Who here is Saved?

[ChristopherPaul]

Who, among the living, is saved from the wrath of God?

Answer: Everyone

Who will be saved from the wrath of God forever?

Answer: God's elect

In the current state, who, among the living is saved from the wrath of God forever? Are we not clinging to a hope of our future salvation? Are we not trusting that God keeps His promises and that we believe He will eventually save us?

I may say I am "saved" but really I am saying that I expect to be passed over at the time God judges the world and gives to everyone what they deserve.

So all this present confession is a confession, not of present states, but of future promises.

Thoughts?

 

[biblelighthouse]

It is a both a present state, and future promises.

According to Scripture, we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved.

The word "saved" is used in all three tenses: past, present, and future, because there are aspects of salvation that fit into each of the 3 slots.

You have been declared righteous by God. That is past tense.

You will be saved from God's eschatological wrath. That is in the future.

Both are true.

 

[panta dokimazete]

salvation is atemporal- understanding and assurance is not.

 

[Romans922]

Originally posted by ChristopherPaul
Who, among the living, is saved from the wrath of God?

Answer: Everyone


Thoughts?

I disagree with this, simply because Everyone is not saved from God's wrath who are living right now. God's judgments, which include His wrath, are not only for those who have passed from this life. I should not have to explain this and give examples. God judges daily people on earth. Not simply with His full outright wrath but with restrained wrath.

 

[DTK]

Originally posted by ChristopherPaul
Who, among the living, is saved from the wrath of God?

Answer: Everyone

Actually Chris, The Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 1:18, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,...The Greek word "revealed" (avpokalu,ptetai, third person, singular, present, passive, indicative of avpokalu,ptw) should be properly translated and understood as "being revealed." Thus, the wrath of God is presently being revealed against those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness in terms of temporal judgments, and will be revealed in terms of a future eternal judgment if such continue in their impenitent state. Even their present state of unbelief can be a revelation and form of God's wrath if it has been compounded by an act of His judicial hardening.

Hope this helps,
DTK

[Edited on 12-5-2005 by DTK]

 

[Arch2k]

Westminster larger catechism

Q28: What are the punishments of sin in this world?
A28: The punishments of sin in this world are either inward, as blindness of mind,[1] a reprobate sense,[2] strong delusions,[3] hardness of heart,[4] horror of conscience,[5] and vile affections;[6] or outward, as the curse of God upon the creatures for our sakes,[7] and all other evils that befall us in our bodies, names, estates, relations, and employments;[8] together with death itself.[9]

1. Eph. 4:18
2. Rom. 1:28
3. II Thess. 2:11
4. Rom. 2:5
5. Isa. 33:14; Gen. 4:13; Matt. 27:4
6. Rom. 1:26
7. Gen. 3:17
8. Deut. 28:15-18
9. Rom. 6:21, 23

Q29: What are the punishments of sin in the world to come?
A29: The punishments of sin in the world to come, are everlasting separation from the comfortable presence of God, and most grievous torments in soul and body, without intermission, in hell fire forever.[1]

1. II Thess. 1:9; Mark 9:43-44, 46, 48; Luke 16:24

 

[Me Died Blue]

Regarding the unsaved currently on the earth, they are not being spared from God's wrath in every sense (as Andrew noted), but they are being spared from it in the full sense in which it is deserved. Regarding the saved, it simply involves the difference between justification (present) and glorification (future), both of which I suppose could be used to mean different but equally real senses of being "saved."

 

[Preach]

Does God ever pour out His wrath (as distinguished from chastisement) upon the elect?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think some folks are jumping to some unwarranted conclusions and should really ask for some clarification before assuming a regular member believes in universalism. If the first two statements are part of the same thought process then then the first statement is true as far as it goes. He did not define "life" as merely breathing and those outside the Kingdom are said to be dead so the first statement is very true if you presume, as I did, that he was referring to Spiritual life.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

Originally posted by Preach
Does God ever pour out His wrath (as distinguished from chastisement) upon the elect?

Ephesians 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

In Adam and the Covenant of works we are under wrath.
In Christ we are not given over ultimately to that wrath, though the affects of such are in and around us until we are converted.

I would be careful to use "pour out" His wrath, for that really goes along with ultimate judgment. the elect are never ultiamtely judges under wrath because we have been rescued by Christ.

 

[tcalbrecht]

"He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36)

The wrath of God is a present condition for the unbeliever.

 

[ChristopherPaul]

Thank you for the comments.

God's wrath is presently restrained from the earth. The earth deserves to be destroyed, but God, through promise, is preserving it from total annihilation. The same with the covenant of Grace (cf: Isaiah 54:9). The earth is saved from destruction by flood. This is a present reality and a future hope like our salvation.

"For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers" (1 Timothy 4:10).

All men are saved from the wrath of God. If an unregenerate man's heart beats another second it is only by the grace of God. The elect especially are saved from the just wrath to come.