Help me understand the ascension

[chuckd]

In Jesus' ascension, he (his humanity) sat down at the right hand of God. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Reformed deny transubstantiation because his humanity cannot be everywhere at once. Assuming this, and Jesus' humanity is still sitting down at the right hand of God, how does this happen? God has no body. It's as if it's using half literal, half anthropomorphic language.

 

[Hamalas]

God as One has no body, God as Father has no body, God as Holy Spirit has no body, but God as Son does, and will always have, a body.

 

[Romans922]

Chuck, when you use the word 'transubstantiation' (RC view), I think you mean to use the word 'consubstantiation' which is the Lutheran view of what you describe (i.e. "humanity cannot be everywhere at once").

The Lutheran view is contrasted with the Reformed view especially at the Lord's Supper. Which I think this question also has great implications there.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

When Jesus was with us, bodily, still then his divine nature did not cease to be, it did not cease to be a divine nature, and possessed of every facet or attribute of divinity. That is, he (the Person) did according to his human nature what was proper to it, and he did according to his divine nature that which was proper to it. So, for example according to his divinity, Jesus was still upholding everything in the universe (work he had done since Creation) while he was walking on dusty roads in Galilee in his humanity. Each nature was perfectly expressed in whatever environment it was found. The human did not directly express divinity; nor did the divine directly express humanity.

Jesus humanity did mediate certain aspects of divinity, i.e. miraculous power, the power to take his human life back again in resurrection, knowledge of the heart of others. In general, we recognize that Jesus' mediated divine exercise (as a man among us) flowed from his immeasurable anointing by Holy Spirit (Mt.12:28), the same Spirit he distributes (baptizes) to his people, Acts 2.

But there was a divine quality to Jesus recognized by his disciples, that he was more than simply one who was anointed "above his fellows," above any of the previous mediators (types) by Holy Spirit. He owned the divinity that rested with him. Those who spent time with him, whose faith was reposed in him more and more, eventually left behind all lesser thoughts concerning him (e.g. that he was a good man, a Spirit-empowered man, the best man ever, or even merely the greatest human possible); and they worshiped him as the incomparable Revealed God, as Emmanuel, as the Angel of the Lord.

What Jesus was then, he still is now. His human nature is in heaven--it has flesh and bone; it has spacial qualities: length, breadth, height, density, composition. He's there in body, and not here as he used to be--neither in Jerusalem, nor in London, nor in Buenos Aries, nor any other place. That is the message of the Ascension. "From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead," his humanity and his divinity together, "and every eye shall see him." His divine nature is everywhere (ubiquity, omnipresence); it has never been limited because it is divine, and his divinity is eternal, and he's never stopped being fully divine at any time.

Finitum non capax infinitum, the finite does not comprehend (contain, surround entirely) the infinite. Or to put it the other way: the infinite (his divinity) supersedes or goes beyond the finite (his humanity). But he, that is his Person, possesses both entirely, and so we confess it is not improper to speak attributively about him one way or the other, as per Act.20:28 and the blood of God (see WCF.8.7).

So, we should have no greater difficulties with Jesus' present state, and the hypostatic union of his two natures, than we would have had if we'd known him while he was still walking among us; than we know him in the Scriptures as the breathing, speaking Word of God.

Persons act, natures are, to use a classic formula.

 

[Peairtach]

In Jesus' ascension, he (his humanity) sat down at the right hand of God. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Reformed deny transubstantiation because his humanity cannot be everywhere at once. Assuming this, and Jesus' humanity is still sitting down at the right hand of God, how does this happen? God has no body. It's as if it's using half literal, half anthropomorphic language.

Christ was and is fully man and fully God, not half-man and half-God.

In Heaven He has a human body and human soul, as He had on earth, but being glorified and exalted in His state of glorification in Heaven, rather than His state of humiliation, on Earth, His human nature has new qualities appropriate to His Heavenly existence and His exalted position as Mediator.

He is there with "the souls of just men made perfect" (Heb. 12:23), and the souls and glorified bodies of Enoch, Moses(?), Elijah, and those saints who rose from their graves in Jerusalem at the time of His resurrection (Matt.27:52-53).

"It doth not yet appear what we shall be" (I John 3:2)

"We shall be changed" (I Cor.15:51-52)

There appears to some extent be a typology in Scripture where Heaven is associated with "up" and "above", whereas Hell is associated with the grave, "down" and "below".

Thus Christ's entrance into Heaven via a cloud, and clouds are also emblems of God's glory in Scripture, is by ascending, even although Heaven is not far away from any of God's people ( e.g. Heb.12; II Cor.5:8) but just a missed heartbeat.



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[chuckd]

Chuck, when you use the word 'transubstantiation' (RC view), I think you mean to use the word 'consubstantiation' which is the Lutheran view of what you describe (i.e. "humanity cannot be everywhere at once").

The Lutheran view is contrasted with the Reformed view especially at the Lord's Supper. Which I think this question also has great implications there.

I was under the impression that both believe in some way Jesus' body is related to the Lord's Supper. So both would require his body to be everywhere at once.

What Jesus was then, he still is now. His human nature is in heaven--it has flesh and bone; it has spacial qualities: length, breadth, height, density, composition.

Thank you Reverend for your detailed response. My question comes down to this point. If his human nature is in heaven with "length, breadth, height, density, composition", does it require that heaven itself have length, breadth, and height? Is this what we call outer space?

And if his human nature sat down at the right hand of God, does it require God to have length, breadth, and height? Obviously God does not, so I would think it is using anthropomorphic language. But yet, Jesus does have a body that did sit down at the right hand of God! This is where I'm confused.

 

[Romans922]

Transubstantiation is the belief that when the bread and wine are consecrated, the bread and the wine literally become the body and blood of Jesus. This view is that Jesus is where He is, but also when consecrated He is literally in the bread/wine.

Consubstantiation is the belief that the 'substance' of the body and blood of Jesus is present in, with, and under the bread and wine (so not that the bread and wine is literally the body/blood of Jesus). Thus, this view is that Jesus is everywhere, even in, with, and under the elements.

 

[au5t1n]

The responses so far have focused mainly on Christ and His natures, and that is certainly helpful, but it appears to me that Chuck is mainly asking how Christ can sit down at the right hand of the Father when the Father has no body.

 

[Cymro]

The right hand of God is a homely term which we humans use as the place of power.
It speaks of the designation of Christ to have all power in heaven and earth. He reigns
as Godman in that place of exaltation and supremacy till His enemies be made His
footstool. God is Spirit and has no right hand.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Wherever Jesus' body is, it is not within the confines of the universe. But beyond it. Whatever the nature of that place (are 3-dimentions enough to describe it?), Jesus is just fine there, respecting his body.

So far as "the right hand' of the Father, we shouldn't conceive of the Father in terms other than spirit. That language is anthropomorphic. Heaven is another locality from here. But it is "the dwelling place of God."

When God makes some "place" a special location for his revelation, he doesn't cease to be omnipresent. Burning bush? It's "holy ground," because God is there. But isn't God everywhere? Yes. Does that mean we can't wear shoes anywhere? No, the bush-location was special, and not even for all time but only then, as God made himself present to Moses in a special way.

Our worship services are a special meeting of God with his people. "We are come to Mt. Zion..." Heb.12. If I'm with him here, and you there, is God divided? No, in fact you and I have come together by faith to be with him where he is specially in heaven. Is God still everywhere? Yes.

Is the "right hand" location a special place for his presence too? Sure.