Advice on transition to PCA Congregation

[Perichoresian]

Hey all. I've posted about this previously (https://puritanboard.com/threads/leading-family-through-a-potential-church-transition.117424/) but my family will soon be transitioning from a very large (~5000) high-commitment conservative non-denominational fellowship to a smedium (~80-100) PCA congregation in our area - which we are excited but also nervous about. We are accustomed to fairly deep involvement with the church, relationally and practically, have two small children, and look forward trying to hitting the ground running. I also understand many of the assumptions and ideas we have will be checked and challenged. I am trying to help make the transition as smooth and as possible for my wife and two small kids.

Because so many here have extensive experience leading and/or attending under this tradition: what advice, recommendation, or encouragement would you give someone coming from a background like ours to the PCA? As you can imagine, we dont have too many close friends/family who can offer their perspective...

If you need more clarity or context on our situation im more than happy to share! Thanks in advance.

 

[chuckd]

That kind of transition will come with a couple of challenges, for the parents and children:

1. In a large congregation, you can pretty easily find friends in your same walk of life - family with two small children. In a congregation of 80-100, your choices are slimmer. You'll have to work harder to make connections. This may not be a big deal in the "honeymoon" period, but may become frustrating after 5-10 years in the church.

2. The "programs" will probably not exist. This may sound like a positive now, but not having other children the same age as yours can become disappointing. If you home school, it would be nice for your kids to have some friends at church to socialize with. If in public school, the Sunday school or youth group would be nice to have so they have some Christian friends. What if the only kids at church aren't nice, or they don't connect?

3. This sets aside the "feel" of church - a more formal setting than a non-denominational church. Do your kids stay with you the entire service now? They'll have to learn how to sit still for an hour and/or participate depending on their age.

 

[Perichoresian]

That kind of transition will come with a couple of challenges, for the parents and children:

1. In a large congregation, you can pretty easily find friends in your same walk of life - family with two small children. In a congregation of 80-100, your choices are slimmer. You'll have to work harder to make connections. This may not be a big deal in the "honeymoon" period, but may become frustrating after 5-10 years in the church.

2. The "programs" will probably not exist. This may sound like a positive now, but not having other children the same age as yours can become disappointing. If you home school, it would be nice for your kids to have some friends at church to socialize with. If in public school, the Sunday school or youth group would be nice to have so they have some Christian friends. What if the only kids at church aren't nice, or they don't connect?

3. This sets aside the "feel" of church - a more formal setting than a non-denominational church. Do your kids stay with you the entire service now? They'll have to learn how to sit still for an hour and/or participate depending on their age.

Thanks for these - I do expect the climb a bit steeper towards finding satisfying peer relationships. Im thankful that the associate pastor is in a very similar life stage as us but i know the relationship s between pastor and congregation may be very different than what I am used to. I look forward to God using this as a period of refinement for us to lower our standards and expectations but expect it will be disappointing at times.

Luckily our current/past church isn't big on "programs" per se. But we hope to find a play group or some kind of regular gathering with the church they can attend in addition to Sunday activities. There does seem to be a sizeable amount of young families where we are going so I am open to pioneering something of the sort as well! We don't plan to home school, but will try and do Christian private schooling if possible, so that helps. Also we plan to maintain connections with people from our past church where possible.

We've been working on this. It'll be a challenge but in visiting churches our kids did alright - this was one of the selling points for me in reformed worship. Looking forward greatly to having them with us. they are still pretty small though so utilizing childcare when necessary is available for us which is helpful. They love singing (which we dont currently have) and the interactive aspect of the service will hopefully be a plus.

 

[B.L.]

Because so many here have extensive experience leading and/or attending under this tradition: what advice, recommendation, or encouragement would you give someone coming from a background like ours to the PCA? As you can imagine, we dont have too many close friends/family who can offer their perspective...

I made this transition myself many moons ago. Go slow and lead your family during this transition by modeling humility and resist the temptation to critically compare your new experiences to your old ones. While this is unavoidable to a certain extent, this is where humility will be a great friend. I would also start reflecting on the last two PCA membership vows regardless of how far off you are from considering joining. These will help you focus your gifts to the benefit of the local body while reminding you of your responsibilities should you seek membership. I think a common mistake some make is to not think hard on these two vows when entering the PCA from another ecclesial body.

• Do you promise to support the Church in its worship and work to the best of your ability?
• Do you submit yourselves to the government and discipline of the Church, and promise to study its purity and peace?

 

[Perichoresian]

I made this transition myself many moons ago. Go slow and lead your family during this transition by modeling humility and resist the temptation to critically compare your new experiences to your old ones. While this is unavoidable to a certain extent, this is where humility will be a great friend. I would also start reflecting on the last two PCA membership vows regardless of how far off you are from considering joining. These will help you focus your gifts to the benefit of the local body while reminding you of your responsibilities should you seek membership. I think a common mistake some make is to not think hard on these two vows when entering the PCA from another ecclesial body.

• Do you promise to support the Church in its worship and work to the best of your ability?
• Do you submit yourselves to the government and discipline of the Church, and promise to study its purity and peace?

Appreciate the insight there - looking forward to reflecting more on these. I may reach out regarding your experience since its hard sometimes to find people of similar stripes! We come from a church which does practice church discipline and emphasizes every-member ministry sometimes to an excessive degree so I expect a lot of adjustment and assumption-checking early on. Ill take to heart what you shared and appreciate prayer for God to continue to sustain and deepen our convictions.

 

[Theoretical]

One observation I've had as a member of both very large and very small churches, along with 2 more in the middle is that big evangelical churches tend to be most focused on getting people of similar ages and stages together as Sunday School classes or small groups, with various degrees of compulsion. On the most extreme side, one local church used to and for all I know still does have a policy that as soon as someone is married, they're immediately ejected from their mandatory, high-contact singles small group and dropped into a mandatory, high-contact marrieds group, simply they're now married and don't have anything in common with their old singles group anymore. The point is that many of these big churches have a lot of different segments in them where Family 1 is involved in A, D, T, and Z, Family 2 has B, D, Q, Y, Family 3 has A, D, S, Y involvements, and Family 4 does C, D, and Q but is encouraged to be more involved.

In the small or larger but few-programs NAPARC context, there tend to be more opportunities by necessity of cross-generational and cross-stage associations, out of necessity. Where this becomes tricky is when you're the only one or two people in the congregation in that similar boat, especially if you're new and or the church is a little more reserved/standoffish. Depending on your particular context, that might mean instead of getting to know 5-6 other families all with young kids, you might be looking at befriending the 40-50 year old never married lady, a couple with some teenagers, a couple of empty nester families, a college student or two, a few single men of varying ages, some elderly folks, and maybe another family or two with kids your age or who still could have additional kids. There probably are a fair number of kids, but they might be older. You might also have blue vs. white collar differences or differences if your church attracts a lot of commuters from other areas - the more confessional the church, the more you get and farther they drive in my experience.

----

Re: previous deep involvement, the number one thing I would tell you to be very cautious about is the question "why don't they have program/ministry/outreach X?" The answer may be simply lack of resources (in which case, you've volunteered yourself), it may be because it is something that does not scale down to a certain point, it may be something indifferent that some churches do and others don't, or it may be something where the church actively will NOT have XYZ program for a particular reason.

One area I do think really important for integrating into the new body is that ideally, most of the church's major activity will be centered on the Lord's Day with secondary stuff on the other days of the week. If they have an evening service, you should go in general, but this is also a very big part of what being involved in the church is when it's low-no program.

If the old church had a big worship band or full-blown orchestra, 99% of small churches would be better served by just having an organist, pianist, or just an acoustic guitar or two, but 50-60 people in a sanctuary can SING. So can 500 or 5000, but the point is that singing scales but an orchestra doesn't, especially in terms of a talent pool.

Think about it like moving from the big city to the small town or even another country. They do things differently, but that doesn't mean better or worse - just differently. If you go to Europe, you pay to use a public toilet, but here if you're polite, you go to a McDonalds or gas station and buy a drink.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I'll be praying for your transition. It is going to be massive. Cataclysmic even. Even if you were staying within the same tradition... the cultural difference between a 5000 person church and an 80-100 person church are simply HUGE too large, in fact, for most on a board like this to appreciate. Add to that the differences related to differing ecclesiastical traditions and conflicting theological systems? Maybe it'll be wonderful. I'm sure at first it'll seem refreshing. Like I said, I'll pray for you!

 

[Edward]

Although most of the points have been covered, there are a few things I'd like to emphasize.

There are reasons that Presbyterians are sometimes referred to as the "frozen chosen" - as a general rule, they are going to be more reserved than you might be used to.

Smallest church I was a member of was a PCUS church of under 50 active members early in my career. Fortunately, economic necessity forced me to move to another state. I don't consider a church of under 100 members viable as a long term proposition. If an established church is under that number, you should ask yourself why. It may be because of distinctives, or it could be that they just aren't welcoming (or it could be that they are geographically disadvantaged, like the small town church where I was a member).

 

[fredtgreco]

Although most of the points have been covered, there are a few things I'd like to emphasize.

There are reasons that Presbyterians are sometimes referred to as the "frozen chosen" - as a general rule, they are going to be more reserved than you might be used to.

Smallest church I was a member of was a PCUS church of under 50 active members early in my career. Fortunately, economic necessity forced me to move to another state. I don't consider a church of under 100 members viable as a long term proposition. If an established church is under that number, you should ask yourself why. It may be because of distinctives, or it could be that they just aren't welcoming (or it could be that they are geographically disadvantaged, like the small town church where I was a member).

There are challenges to a smaller church. I think they are accentuated if you are new to the area and don't have any connections outside of church.

But I have to disagree with Edward here. Even as a pastor of a 400-member church, I know that the average size of both PCA churches and churches in general is under 100. So not only is a sub-100 church viable, but it is also the norm.

 

[DNM300]

I don't consider a church of under 100 members viable as a long term proposition.

Would you explain your thinking a bit on this? I have never heard someone say this. Honestly just curious.

 

[SolaScriptura]

There are challenges to a smaller church. I think they are accentuated if you are new to the area and don't have any connections outside of church.

But I have to disagree with Edward here. Even as a pastor of a 400-member church, I know that the average size of both PCA churches and churches in general is under 100. So not only is a sub-100 church viable, but it is also the norm.

I also think location matters. 100 people in a small rural town is probably doing quite well, though in other areas might be more indicative of problematic issues.

Even my church, at 251 members (we just finished our statistics report) … in our area we are a pretty small church, Though if you transplanted us to most other locales we’d be the biggest church in town.

 

[Edward]

I know that the average size of both PCA churches and churches in general is under 100. So not only is a sub-100 church viable, but it is also the norm.

It's the norm, but a lot are hanging on by a thread. 80 members is going to be about 40 members (assuming singles, including widows and widowers are offset by teenagers and adult children still in the household). With an 80/20 giving profile, that means the church is dependent on 8 people not moving or passing away for 80% of the funding. And in rural areas, where many of the small churches are located, folks aren't moving in to replace losses.

Would you explain your thinking a bit on this? I have never heard someone say this. Honestly just curious.

In a small church, the largest fixed cost may be the pastor's package. But add in rental or maintenance on a facility, insurance, and other recurring costs, But not mission oriented giving, and fixed costs are going to be $150,000 to $200,000 a year. Now, $4,000 per year per family doesn't sound like much, but some folks aren't going to be able to do that. So some folks are going to need to be giving significantly more. (The traditional slogan was that 20% of the people gave 80% of the money, it may be closer to 10% of the people giving 90% of the money in some places.) The impact of the loss of a single large giver is greater the smaller the church.

 

[Perichoresian]

One observation I've had as a member of both very large and very small churches, along with 2 more in the middle is that big evangelical churches tend to be most focused on getting people of similar ages and stages together as Sunday School classes or small groups, with various degrees of compulsion. On the most extreme side, one local church used to and for all I know still does have a policy that as soon as someone is married, they're immediately ejected from their mandatory, high-contact singles small group and dropped into a mandatory, high-contact marrieds group, simply they're now married and don't have anything in common with their old singles group anymore. The point is that many of these big churches have a lot of different segments in them where Family 1 is involved in A, D, T, and Z, Family 2 has B, D, Q, Y, Family 3 has A, D, S, Y involvements, and Family 4 does C, D, and Q but is encouraged to be more involved.

In the small or larger but few-programs NAPARC context, there tend to be more opportunities by necessity of cross-generational and cross-stage associations, out of necessity. Where this becomes tricky is when you're the only one or two people in the congregation in that similar boat, especially if you're new and or the church is a little more reserved/standoffish. Depending on your particular context, that might mean instead of getting to know 5-6 other families all with young kids, you might be looking at befriending the 40-50 year old never married lady, a couple with some teenagers, a couple of empty nester families, a college student or two, a few single men of varying ages, some elderly folks, and maybe another family or two with kids your age or who still could have additional kids. There probably are a fair number of kids, but they might be older. You might also have blue vs. white collar differences or differences if your church attracts a lot of commuters from other areas - the more confessional the church, the more you get and farther they drive in my experience.

----

Re: previous deep involvement, the number one thing I would tell you to be very cautious about is the question "why don't they have program/ministry/outreach X?" The answer may be simply lack of resources (in which case, you've volunteered yourself), it may be because it is something that does not scale down to a certain point, it may be something indifferent that some churches do and others don't, or it may be something where the church actively will NOT have XYZ program for a particular reason.

One area I do think really important for integrating into the new body is that ideally, most of the church's major activity will be centered on the Lord's Day with secondary stuff on the other days of the week. If they have an evening service, you should go in general, but this is also a very big part of what being involved in the church is when it's low-no program.

If the old church had a big worship band or full-blown orchestra, 99% of small churches would be better served by just having an organist, pianist, or just an acoustic guitar or two, but 50-60 people in a sanctuary can SING. So can 500 or 5000, but the point is that singing scales but an orchestra doesn't, especially in terms of a talent pool.

Think about it like moving from the big city to the small town or even another country. They do things differently, but that doesn't mean better or worse - just differently. If you go to Europe, you pay to use a public toilet, but here if you're polite, you go to a McDonalds or gas station and buy a drink.

Thank you for this detailed and well-thought out response! I read this with ym wife las tnight - shes been blown away by the support and insight ive been able to glean on this forum!

Your first paragraph is dead-on where we are now. There is definitely a demographically based chopping up of the congregation, especially on Sundays. This was probably a big reason that we joined initially, but now we see it as a hindrance. i am looking forward to befriending the old church ladies, teenagers, and other 30 somethings like myself lol. My wife and I are both fairly social people so i don't imagine it will be a problem.

I appreciate the apologetic for congregational singing. We will no doubt experience an upgrade in that department as our current services are zero singing. This was one reason my older child really enjoyed visiting the church we are going to - something that brought me joy.

We will definitely be praying now for patience, flexibility, and humility as we transition.

Thankful to God for your warm and insightful answer Scott!
[automerge]1769782526[/automerge]

I'll be praying for your transition. It is going to be massive. Cataclysmic even. Even if you were staying within the same tradition... the cultural difference between a 5000 person church and an 80-100 person church are simply HUGE too large, in fact, for most on a board like this to appreciate. Add to that the differences related to differing ecclesiastical traditions and conflicting theological systems? Maybe it'll be wonderful. I'm sure at first it'll seem refreshing. Like I said, I'll pray for you!

Thank you. This change has already been deeply impactful both in welcomed and unwelcomed ways haha. The switch does line up with our settled theological and ecclesiological convictions as of the last two years. We have moved from Dispensational/arminian/evangelical baptist --> reformed. Still a little iffy on the baptism issue, but willing to be persuaded, looking forward to discussions with out pastors on this! Long story short, this choice was fairly specific and targeted on those accounts. The fellowship we've had there has been good so we are hopeful about the church culture and environment. That all being said, our prerogative is firmly to serve, and look forward to the ways a smaller church opens to door for greater opportunities to be involved. We appreciate the prayer ben - keep it up! We need it.

 

[Perichoresian]

I also think location matters. 100 people in a small rural town is probably doing quite well, though in other areas might be more indicative of problematic issues.

Even my church, at 251 members (we just finished our statistics report) … in our area we are a pretty small church, Though if you transplanted us to most other locales we’d be the biggest church in town.

Thats interesting.

Were not in a particularly small town - Columbus, OH. Albeit politically liberal, and this is congregation is in a suburb. I wonder if its lack of visibility/footprint for the church itself in the city, or lack of evangelism on the part of its members? Something i'm eager to explore and help with if possible. Frankly the size of the church feels like a plus right but if there's a slight weakness in this area or blind spot it may be something to look at.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I think everyone has great advice here. I'll just give you a caution from my own experience. We went from a non-denominational church to a pca, and we just ate up everything we were given without question, because we thought being in such a church environment, surely they must have everything right. But my advice would be to not just blindly submit, not to think more highly of somebody just because of their theology, and to continue to use a lot of discernment. We submitted to a pastor that ended up being a pretty controlling and spiritually abusive person, and created a culture in the church that was almost cult-like. If something doesn't feel right in your discernment, don't just presume that it is right because you're in a reformed church.

 

[Perichoresian]

I think everyone has great advice here. I'll just give you a caution from my own experience. We went from a non-denominational church to a pca, and we just ate up everything we were given without question, because we thought being in such a church environment, surely they must have everything right. But my advice would be to not just blindly submit, not to think more highly of somebody just because of their theology, and to continue to use a lot of discernment. We submitted to a pastor that ended up being a pretty controlling and spiritually abusive person, and created a culture in the church that was almost cult-like. If something doesn't feel right in your discernment, don't just presume that it is right because you're in a reformed church.

Appreciate that Ryan. We are for sure guilty of this in the past, often times these teachings or positions are explicit but sometimes implicit as well which may be why it took so long for my wife and I to come to our own theological convictions independent of the institution we were apart of. I feel the urge to just dive in the deep end for the sake of that security and belonging, this is a great reminder that we don't want to make the same mistake twice, and vocalize our questions and/or concerns respectfully when appropriate. Have you shared on here what those practices or teachings were that you now identify as abusive or controlling? I could guess but it may be helpful to hear. Of course I understand if you dont.

Thanks!

 

[Ed Walsh]

Because so many here have extensive experience leading and/or attending under this tradition: what advice, recommendation, or encouragement would you give someone coming from a background like ours to the PCA? As you can imagine, we dont have too many close friends/family who can offer their perspective...

I was an elder for 11 years in an OPC congregation in New Jersey. And providentially we had to move to Pennsylvania which put us pretty far from that congregation. We joined the PCA church and have been there for 15 years or so. What you need to know about the PCA church in general and why I can't advise you particularly is that they are all over the board. There is a much wider range among churches in the PCA then in the OPC. From exclusive somebody to let's have a play instead of a sermon on Sunday. Well maybe I'm exaggerating just a little. But the OPC is much more monolithic then the PCA. Our church has a number of practices that I personally don't approve of but they are a very loving and giving congregation and are definitely true Christians. I love the people there, but when Christmas comes I usually skip a couple weeks. That's just an example. I hope you find a good sound church when you visit. The size is about right for very intimate friendships.

 

[Edward]

What you need to know about the PCA church in general and why I can't advise you particularly is that they are all over the board.

Bears repeating. Exercise discernment before picking a PCA church. There is a wide range even within Presbyteries. The experience that one would find at @NaphtaliPress 's church and at my church which is probably about 5 miles away in a straight line (probably closer to 10 by car). would be completely different. And both are theologically sound.

But not all PCA churches are theologically sound - some are quite bad. Even some Presbyteries have issues. Metropolitan Atlanta is split between 3 presbyteries, for example, one of which is historically conservative, one of which is moderate, and one of which is liberal. For years, there was no defined boundary between Georgia Foothills and Metro Atlanta , that was finally rectified a few years ago, and at one point there was a Metro Atlanta congregation that was meeting in Northwest Georgia Presbytery - possibly to the delight of both Presbyteries (I don't see it on the current denominational map). And let's not forget the recent scandals in Missouri and Potomac Presbyteries.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Bears repeating. Exercise discernment before picking a PCA church. There is a wide range even within Presbyteries. The experience that one would find at @NaphtaliPress 's church and at my church which is probably about 5 miles away in a straight line (probably closer to 10 by car). would be completely different. And both are theologically sound.

But not all PCA churches are theologically sound - some are quite bad. Even some Presbyteries have issues. Metropolitan Atlanta is split between 3 presbyteries, for example, one of which is historically conservative, one of which is moderate, and one of which is liberal. For years, there was no defined boundary between Georgia Foothills and Metro Atlanta , that was finally rectified a few years ago, and at one point there was a Metro Atlanta congregation that was meeting in Northwest Georgia Presbytery - possibly to the delight of both Presbyteries (I don't see it on the current denominational map). And let's not forget the recent scandals in Missouri and Potomac Presbyteries.

Ed, how would you draw the boundaries of what defines conservative, moderate, and liberal; or are they fuzzy? Liberal needs to be distinguished from what we mean by liberal when speaking of the mainline, and conservative could be broken out to two groups, those that strictly adhere to the confession and those that take the typical 2 exceptions on the 2nd and 4th commandments. These divisions are obviously based on the church officers; I wager a large majority of the population of the PCA in the pew is not particularly strictly confessional.

 

[PeterR]

Mystified by the idea that there are churches with no congregational singing!

 

[Perichoresian]

Mystified by the idea that there are churches with no congregational singing!

Yeah, it’s definitely a thing, I don’t know how many churches out there do this but ours did with little pushback. There’s some exegetical arguments made around the usual NT passages used, and a pragmatic argument about its lack of appeal to newcomers/non-believers. Both of these I passively accepted for a long time. Theologically we’ve moved a lot.

 

[Ed Walsh]

Yeah, it’s definitely a thing, I don’t know how many churches out there do this but ours did with little pushback. There’s some exegetical arguments made around the usual NT passages used, and a pragmatic argument about its lack of appeal to newcomers/non-believers. Both of these I passively accepted for a long time. Theologically we’ve moved a lot

This is new to me. And it is shocking and wrong. The church does not exist to cater to the newcomer/nonbelievers.

I was planning on posting a number of verses to prove my point but there's just too many of them, so I picked two to represent the whole.

1 Chronicles 16:23-24, 33 KJV
[23] Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; Shew forth from day to day his salvation. [24] Declare his glory among the heathen; His marvellous works among all nations.

[33] Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, Because he cometh to judge the earth.

I am totally baffled by this one.

 

[Edward]

and conservative could be broken out to two groups, those that strictly adhere to the confession and those that take the typical 2 exceptions on the 2nd and 4th commandments. These divisions are obviously based on the church officers; I wager a large majority of the population of the PCA in the pew is not particularly strictly confessional.

I would say that the strictly confessional are conservative; when you start taking exceptions, you are moderate. And I agree that the vast majority of the folks in the pews that think about the issues are moderate. (I do think that a line can be drawn between the conservatives and the folks commonly referred to as "TR"

On the other end of the spectrum, the liberals, are the folks that hold the standards in contempt. Egalitarians, Side-B, etc. and the folks that enable them.

I do concede that the lines are blurry at all points. There is a somewhat helpful list of liberals published by Ince and his collaborators. I was scanning their list last night, and noticed that there was a woman that identified herself as a deacon who had signed on. Short answer. If the pastor is on the Ince list, don't join that church. If the church has "Shepherdesses", don't join that church. If the church as women identified as 'deacons' or 'deaconesses, don't join that church if there is any viable alternative. (Needless to say, I'm talking about the PCA. ARP is a different ball game.

I remember years ago (pre-internet), the Day's Inn motel chain published a directory where they rated the quality of their motels. Perhaps the Admin. Comm. could do the same. Dark green for TR and strict subscriptionist, Light green for moderate, yellow for deaconesses, and red for egalitarians and side Bers. (I thought deaconesses were bad, until I saw what is tolerated up in Potomic Presbytery.)

 

[SolaScriptura]

In a small church, the largest fixed cost may be the pastor's package. But add in rental or maintenance on a facility, insurance, and other recurring costs, But not mission oriented giving, and fixed costs are going to be $150,000 to $200,000 a year. Now, $4,000 per year per family doesn't sound like much, but some folks aren't going to be able to do that. So some folks are going to need to be giving significantly more. (The traditional slogan was that 20% of the people gave 80% of the money, it may be closer to 10% of the people giving 90% of the money in some places.) The impact of the loss of a single large giver is greater the smaller the church.

This observation underscores a very real and practical issue in small churches that happens so regularly that it is all but axiomatic: while not absolutely true in every case... in our fallen condition, it is often - if not usually - true that the more concentrated a church's dependency upon one giver or a small group of givers, the more that affects the dynamic in the church in which the giver knows their significance, and decisions are made (or not made) based upon what pleases (or displeases) the one(s) propping up the church financially.

Do a study of "the church boss" as well. Also, small churches are magnets for dysfunctional personalities who crave a social context in which they can have a voice.

 

[Edward]

there was a woman that identified herself as a deacon who had signed on

@NaphtaliPress

I looked up the woman that signed on and labeled herself as a 'deacon'. She's on the diaconate at Redeemer in Winston-Salem. Not going to give a name, as I'm not trying to Dox her, just doxxing the church. Most of the women identify as 'other leadership role, but this one wanted to make clear her role as a deacon.

 

[cthorn14]

(I thought deaconesses were bad, until I saw what is tolerated up in Potomic Presbytery.)

Looks like there is some variation between 2-office (deaconess/women's leadership council) and 3-office (shepherdess/deaconess/women's leadership council).

 

[Edward]

This observation underscores a very real and practical issue in small churches that happens so regularly that it is all but axiomatic: while not absolutely true in every case... in our fallen condition, it is often - if not usually - true that the more concentrated a church's dependency upon one giver or a small group of givers, the more that affects the dynamic in the church in which the giver knows their significance, and decisions are made (or not made) based upon what pleases (or displeases) the one(s) propping up the church financially.

I don't think that's limited to small churches. The guy who drops $1 million on the building fund is going to get a bigger say in what is built than I get with my pittance.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I don't think that's limited to small churches. The guy who drops $1 million on the building fund is going to get a bigger say in what is built than I get with my pittance.

Of course, but it is notoriously common in small churches. But anyway, your own post confirms what I’m saying about how small churches depend on just a handful of donors… That puts a lot of power in very few hands.

 

[py3ak]

Also, small churches are magnets for dysfunctional personalities who crave a social context in which they can have a voice.

There was no need to get personal!

 

[JohnBergsing]

Hey all. I've posted about this previously (https://puritanboard.com/threads/leading-family-through-a-potential-church-transition.117424/) but my family will soon be transitioning from a very large (~5000) high-commitment conservative non-denominational fellowship to a smedium (~80-100) PCA congregation in our area - which we are excited but also nervous about. We are accustomed to fairly deep involvement with the church, relationally and practically, have two small children, and look forward trying to hitting the ground running. I also understand many of the assumptions and ideas we have will be checked and challenged. I am trying to help make the transition as smooth and as possible for my wife and two small kids.

Because so many here have extensive experience leading and/or attending under this tradition: what advice, recommendation, or encouragement would you give someone coming from a background like ours to the PCA? As you can imagine, we dont have too many close friends/family who can offer their perspective...

If you need more clarity or context on our situation im more than happy to share! Thanks in advance.

I appreciate this OP and thread. I am in a similar situation so the suggestions have been very helpful. I have taken notes. I am returning to the PCA and the reformed faith with a wife and one teenage son who have very little exposure to this tradition. My son barely remembers our old PCA church now. We are transitioning to a 100-200 member church from a 5000+ member non-denominational mega-church.