Who does what in salvation?

[PresbyDane]

I attend some grown up christian education program (it is more like a sundayschool) 1 time a month.

Today we had second Romans 6-9 and I need to tell you what happened and please give your opinion on it.

At one point during the teaching the guy (who is a really big guy in the organisation were in I get to preach, he is the secretary of teaching)
put up a diagram, I wish I could scan it but I can not, sorry

pic 1: 3 trees (black) different people groups after the fall
pic 2: 2 black 1 white (Israel being chosen as the people through which salvation will come)
pic 3: 1 white tree were one branch is fallen of representing those who fall away + 1 black tree to represent were it falls to
pic 4: 1 White tree that has a branch from a black tree stuck into it (there is a word for it but do not know the english one sorry)
pic 5: 1 white tree with nearly no branches that represents a VERY broken Israel and a LOT of black branches storming towards it.
pic 6: same as number 5 + broken of white branches are climbing back onto the white tree representing that God will eventually put them back onto that tree.

Now please remember that I have only given you a fraction of the teaching that day and It was nearly all like this + we are about 40 people attending, so I could only justifiably adress a few points, here is what I said/asked.

Earlier He had said that if people are lost, it is there own doing and that if they were saved it was Gods doing (so far so good) he then went on to say, "but the responsability lies with the person to be saved, the person has to excersice their "thing" (he would not qualifi this for me) in order to be saved.
-- I asked Well how come you are a christian and your nabour is not? is that because you have something he has not or you do something he does not, for if that is what you are saying, then something lies within the person for salvation--- he answerd, "Of cours, We are ourselves responsible for being saved, we have to act positivly or activly with the offer that God gives to all people to be saved.
I then asked how that answer gave ALL glory to God, he gave no satisfactory answer and I will spare you the nonsense, though he began stating something about only "calvinist" (in denmark these are the worst of worst) thinking like me (busted, but did not tell him, it would have ruined the conversation)
Then he started saying something about that the branches had to cling themselves to the tree, and be careful not to fall of and that this was the clear teaching of the bible
Lastly came the famous one: "God gave the offer of salvation to everybody, now those who act positivly will be the ones that by doing so will be saved"

To this I stated "okay, there has to be to options: either God offers salvation to EVERYBODY but only those who act on it get saved OR: God saves the elect and the others get judgment like all of us would get were we not given grace"

He answerd from something he had described earlier about men being something like "neutral" in these things and said "I think there is to much here for us to understand and there will be a 3 way to what you have said"

During these 30 minutes, he negated God Sovereignty, All-Power, Will and Intention.
Was I all of asking these questions to him, and what would you have done, keeping in mind that you can only take like 3-4 minutes to show the faultyness of his words to 40 people?

Please ask, I know this if a bit confused, I just needed it of my chest, so frustrated.
And this being a very short part of a 7 hour teaching day, I might need to elaborate on details

 

[Jon 316]

All I know is that my becoming a calvinist has messed up almost every sermon I hear in churches these days!

 

[panta dokimazete]

Wow - Pelagianism 101!

 

[charliejunfan]

God CAUSES our salvation and the EFFECT is our salvation, it is 100% God alone AKA Monergism(one party working) as opposed to Cooperation AKA Synergism(2 partys working). Your teacher sounds like he was teaching synergism which is that God comes with grace finishing his part, and then we do our part which is to accept with our free will. Contrary to your teacher we believe that Christ died for all sin including the sin of unbelief but for the elect alone, God the Father sends the Holy Spirit to Regenerate the elect, that is give a new heart to those dead in sin who were chosen to believe, this regeneration or rebirth WILL result in the regenerate person responding to the gospel in faith which is itself is imparted to us from the Holy Spirit, Faith in Christ results in our justification through Christ's imputed righteousness.

To sum it up: God grants us a new heart and grants us faith, He makes us want Himself, it is Cause and Effect, NOT cooperation.

Here is the Westminster Confession on the matter:

Chapter 10. Of Effectual Calling.
1. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, he is pleased, in his appointed and accepted time, effectually to call,a by his Word and Spirit,b out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ;c enlightening their minds, spiritually and savingly, to understand the things of God;d taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh;e renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good,f and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ;g yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.h

a. Rom 8:30; 11:7; Eph 1:10-11. • b. 2 Cor 3:3, 6; 2 Thes 2:13-14. • c. Rom 8:2; Eph 2:1-5; 2 Tim 1:9-10. • d. Acts 26:18; 1 Cor 2:10, 12; Eph 1:17-18. • e. Ezek 36:26. • f. Deut 30:6; Ezek 11:19; 36:27; Phil 2:13. • g. John 6:44-45; Eph 1:19. • h. Psa 110:3; Song 1:4; John 6:37; Rom 6:16-18.

2. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man;a who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit,b he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.c

a. Rom 9:11; Eph 2:4-5, 8-9; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:4-5. • b. Rom 8:7; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:5. • c. Ezek 36:27; John 5:25; 6:37.

 

[Rich Koster]

God does it all. The elect receive the benefit of His unmerited favor.