Using Instruments in Worship

[Andrew P.C.]

why should instruments be added under the Davidic order on this view, when they weren't there under the Mosaic?

Are you saying they weren’t around under Moses?

“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. 5 When ye blow an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. 6 When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. 7 But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. 8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations. 9 And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. 10 Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the Lord your God.”

Numbers 10

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Okay, so what does claiming use of musical instruments is a circumstance actually justify? I understand the argument that some say it aids the singing. But that is not all they are used for. As I've said often, I've never been in a Presbyterian church that used musical instruments that solely used them 'as an aid to the singing.' Before the worship, there is usually a prelude and usually with no singing, and I'm sure never with singing by the congregation. It is a performance (the more irrepressible cannot refrain from amening or clapping if it is especially pleasing/moving to them). Ditto the offertory. How is the offertory aiding the collection (for those that approve of such a thing during the service)? What circumstance that is in need of meeting is the prelude answering?

 

[iainduguid]

I don't have time to make the biblical case, since it requries a systematic understanding of the nature of OT worship and the changes into the NT. I believe it was offered as a "compelling thought" rather than an argument anyway. To leave some more pieces in this way of thinking, the psalms need to be understood as prophetic literature. David is viewed as prophet in the OT and the NT. The NT often makes use of their prophetic nature for the instruction of the church. If one views the psalms with an eye to prophecy, one will notice the psalms have a universal call to praise the Lord. This call grows as the books within the psalms move forward to the end point of psalm 150. As with all prophecy, there are NT realities described in terms of OT institutions (such as in Isaiah; note that the usage of the psalms in the NT show that they speak from the perspective of the NT, "today"), but the point of the prophecy is to describe the NT realities.

When this is understood, one will notice that psalm 98 calls the Gentiles to praise with harps, trumpets, etc. One will notice psalm 150 calls everything that has breath to praise the Lord with a variety of instruments. How are the Gentiles supposed to do this? These instruments were appointed by David for Levites and not for the common person to take up and use in the worship assembly. How will they join this Levitical choir and instrumentation? And these instruments, being attached to the temple, have long since disappeared. This suggests that the instruments here are speaking of the praise of the Gentiles, which we know continues. Yes, there were some Gentiles under the OT praising the Lord, etc., but this must be looked at redemptive-historically, since psalms such as 98 are looking toward that time when the Gentiles are brought into Israel to praise the Lord.

Other lines of evidence that lead to this. 1 Chronicles 16 (already mentioned) has the Davidic instruments set up in connection with a psalm that calls to the Gentiles. Even some pro-instrument (as in, instruments as an element) recognize the connection between the orcestration of the instruments and the calling of the Gentiles to praise the Lord. Almost every psalm (potentially all of them; I have not finished studying this part yet) that mentions the use of Davidic instruments has some connection to the calling of the Gentiles, e.g., psalm 108 mentions David praising the Lord among the nations upon the heels of praising the Lord with the psaltery and harp. Psalm 33 has a call for the earth to fear the lord, after telling the righteous to praise the Lord with an harp. Furthermore, in Revelation where all OT imagery returns, we see harps return in connection with the praise of the saints. As incense symbolized their prayers, harps symbolize their praise; confirming the association of OT Davidic instruments with praise under the NT and so the manner in which the Gentiles could be said to praise the Lord with an harp in psalm 98 (indeed, in Revelation 5 we note again a reference to redemption from all nations). Romans 15 connects the praise of Christ among the nations to various OT psalms, some including mentions of praise with Davidic instruments (and has the Gentiles praising with one voice with the rest of God's people, even as the instruments were said to do in Chronicles). Hebrews 13 shows that the sacrifice of praise is to be made with the fruit of lips, rather than with Davidic instruments, further suggesting their association with praise.

Questions as to why these instruments were not used before seem to me irrelevant to the question as to what they represented once they were instituted. But although I am not sure exactly what's up with the trumpets, it is clear that they represented something terrifying in the Mosaic institution but became associated with joy in the Davidic institution; perhaps a representation of how the law is sweetened under the gospel (for though the Mosaic ritual had sacrifice, etc., the gospel is more clearly seen under the Davidic ritual given the addition of a service of song with songs that call the Gentiles to praise)? Also, it is clear the Davidic institution is an embellishment of the previous one: the trumpets remain and more instruments are added as the Levites who had one task are now needing another task. It should also be noted that there is a progressive nature to revelation, so I do not see why everything that the Davidic instruments represented ought to have been present in the Mosaic worship ritual. If one feels one must answer the question: it would seem the Lord was pleased in the progress of revelation to await the Davidic institution, especially given the connection between David and Christ in the NT, since Christ is the key to the calling of the Gentiles (Romans 15). Given how much the calling of the Gentiles occurs in jubilant psalms, it also seems fitting that this part of the progress of revelation (i.e., including Gentile praise in the stated worship; the mystery of the Gentiles was revealed earlier, of course) would occur with the institution of a service of song to praise the Lord.

There are still some minor difficulties to sort out (to my own mind; I'm still thinking about this/studying this), but they do not seem to me to be insuperable. It is hard to ignore the evidence of the connection of the Davidic instruments with the calling of the Gentiles, however other details fit into this evidence.


in my opinion (seriously, just opining/wondering), those who are pro-instrument and view instruments as an element of worship or as something circumstantial to the OT worship will likely not see this as a compelling thought because of a different systematic understanding of the OT worship rituals, etc. But those who are anti-instrument in worship will likely find this a compelling thought (although no careful argument has been made) because the process used to arrive at the view will have already started incorporating that systematic understanding needed to see it.


To clarify the acapella position, it is not necessary to figure out what exactly the instruments represented to know they were part of the ceremonial worship system, as with any other ceremonial worship practice. It is clear from the OT that they were especially incorporated into its worship and associated with sacrifice. It is clear they came with specific instructions for their use that cannot be carried out today. It is clear from the NT that worshipping God by "elements of the world," by "things that are made," or by "carnal ordinances" are what constitutes ceremonial worship. Instruments are material objects and things that are made and were used to worship God. The NT also classifying instruments as "lifeless things" puts beyond doubt that the instruments were part of those carnal ordinances, the NT being characterized by living stones and calling for living voices (and only worshipping God by two material ordinances: baptism and the Lord's supper). Hebrews also points out we have not come to the sound of a trump, showing the ceremonial usage of the instruments that we no longer are to have (the trumpets were in place to symbolize the sound of the trump on Sinai; the other instruments were embellished upon this; since NT reality is something other than Sinai, this shows the instruments belonged to a former dispensation). And so forth (e.g., the arguments from Hebrews 13 and Ephesians/Colossians given by Rev. Barnes above).

(Of course, in the OT, the worship ordinances were simply all there together. We cannot determine what was or was not ceremonial without instruction from the NT as to what constitutes ceremonial worship. Having consulted the NT, we can then also see indications in the OT of the ceremonial nature of some ordinances, e.g., how praise is preferred to sacrifice shows its non-ceremonial nature.)

Are you saying they weren’t around under Moses?

“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. 5 When ye blow an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. 6 When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. 7 But when the congregation is to be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. 8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance for ever throughout your generations. 9 And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the Lord your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies. 10 Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your God: I am the Lord your God.”

Numbers 10

Yes. Trumpets were employed as a signal. to summon the people to war or to worship, but that is not really a musical function. It's like the military use of drum and bugle. Musical instruments as part of the worship belongs distinctly to the Temple ritual, as opposed to the Tabernacle. So you could have sacrifices without instruments - and you can also have instruments without sacrifices as Nehemiah 12:27 makes clear It is simply false to say that instruments are inseparably linked to sacrifice.

 

[timfost]

Okay, so what does claiming use of musical instruments is a circumstance actually justify? I understand the argument that some say it aids the singing. But that is not all they are used for. As I've said often, I've never been in a Presbyterian church that used musical instruments that solely used them 'as an aid to the singing.' Before the worship, there is usually a prelude and usually with no singing, and I'm sure never with singing by the congregation. It is a performance (the more irrepressible cannot refrain from amening or clapping if it is especially pleasing/moving to them). Ditto the offertory. How is the offertory aiding the collection (for those that approve of such a thing during the service)? What circumstance that is in need of meeting is the prelude answering?

Isn't a prelude before the worship service?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Usually before the call to worship, yes. But given the use of music similarly after the call, I think knowing what circumstance it is meeting needs answering. I mean, why do it? And if prior to the call gives carte blanche, why is my irrepressible friend shushed for clapping? Or, why is a dance troupe or any other kind of performing art off limits for the prelude?

Isn't a prelude before the worship service?

 

[Afterthought]

Musical instruments as part of the worship belongs distinctly to the Temple ritual, as opposed to the Tabernacle. So you could have sacrifices without instruments - and you can also have instruments without sacrifices as Nehemiah 12:27 makes clear It is simply false to say that instruments are inseparably linked to sacrifice.

The trumpets were also blown over the sacrifices as a memorial on the feast days. That is a use of instruments in worship. But it is fine if sacrifices could be performed without instruments, especially before the Temple ritual, since that is not the issue at hand.

Nehemiah makes mention of "purification" and afterwards burnt offerings on the occasion, paralleling 2 Chronicles 5 when the ark was moved to the temple (also with burnt offerings; indeed, Solomon sacrificed not on the brasen altar because of all the sacrifices). 1 Chronicles 16 shows how the musical instruments can be linked to sacrifice without an actual sacrifice taking place at the same location as the instrumentalists. We are not told in Nehemiah when the sacrifices were made so far as the instruments are concerned, but everything is said to be done as according to the commandment of David. Furthermore, Nehemiah is clear that these were those who were to give thanks and praise unto the Lord with instruments; the idea of their temple service that was associated with sacrifice is implicit, even if they are bringing these instrumentalists outside of their ordinary role to perform their ceremonial service in another way for this extraordinary occasion (there must have been a prophet around to write the book, so presumably there would be a prophet around to assist them with these directions and/or deduce from 2 Chronicles 5 what to do for this service; or maybe some deduction from Numbers 10 since this would be a day of gladness, thus further solidfiying how the instruments elaborated on the trumpet).

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

So, honestly I am more confused than when I first started the thread. I know it's nobody's fault, it's just that there are multiple views to every argument.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

So, honestly I am more confused than when I first started the thread. I know it's nobody's fault, it's just that there are multiple views to every argument.

Ryan, just wondering if you ever purchased the John Price book recommended on a previous thread, "Old Light on New Worship."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[timfost]

So, honestly I am more confused than when I first started the thread. I know it's nobody's fault, it's just that there are multiple views to every argument.

Ryan,

This had been a whirlwind of a thread. To try to digest it all at once will certainly give anyone indigestion (to extend the metaphor). I would suggest taking a break from it, praying about it and studying more over time. For me, clarity often comes months after studying something, and at weird times like when mowing the lawn or washing dishes.

Also, it's your elders' job to watch out for the souls of those in their congregation. Not that you don't continue to study, but the Lord has provided a church for you with the worship practice that they have. So as you study, also rest in God's gracious provision for you.

Blessings!

 

[earl40]

So, honestly I am more confused than when I first started the thread. I know it's nobody's fault, it's just that there are multiple views to every argument.

Until you find a good reason to use the gift you have in the worship of the church, simply do not utilize this gift, because those that would advise you against playing instruments are pricking your conscience with good arguments according to the RPW. It is one thing to say one follows the RPW in belief, and really in essence are espousing a NPW, but another to follow it as it was intended by the framers of the WCF. Many (including most dear pastors) will confuse the NPW with the RPW in my experience. I am a member of a PCA church that is growing in a direction that rivals most concert bands. All because the door was opened and like a hurricane once it is opened the winds will eventually blow it open all the way, and effectually almost ruin the worship experience. I thank Our Lord that He is merciful, and that the center of the service is The Word preached.

 

[timfost]

Usually before the call to worship, yes. But given the use of music similarly after the call, I think knowing what circumstance it is meeting needs answering. I mean, why do it? And if prior to the call gives carte blanche, why is my irrepressible friend shushed for clapping? Or, why is a dance troupe or any other kind of performing art off limits for the prelude?

Chris,

Yes, I understand your concern. I know for certain that instrumental music has been elevated too high in some church circles. I know of a church that would have a group come in occasionally to perform arrangements of sacred music and the performance would replace the preaching for that week. Certainly we don't want to allow musical performances of any kind during the worship, and what preceeds the call to worship should help to prepare, not detract, from worship.

When I play the prelude, it consists only of the music we will be singing. The familiar Psalm tunes that we use certainly bring to mind the words of the Psalms. The hymn tunes do the same if they are well known. If they are not well known, the prelude serves to get the tune in the minds of the congregation so that they can sing more confidently a tune with which they are not familiar. I make an effort to play somewhat quietly and melodically during the prelude. I have never heard an "amen" and certainly no one has ever clapped.

We do not receive tithes during the service. They are put in a box prior to the service and are acknowledged during the service with a Scripture reading having to do with giving.

As for the Lord's Supper, the elements are distributed in silence-- no instrumental music.

The postlude consists mostly of music that we sung during worship.

Hope this helps...

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Tim, do you know if your practice reflects simply the practice of your church or generally the historic practice of the RCUS? Traditional mid century modern Presbyterian worship I'm familiar with, the prelude often or usually is not something used later for singing, but some other tune which may or may not evoke words, and often singing or other instruments are added to make it more special or for special occasions which if it was not already, surely to my mind makes it a performance and not something within the limited use you outline. I would question the propriety of using a musical instrument to evoke words to the mind, certainly if it is not sung later, and which may or may not be remembered, over quiet meditation and prayer before the service. In fact, I find anything other than silence makes those two things more difficult. Our church only recently dropped music during the Lord's Supper, for which I'm thankful (it is ruled out even in the small section of the PCA directory which has been made constitutional; the rest is pious advice). I wish they would drop the collection; then no need for an offertory. I drop a check in the plate which is sitting in the entry on the way in so never drop anything in the plate in its passing.

Chris,

Yes, I understand your concern. I know for certain that instrumental music has been elevated too high in some church circles. I know of a church that would have a group come in occasionally to perform arrangements of sacred music and the performance would replace the preaching for that week. Certainly we don't want to allow musical performances of any kind during the worship, and what preceeds the call to worship should help to prepare, not detract, from worship.

When I play the prelude, it consists only of the music we will be singing. The familiar Psalm tunes that we use certainly bring to mind the words of the Psalms. The hymn tunes do the same if they are well known. If they are not well known, the prelude serves to get the tune in the minds of the congregation so that they can sing more confidently a tune with which they are not familiar. I make an effort to play somewhat quietly and melodically during the prelude. I have never heard an "amen" and certainly no one has ever clapped.

We do not receive tithes during the service. They are put in a box prior to the service and are acknowledged during the service with a Scripture reading having to do with giving.

As for the Lord's Supper, the elements are distributed in silence-- no instrumental music.

The postlude consists mostly of music that we sung during worship.

Hope this helps...

 

[timfost]

Tim, do you know if your practice reflects simply the practice of your church or generally the historic practice of the RCUS?

Not sure... I haven't been to enough services in the other churches to know. The only other one in PA is similar to ours, though the prelude is not necessarily the music that will be sung (I'm not of the mind that it has to be, either).

 

[BG]

Tim, do you have a vested interest in music? I know you sometimes play piano at church, do you do that all the time? Are you a music minister? Do you ever play or sing special songs at church or with a group? Are you a music teacher? Do you have a degree in music? Do you believe that God has gifted you in the area of music so you can use it for the church? Does your church have a choir?

Just curious all my children play instruments piano, guitar and ukulele, my oldest is a double major, music and biology.

BTW I play the guitar, not stuff you could play in church in less the sermon topic was depravity then i could play the George Thurogood song Bad to the bone.

 

[timfost]

Tim, do you have a vested interest in music?

I work in music full time. My church work is volunteer.

I know you sometimes play piano at church, do you do that all the time?

Every week.

Are you a music minister? Do you ever play or sing special songs at church or with a group?

What is a music minister?

No special music.

Are you a music teacher? Do you have a degree in music?

I teach private lessons and I teach a piano skills class and some applied lessons at a college. I have a Master of Music in Piano Performance.

Do you believe that God has gifted you in the area of music so you can use it for the church? Does your church have a choir?

Not all gifts are appropriate for use in church, but I believe music is. No choir--all congregational singing.

Just curious all my children play instruments piano, guitar and ukulele, my oldest is a double major, music and biology.

BTW I play the guitar, not stuff you could play in church in less the sermon topic was depravity then i could play the George Thurogood song Bad to the bone.

We should get together and jam sometime!