Afterthought
Puritan Board Senior
*sigh* It seems as though ever since I started Reforming I've come across one painful problem after another within my Evangelical circle, and it isn't fun at all as I feel I am losing some of my nearest friends to one heresy or another while I can do nothing, including one person I had hoped on courting someday.... -__- I can only hope that I am merely being a young (both in age and theology) Reformed person and so am overreacting.
This thread has to do with singing songs as part of worship. I realize that there is some difference of opinion, but I hope my question is still answerable.
Firstly, how would you define worship (actually, singing songs as part of worship since "worship" and "singing songs" are equivalent in everyday Evangelical terminology it seems--I may unintentionally slip around in my terminology concerning this)? I've heard it defined as our response to God. Since I am new to this Reformed stuff, I am very suspicious of the use of the first person, so I do not know whether this is what it actually is.
Next, what role do instruments and personal preference play in worship? I have a friend who is considering leaving a church because the worship isn't "passionate enough." This friend had gone on a trip where they visited and helped a Charismatically run daycare for less-fortunate kids. The people there sung the songs with great passion as they sung them with the little kids there.
They used hand motions and the songs had lyrics such as (and remember, they were "little kid" songs): "Jesus is my superhero, You're my star, my Best Friend" and "Everything's okay and everything's alright 'cause I've got Jesus in my life." Even the "adult" songs were sung passionately though not necessarily with hand motions. My friend coming back to the church noticed that people there were not as "passionate" in their singing. My friend says "I cannot sing anymore here. I need to leave because I cannot worship God here." As another question then, is this a valid reason to leave a church? I must admit, the kind of songs where you get your whole body into it and sing of God as though He is right there near to you and responding to you outside of His Word is very attractive, but is it true or right?
Next, as part of all this, I tried to keep my mouth shut, but I was pressed on this issue. How was I to respond? That they were being selfish and not truly worshipping God? That's a pretty hefty accusation considering I know little enough of this issue as it is, and to make it more difficult, I know that none would care for the theology behind any reasons I would have for God choosing how we should worship Him instead of the other way around. I instead asked a question, "What would God want for worship?" My friend answered that He would probably want people to be passionate in their worship.
Anyway, part of the argument I was given while discussing this with my brother afterwords was that instruments are useful for stirring the emotions so that we can worship God better. Instruments help us focus our attention on God so that we can actually worship Him. Some worship better if their emotions are stirred while others are not, and that is fine.
I continued to answer in "I don't knows" because I really don't when I was questioned by him as he said, "Do you really believe that people who are unable to worship in one way but are able to worship in another aren't really worshipping? You say that hymns or contemporary doesn't matter, but it certainly does. What about people who do hymns and cannot adjust to contemporary worship? Are they not really worshipping too? Are not the style and instruments allowing to worship better? I myself have an easier time worshipping with instruments such as guitars etc. I am telling you sincerely that I am worshipping God. Are you saying that I am not doing so either? I find it hard to believe that all these people would be wrong considering they are really Christians. However, do you doubt that I am wrong too?" How in the world could I respond to something like that?
This argument was given to me by my brother as part of a conversation about the church that my friend goes to not being "passionate" enough. He said that they should really get a guitar since although they do contemporary worship they do not have one, and the guitar would allow people to worship better. I said that if they could not worship without the guitar they would not worship any better with it. That's when I was given the argument that instruments are helpful for some by stirring their emotions so that they can worship God. Is this a valid argument? If I get more on this argument from him--since I doubt this will be over any time soon--I'll post it here to make sure we all understand what the argument actually is.
Finally, are there any resources available on the Internet on this subject which are down-to-earth for laypeople who care nothing for theology because theology is scary since it is "complicated?"
Am I wrong in any of what I have said above? I hardly understand what's involved in the Regulative Principle of Worship though I know what it is, and my knowledge of what is invovled is currently restricted to worshipping in "Spirit and Truth," worshipping with "thanksgiving" but with "reverence and awe," to worship both with one's "spirit and mind," and to sing "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." Once again, because I am new to this Reformed stuff, I am extra suspicious of any mention to "personal preference" in worship or singing songs. Am I wrong on this? It seems to me that there will always be some sort of personal preference, but if so, how much is too much?
(Also, I do plan on reading up on this, but this is something I very much believe I won't be able to study up on in time to be any good to my friends before they make decisions, or to my brother as I'm sure we will discuss this again.)
This thread has to do with singing songs as part of worship. I realize that there is some difference of opinion, but I hope my question is still answerable.
Firstly, how would you define worship (actually, singing songs as part of worship since "worship" and "singing songs" are equivalent in everyday Evangelical terminology it seems--I may unintentionally slip around in my terminology concerning this)? I've heard it defined as our response to God. Since I am new to this Reformed stuff, I am very suspicious of the use of the first person, so I do not know whether this is what it actually is.
Next, what role do instruments and personal preference play in worship? I have a friend who is considering leaving a church because the worship isn't "passionate enough." This friend had gone on a trip where they visited and helped a Charismatically run daycare for less-fortunate kids. The people there sung the songs with great passion as they sung them with the little kids there.
They used hand motions and the songs had lyrics such as (and remember, they were "little kid" songs): "Jesus is my superhero, You're my star, my Best Friend" and "Everything's okay and everything's alright 'cause I've got Jesus in my life." Even the "adult" songs were sung passionately though not necessarily with hand motions. My friend coming back to the church noticed that people there were not as "passionate" in their singing. My friend says "I cannot sing anymore here. I need to leave because I cannot worship God here." As another question then, is this a valid reason to leave a church? I must admit, the kind of songs where you get your whole body into it and sing of God as though He is right there near to you and responding to you outside of His Word is very attractive, but is it true or right?
Next, as part of all this, I tried to keep my mouth shut, but I was pressed on this issue. How was I to respond? That they were being selfish and not truly worshipping God? That's a pretty hefty accusation considering I know little enough of this issue as it is, and to make it more difficult, I know that none would care for the theology behind any reasons I would have for God choosing how we should worship Him instead of the other way around. I instead asked a question, "What would God want for worship?" My friend answered that He would probably want people to be passionate in their worship.
Anyway, part of the argument I was given while discussing this with my brother afterwords was that instruments are useful for stirring the emotions so that we can worship God better. Instruments help us focus our attention on God so that we can actually worship Him. Some worship better if their emotions are stirred while others are not, and that is fine.
I continued to answer in "I don't knows" because I really don't when I was questioned by him as he said, "Do you really believe that people who are unable to worship in one way but are able to worship in another aren't really worshipping? You say that hymns or contemporary doesn't matter, but it certainly does. What about people who do hymns and cannot adjust to contemporary worship? Are they not really worshipping too? Are not the style and instruments allowing to worship better? I myself have an easier time worshipping with instruments such as guitars etc. I am telling you sincerely that I am worshipping God. Are you saying that I am not doing so either? I find it hard to believe that all these people would be wrong considering they are really Christians. However, do you doubt that I am wrong too?" How in the world could I respond to something like that?
This argument was given to me by my brother as part of a conversation about the church that my friend goes to not being "passionate" enough. He said that they should really get a guitar since although they do contemporary worship they do not have one, and the guitar would allow people to worship better. I said that if they could not worship without the guitar they would not worship any better with it. That's when I was given the argument that instruments are helpful for some by stirring their emotions so that they can worship God. Is this a valid argument? If I get more on this argument from him--since I doubt this will be over any time soon--I'll post it here to make sure we all understand what the argument actually is.
Finally, are there any resources available on the Internet on this subject which are down-to-earth for laypeople who care nothing for theology because theology is scary since it is "complicated?"
Am I wrong in any of what I have said above? I hardly understand what's involved in the Regulative Principle of Worship though I know what it is, and my knowledge of what is invovled is currently restricted to worshipping in "Spirit and Truth," worshipping with "thanksgiving" but with "reverence and awe," to worship both with one's "spirit and mind," and to sing "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs." Once again, because I am new to this Reformed stuff, I am extra suspicious of any mention to "personal preference" in worship or singing songs. Am I wrong on this? It seems to me that there will always be some sort of personal preference, but if so, how much is too much?
(Also, I do plan on reading up on this, but this is something I very much believe I won't be able to study up on in time to be any good to my friends before they make decisions, or to my brother as I'm sure we will discuss this again.)
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