and to satisfy God’s justice,146 procure his favour,147 purchase a peculiar people,148 give his Spirit to them,149 conquer all their enemies,150 and bring them to everlasting salvation.151

Q. 39. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature,152 perform obedience to the law,153 suffer and make intercession for us in our nature,154 have a fellow-feeling of our infirmities;155 that we might receive the adoption of sons,156 and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.157

Q. 40. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God and man in one person?
A. It was requisite that the Mediator, who was to reconcile God and man, should himself be both God and man, and this in one person, that the proper works of each nature might be accepted of God for us,158 and relied on by us as the works of the whole person.159

Q. 41. Why was our Mediator called Jesus?
A. Our Mediator was called Jesus, because he saveth his people from their sins.160

Q. 42. Why was our Mediator called Christ?
A. Our Mediator was called Christ, because he was anointed with the Holy Ghost above measure,161 and so set apart, and fully furnished with all authority and ability,162 to execute the offices of prophet,163 priest,164 and king of his church,165 in the estate both of his humiliation and exaltation.

Q. 43. How doth Christ execute the office of a prophet?
A. Christ executeth the office of a prophet, in his revealing to the church,166 in all ages, by his Spirit and Word,167 in divers ways of administration,168 the whole will of God,169 in all things concerning their edification and salvation.170

Q. 44. How doth Christ execute the office of a priest?
A. Christ executeth the office of a priest, in his once offering himself a sacrifice without spot to God,171 to be reconciliation for the sins of his people;172 and in making continual intercession for them.173

Q. 45. How doth Christ execute the office of a king?
A. Christ executeth the office of a king, in calling out of the world a people to himself,174 and giving them officers,175 laws,176 and censures, by which he visibly governs them;177 in bestowing saving grace upon his elect,178 rewarding their obedience,179 and correcting them for their sins,180 preserving and supporting them under all their temptations and sufferings,181 restraining and overcoming all their enemies,182 and powerfully ordering all things for his own glory,183 and their good;184 and also in taking vengeance on the rest, who know not God, and obey not the gospel.185

So let me answer with two very important ways in which Christ mediates the Covenant of Grace to the Church (whether elect or non-elect):

The Preaching of the Word: It belongs to Him as Prophet that there are preachers of the Word who are proclaiming under His Office. Whether or not men are elect, Christ's Office stands behind the preaching of the Word or a man would not be Preaching.

Church Discipline: It belongs to Him as King that there are under-Shepherds. The exercise of correction and even excommunication belongs to this Mediatorial office of reign as Churches are visible embassies of the Kingdom of God.

Thus, the issue is not whether Christ mediates but how James is (un-Biblically I believe) limiting the notion of Mediation as something that occurs strictly in the application of redemption to God's elect.

p.s. I think that mankind will be judged, in no small measure, due to Christ's mediatorial work of being the perfect Revelation of the Father. God became flesh and dwelt among us. All knowledge is revelation of sorts and I believe that men will be judge based on the clarity of Revelation that they had in Christ that they suppressed in unrighteousness.

Great post. I've done a webcast and some blogging on concepts explored in the White/Strawbridge debates (there are two), and I think there is also a strong narrowing of the new covenant by Dr. White regarding the idea that, because it is in Christ's blood, it MUST save all who participate in it in any way. This is consistent with his RB position, but inconsistent with the analogy of the Olive Tree and the language of Hebrews 12.

 

[MW]

Even from an antipaedobaptist perspective there must be an acknowledgment that Christ is Mediator by profession. He is called the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Hebrews 3:1.

In Hebrews 3-4, a parallel is explicitly drawn between the people of Israel and those who profess Jesus Christ under the new testament. The privileges of this profession are expressed in chapter 6, while in chapter 10 this profession is overtly regarded as a covenant relation, and reiterated as such in chapter 12.

 

[Captain Picard]

Even from an antipaedobaptist perspective there must be an acknowledgment that Christ is Mediator by profession. He is called the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Hebrews 3:1.

In Hebrews 3-4, a parallel is explicitly drawn between the people of Israel and those who profess Jesus Christ under the new testament. The privileges of this profession are expressed in chapter 6, while in chapter 10 this profession is overtly regarded as a covenant relation, and reiterated as such in chapter 12.

I totally hadn't noticed that Christ is the High Priest of our profession. Good stuff.

 

[MSH]

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread. It has been most helpful!