Witnessing w/o using the scriptures?

[Andres]

I posted this to the guy I'm discussing this with on another forum, and hopefully this helps to make my stance clearer:

If I tell someone, “Jesus lived a sinless perfect life, at the appointed time was betrayed into the hands of sinful men, was tortured, had His beard ripped from His face, was spit upon, slapped, a crown of thorns was placed upon His head, was taken up to Calvary where they nailed Him to a cross. Was then taken down and placed in a tomb, and three days later rose again. And if you truly believe this you will be saved,” even though I may not have quoted scripture, that is saturated with scripture. It is scriptural truth. That’s what Paul did that CI cannot (apparently) see.

CI are the initials of the guy's usernme I am discussing this with. I wrote this to another guy who is also discussing this with that guy.

All of what he may have said may be true, but all it would take is for the person he is witnessing to to say, "I don't believe you.", then what? Scripture is our authority when we speak on these matters. Without scripture, men are espousing opinions and philosophies. Even when they happen to be true, if you can't say "thus saith the Lord..." then you have no leg to stand on.

 

[ZackF]

Our methodologies are also influenced by a chapter and verse style not familiar to the ancients. They memorized Scripture but did not ruminate over numbers like we do.

 

[RamistThomist]

All of what he may have said may be true, but all it would take is for the person he is witnessing to to say, "I don't believe you.", then what? Scripture is our authority when we speak on these matters. Without scripture, men are espousing opinions and philosophies. Even when they happen to be true, if you can't say "thus saith the Lord..." then you have no leg to stand on.

There isn't any reason he cannot say "I don't believe you" to a Scripture passage we use. Scripture is our authority, but it does not always follow it works the same way in an evangelistic encounter.

 

[Andres]

There isn't any reason he cannot say "I don't believe you" to a Scripture passage we use. Scripture is our authority, but it does not always follow it works the same way in an evangelistic encounter.

No because then he rejects what God hath said rather than what I have said. Big difference.

 

[RamistThomist]

No because then he rejects what God hath said rather than what I have said. Big difference.

I get that. I'm not sure what it adds to the discussion between our interlocutor and our unbeliever.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

It’s getting kookier and kookier with this guy..

I quoted this:

Sovereign Grace:
How can you tell ppl about Jesus without using scripture, even if paraphrasing?

His response:

Uh uh uh now you’re getting to the issue. Paraphrasing Biblical truth is different from quoting scripture. I’ve already given an example of this. If I say that “Jesus, over a span of about 3 1/2 years, had a ministry where He healed the sick, cast out demons, preached the gospel, and mentored and trained His disciples before dying to pay the penalty for your sins”, I’m sharing Biblical truth but I’m not actually quoting (not even really paraphrasing) actual Bible verses. But everything in that quote of mine is actual Biblical TRUTH.

Are you truly unable to understand this?

 

[RamistThomist]

It’s getting kookier and kookier with this guy..

I quoted this:



His response:

Uh uh uh now you’re getting to the issue. Paraphrasing Biblical truth is different from quoting scripture. I’ve already given an example of this. If I say that “Jesus, over a span of about 3 1/2 years, had a ministry where He healed the sick, cast out demons, preached the gospel, and mentored and trained His disciples before dying to pay the penalty for your sins”, I’m sharing Biblical truth but I’m not actually quoting (not even really paraphrasing) actual Bible verses. But everything in that quote of mine is actual Biblical TRUTH.

Are you truly unable to understand this?

That's what we've all been telling you. One can use Scriptural truths without "quoting" Scripture, since Paul didn't quote Scripture on Mars Hill, save for a reference to the Resurrection. That, too, is problematic, since the NT hadn't been written. We can say he used OT Scripture, and he might have, but we don't actually know that.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

That's what we've all been telling you. One can use Scriptural truths without "quoting" Scripture, since Paul didn't quote Scripture on Mars Hill, save for a reference to the Resurrection. That, too, is problematic, since the NT hadn't been written. We can say he used OT Scripture, and he might have, but we don't actually know that.

But you cannot use scriptural truths without even alluding to them.

 

[RamistThomist]

But you cannot use scriptural truths without even alluding to them.

Right. But an allusion is not a quotation. The quote from the guy said as much. He seemed to have no problem alluding to Scripture in a gospel presentation, which is what we have been telling you.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

Right. But an allusion is not a quotation. The quote from the guy said as much. He seemed to have no problem alluding to Scripture in a gospel presentation, which is what we have been telling you.

But my point is if I say Jesus died and rose again I’ve used scripture. He’s saying I didn’t. He’s saying you can preach the gospel without using scripture which is, in my opinion, rank heresy.

 

[RamistThomist]

But my point is if I say Jesus died and rose again I’ve used scripture. He’s saying I didn’t. He’s saying you can preach the gospel without using scripture which is, in my opinion, rank heresy.

At this point I think it is semantics, since neither you nor he disagree on the substance.

 

[ReformedChristian]

On another forum, I’ve been debating a guy and he said something I found very odd: he said that Paul witnessed on Mars hill without quoting one scripture, yet it says, “they heard of the resurrection of the dead” in verse 33, which would have to include him using scripture.

Is there any way ppl can witness Christ outside using the scriptures? I don’t think they can but would value your input.

Paul may not have quoted Scripture directly, but he still alluded to it. For example Acts 17:24 is an allusion to Isaiah 42:5, Acts 17:26 is from Genesis 1:26-27 to name a few. So that's an odd statement. And in talking about the resurrection he probably quoted Daniel 12:2 or had that in mind.

 

[Ed Walsh]

But my point is if I say Jesus died and rose again I’ve used scripture. He’s saying I didn’t. He’s saying you can preach the gospel without using scripture which is, in my opinion, rank heresy.

I'm with @RamistThomist on this one.
But with you, too, because I get your point also.

At the least, your friend is deceived about our task. We are ambassadors for Christ, and as such, we must remember our role is that of an ambassador. We don't have personal opinions or goals, but our message is of the One who called us from among the dead and lifeless to life, and that more abundantly.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: the old has gone, and the new is here!
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are, therefore, Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.'

2 Corinthians 5:17-21

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: the old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconcili | New International Version

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: the old has gone, the new is here! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconcili

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