Not tithing is unlawful

[OPC'n]

I hear people (not here on PB) denying that tithing is apart of the Law of God. Although I have always I differed with them, I never really had good "law" Scriptures to back up my convictions until now.

Romans 15:25-27 "25 At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem bringing aid to the saints. 26 For Macedonia and Achaia have been pleased to make some contribution for the poor among the saints at Jerusalem. 27 For they were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have come to share in their spiritual blessings, they ought also to be of service to them in material blessings.

Also, confirmed by 1Cor 9:3-14 and Gal 6:6.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

The churches owed a debt of gratitude (exhibited in material support) to churches that had given so that missionaries could go to them with the gospel.

Here's Paul encouraging the collection of the exact gift that he mentions also in the Romans letter:
2Co 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

So, I'm not sure how the Romans verse indicating obligation affirms a legally defined percentage of income donation (10%).

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

Tithing, being a 10% rule, is an OT principle that I do not see carried over into the NT. Legalists want to beat people over the head with the 10%. The NT instructs people to give as they purpose, as they are able, to set aside in advance, to give cheerfully, willingly, etc. I see no set percentage prescribed or implied.

Nor do I see the word Tithe in the 1646 WCF or the 1689 LBCF.

 

[Hamalas]

The way my minister put it was helpful to me. The question we have to ask ourselves is not so much, how much should we give? Rather, we should determine how much we dare to keep? As was mentioned earlier many hold up the ten percent rule as some kind of ideal. Yet even then, when we ask the above questions, we realize that we are keeping ninety percent for ourselves!

 

[PresbyDane]

 

[OPC'n]

Perhaps I was miss leading when I said "tithing". I'm not advocation only 10%. We find many examples in the NT where the believers were selling their land and giving the proceeds to the church. They were not required to do so, but did in order that they might help the church grow in one way or another. As far as Romans being law, I did refer to 1Cor 9:3-14 which states,

"3This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk? 8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel."

Paul states that it is a law, which frees me from being a legalist.

God does love a cheerful giver not one that is giving grudgingly, but He asks that we delight in His law. Before conversion, we hate His law. After conversion, we love His law and take delight in it. It is His law that we give and not grudgingly, which is defined as reluctant; unwilling. We shouldn't be unwilling to part with the wonderful gifts that we did not earn without God's help of earning them. These gifts can be in the form of money, our time, and the gifts that we receive from heaven (the fruits of the spirit). All of these are the "tithes" we owe to those who spiritually feed us especially. I know that I find my pastor to worth his weight in gold. Every time I hear him preach I am blessed beyond what my money and time are worth! It is a law to give, but it should be a law in which we delight. Just some thoughts to ponder.

 

[TimV]

The question we have to ask ourselves is not so much, how much should we give? Rather, we should determine how much we dare to keep? As was mentioned earlier many hold up the ten percent rule as some kind of ideal. Yet even then, when we ask the above questions, we realize that we are keeping ninety percent for ourselves!

That sort of preaching always seems to lead to people feeling guilty. To feel bad about keeping 90 percent of your net wages isn't something we should burden people with.

The law was a school master. God knew people need a guide, a rule.

I don't want to start another thread going off to a point of detail on OT law, but Christ said

Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.

I have a question for everyone. If you tithe one dollar every Sunday and you have a good job do you think all the promises in the Bible about being blessed for tithing are going to come down on you?

And the second question is: If you "tithe till it hurts" and have to skip going out to dinner or buying a book you want or a new sofa when yours is worn out, do you think that is acting more virtuously than the person who tithes 10 percent and can afford all those things?

I heard a sermon once where the guy said the ten percent tithe laws were "restrictive". The guy was the stingiest person I'd ever met, and I could see where he was coming from, but I think the tithe laws are helpful in giving people peace of mind. They are calming rather then burdensome.

 

[JBaldwin]

As I see, ALL that we have belongs to God. Jesus told us that our right hand was not to know what our left was doing when giving. If we view ourselves as servants of the King, then nothing we have belongs to us. We give freely (as God lays on our hearts) to His work and others, whether it be in the form of money, time or material possessions. God delights when we have "slippery fingers" concerning to our possessions.

The tithe is nothing more than a pitance. If give our little 10% and refuse to contribute anywhere else, because "we've already done our duty", then our hearts are not right. I watched a church crumble before my eyes financially, and I think this attitude toward giving was part of the problem. "I gave my portion, I don't have to do anything else." was the general attitude.

 

[Whitefield]

Tithing, being a 10% rule, is an OT principle that I do not see carried over into the NT.

Does this statement mean that anything which is clearly directed by God in the OT, is null and void if not explicitly directed by God in the NT?

Malachi 3:8-10 8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed Thee?' In tithes and offerings. 9 "You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

Where is this rescinded in the NT?

 

[Theognome]

An old Baptist preacher I knew once said it this way-

"Don't give 'til it hurts, give 'til it feels good."

Theognome

 

[AThornquist]

My family gives as we can. With my dad supporting a family and struggling financially, there are months where not so much can be given. The months where the financial struggle is less binding, more is given.

I honestly have no idea whether the "ten percent rule" is still binding, but for me it is a helpful standard regardless because it seems to be just the right amount to allow giving while not breaking the bank.

 

[Marrow Man]

There is a moral principle inherent in the tithe that actually precedes/pre-dates the Mosaic law (e.g., Abraham, Jacob). I do think that it could be argued that holding strictly to a 10% tithe (even though that is essentially the meaning of the word) could be taken to legalistic extremes. On the other hand, some of the excuses I have heard about tithing speak more to the moral issues underlying it: "I can't afford to tithe b/c I have to pay off my debt/credit card bills/etc."

Plenty of people (as Sjonee above points out) gave more than 10% in the NT era. And, as I sometimes like to point out to people, the widow at the Temple (the "mite-y" widow!) actually gave 100%!!!

A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent. Calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, "Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on." ~ Mark 12:42-44

 

[puritanpilgrim]

Where is this rescinded in the NT?

right. So you bring tithes and offerings within the context which Malachi was speaking. I seriously doubt that. First off, notice the word tithes is plural, singular. There were three main tithes. Two were given every year, one given every three. And then offerings in Malachi is not referring to, "anything over ten percent," which we Baptists live to preach. But, rather the whole list of offerings. It is a very poor rending of the text to teach, give 10% and then anything over that is an offering. That passage must be presented within its context.

 

[TaylorOtwell]

It seems to me that the giving found in the New Testament scriptures was to establish more equality amongst the believers, and to provide for specific needs (the poor Saints in Jerusalem).

"For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality." (2nd Corinthians 8:13-14)

I find this often very different from the giving of modern times, in which the people are exhorted to give for very vague causes, or even to causes that place unneeded burdens on the flock, such as building a "family life center", etc.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Things to consider in making application of the tithe:

1) A tithe was on the produce of ones fruit and olive trees, the increase of ones fields and flocks.

2) The tithe was on the increase from the land, showing God’s provision and ownership of the promised land.

3) There was not one tithe, but three; one going to the Levites and Priests; a second to be consumed at the feast of Tabernacles, and another every third year for the relief of the poor.

4) As the land was to remain fallow and trees unharvested every seventh year, there was no tithe from the land in the seventh year.

5) The tithe went to Levites. It was not for upkeep of buildings or programs. These came from offerings.

6) The Scriptures say nothing about a tithe on wages, income from trade or investments, nor about the produce of land outside the promised land.

7) If a tithe was on the “increase,” was that over and above what it cost to maintain ones farm and household during the year. For example, if one killed a lamb or steer to feed one’s household during the year, was that counted as an increase. Increase seems to refer more to increase in net worth.

Of course, there were also various sacrificial, free will, and first fruit offerings, the head tax, and offerings due to vows taken.

This is an example of where the “general equity” of the judicial law may apply. It is not so easy to apply this system to the New Covenant administration.

-----Added 1/12/2009 at 02:23:37 EST-----

NT Principles of Wealth & Giving

God owns everything; we are his stewards.

We’re responsible for the management of all God’s property- to work, save, preserve, get out of and stay out of debt, and wisely to use all for the advancement of the kingdom.

From this, we are to provide for ourselves, our families, tools for our labor, the future, our debts and give:

1) Of our increase, proportionally.

2) As our first priority determined beforehand, not as an afterthought of what is left.

3) Of our best, not what you don’t want.

4) Sacrificially.

5) Cheerfully.

6) Providing for the preaching and teaching of the word, the sending of preachers, and the relief of those suffering, believers first, then others.

7) Give though the elders and deacons of the church.

8) Fulfilling any promises or vows we take to do something extra for the kingdom.​

 

[Whitefield]

Where is this rescinded in the NT?

right. So you bring tithes and offerings within the context which Malachi was speaking. I seriously doubt that. First off, notice the word tithes is plural, singular. There were three main tithes. Two were given every year, one given every three. And then offerings in Malachi is not referring to, "anything over ten percent," which we Baptists live to preach. But, rather the whole list of offerings. It is a very poor rending of the text to teach, give 10% and then anything over that is an offering. That passage must be presented within its context.

Excuse me, I didn't use it to teach anything. I just posed a question which you didn't answer.

-----Added 1/12/2009 at 02:31:44 EST-----

Here is the question I often hear on "as they are able".
Pastor, is that the first fruit? is that after taxes? is that after the mortgage payment? is that after the mortgage payment, boat payment, and payment for the new cars? is that after all those and the family vacation to Disney World? ... you know pastor, I'm just not able to return much to the Lord.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

The first tithe belonged to the Levites and Priests. The second tithe was used for a religious family conference and feast. The third tithe, in two of seven years, was used for the relief of the poor.

The tithe can’t be mechanically applied to the church, outside of the promised land, when there are not Levites to receive it any more.

The general equity of these provisions still apply:

Christians are obligated to support the ministry of the word and extension of the church through evangelism and missions. The minister of the word is worthy of remuneration for his labor in study, preparation and preaching.

Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. [1 Timothy 5:17-18]​

Christians still have an obligation to minister to the poor, afflicted, and persecuted brothers.

There is nothing wrong with congregations having a building; but these should be paid for out of freewill offerings after the preaching of the word and public worship have been provided for.

John Wesley’s advice regarding money was good: “Get all you can, save all you can, invest all you can, give all you can.”

Note, lavish personal consumption was not on the list. After the basic needs of our families are taken care of, we should use all the rest which belongs to God for the advancement of his kingdom. Such advancement will include expenditures to make ourselves more productive, through investment and enterprise to provide others with the opportunity to earn a living, and to produce quality goods and services for the betterment of society. Kingdom work may be done in education, finance and business, as well as in church and charity. But, our provision for the preaching and teaching of the word, public worship, the Christian instruction of youth, and charity for the afflicted demonstrates the worth we place on God's priorities. Adequate provision here will enhance the kingdom in our other pursuits.

 

[Whitefield]

There is nothing wrong with congregations having a building; but these should be paid for out of freewill offerings after the preaching of the word and public worship have been provided for.

Where does this rubric come from?

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

There is nothing wrong with congregations having a building; but these should be paid for out of freewill offerings after the preaching of the word and public worship have been provided for.

Where does this rubric come from?

Show me where the tithe of the Old Testament was every used for a building project. Both Tabernacle and Temple were constructed from free will offerings.

The first tithe is in Numbers 18: 20-28, beginning with:

And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land, neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance among the children of Israel. And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation. [Num. 18:20-21]​

As the Levites received no inheritance in the division of the land, God gave them a tenth of the increase of land and flocks from the other 12 tribes of Israel. Of this, they gave a tenth to the sons of Aaron, the priests. This was before the various sacrifices and offerings and temple head tax.

The second tithe of Deut. 14 was to be expended for the feast of the Tabernacles in Jerusalem. It should be consumed there, or sold and the proceeds used to purchase what was consumed, in the place where God placed his name. The poor and the poor Levite were to be invited to share in this, as they had no second tithe of their own because they did not own land. This is not to be confused with the first tithe.

The third tithe was to be for the support of the poor and afflicted. This was taken every third year; probably in the third and sixth year, as the fields were not sown nor the trees harvested in the seventh year. So, it was probably applicable two out of seven years. In principle, it was three and one third of one’s increase.

Note in Mal. 3:10,

Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse...​

This speaks of "tithes," plural, not singular.

Although it is not a canonical book of the Bible, the book of Tobit, written between 300 and 175 BC, demonstrates the Jewish understanding of three tithes during the period between the Old and New Testaments:

The first tenth part of all increase I gave to the sons of Aaron, who ministered at Jerusalem; another tenth part I sold away, and went, and spent it every year at Jerusalem; and the third I gave unto them to whom it was meet. [Tobit 1:6-8; Lancelot Brenton's translation of the Septuagint version]​

Though Christians may disagree on whether the tithe is directly applicable to the New Testament church, I don’t think we have any disagreement in that first priority should be the adequate support the preaching of the word, near and far, through giving to the local church. The second should be the religious health of your family through a religious education and celebrations in gatherings with other believers. And, one should not neglect the poor and afflicted. Ten percent of one’s increase should be a minimal goal for believers to give; but should not stop there. God's regenerate people will be a generous people.

 

[Whitefield]

Ten percent of one’s increase should be a minimal goal for believers to give; but should not stop there.

Agreed. I don't know of anyone who takes the tithe seriously who thinks of it as a ceiling, rather it is the floor.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Ten percent of one’s increase should be a minimal goal for believers to give; but should not stop there.

Agreed. I don't know of anyone who takes the tithe seriously who thinks of it as a ceiling, rather it is the floor.

The general equity of the Old Testament tithe may serve as a guideline for giving ten percent. But, the tithe can not be applied as a continuing requirement in the New Testament era. We’re not in the promised land and we have no Levites or Aaronic priesthood. Few of us have significate agricultural income. We must interpret and apply the tithe after considering its Old Testament context.

Let me add two qualifications to what I’ve said about the second tithe:

1) The second tithe was on the increase of the soil, not of the flocks. Therefore, in total amount it was less than the first tithe.

2) This tithe was to be consumed at feasts in Jerusalem, but probably all three or any of the required feasts- unleavened bread, first fruits, tabernacles- and not just the latter as I said before.​

Back up some 400 years (Gen. 14:18-20) and witness a pre-Mosaic tithe, where Abram paid a tithe to Melchizedek, a type of Christ. Abraham’s practice in Gen. 14 is not a model for New Testament tithing. Abraham here paid a tithe on the spoils of war, not on his increase of land or flocks (Heb. 7:4). Under Mosaic law, there were different rules for offerings from the spoils of war (Num. 31:25-30) amounting to 2.2 percent being given to the priests and Levites.

In ancient middle eastern practice, a tithe of the spoils of war was often given to the king. Here, Abraham is giving a free will offering of the spoils to the king of Salem and priest of God Most High.

This further illustrates the non-applicability of the Old Testament tithe (except as a “general equity” principle) to different sources of income. Ten percent was required from increase of the soil and flocks in the promised land; two point two percent from the spoils of war; nothing except free will offerings on the produce of land and flocks outside the promised land or the gain from wages and trade.

Remember, I’m not suggesting Christians should not provide generously from what they hold in trust for God to support the ministry of the word and charity toward the afflicted and poor. However, this results from a heart which realizes Jesus is Lord of all, and not from legalistic and mechanical guilt manipulation of a non-applicable practice of the ceremonial law.

 

[Whitefield]

I'm left with a question as to the opinion of the Reformed to the tithe. Is it the stance of Reformed theology that the tithe is historically limited to the OT and that it is no longer applicable after the coming of Christ?

I'm not trying to goad anyone into a debate. I think we all can continue to learn from each other, but sometimes I get the impression that people react very defensively to questions.

 

[Glenn Ferrell]

Tithing, being a 10% rule, is an OT principle that I do not see carried over into the NT.

Does this statement mean that anything which is clearly directed by God in the OT, is null and void if not explicitly directed by God in the NT?

Malachi 3:8-10 8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me! But you say, 'How have we robbed Thee?' In tithes and offerings. 9 "You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you! 10 "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.

Where is this rescinded in the NT?

The circumstances attached to the Old Testament tithes are not present in our New Testament Church- i.e. agricultural increase from the promised land paid to Levites. Provide the exegetical basis for the continuation of the conditions attached to tithing. Show where tithing was required for income from trade or wages. Demonstrate where the requirement for tithing on the increase of soil and flocks was applicable outside of the promised land, or was due to ministers other than Levites. Tell us how we are to understand and apply the second and third tithe.

Even Orthodox Jews who legalistically try to understand and apply all 613 mitzvot (commandments) of the Torah do not find a requirement for tithing of income from trade or labor, or of produce of the land and flocks outside of the holy land.

The tithe might have included the produce on your vegetable and herb garden, even from you back yard in the city. However, the tithe was only applicable to increase of field, fruit and flocks in the promised land. It would not have been applicable to agricultural increase while in exile in Babylon; nor on gain from trade and wages.

There were other requirements for sacrifices and offerings. Every male first born must be redeemed by offering to the priests, each male adult paid a temple tax of half shekel of silver per year. Free will offerings and fulfilment of vows was appropriate. The equivalent of 2.2 percent of the spoils of war were required to be paid to the Levites and priests.

For those who believe the tithe is still required, do they also insist on redemption of first born sons (Numbers 3:47) by giving silver to a minister of the gospel? That is the first son to part a woman’s womb; so a man may have more than one first born.

Line up; you may send your money to my pay pal account. Five shekels were required. That is about US$19.41 at today’s silver price. Check for current rates before sending. Blessings will follow. Today’s preachers are missing another opportunity to generate revenue from the sheep.

BTW: Unlike tithing, Orthodox Jews believe this requirement of redeeming of the first born son to be one of the 613 mitzvot (commandments) of the Torah and still follow the practice:

Pidyan Haben: How to Redeem Your Firstborn Son

The “Christian” application of tithing came about in the Middle Ages as part of the oppressive, man invented, medieval, anti-Christian captivity of the church.

The Reformers nor Puritans found no requirement for tithing. Were they “antinomian”?

The general principles of the tithe remain. We have an obligation to support the ministry of the word and to relieve the afflicted with generous and cheerful provision from the substance with which God has entrusted us. An individual, church or community which does not do so is godless. One will know God’s people by their fruits. Those who want to keep the preacher poor, the church insolvent, and the afflicted destitute have not the Spirit of Christ in them.

But, one must be careful not to twist God’s word to say more than it does say; nor to accuse others of sin without demonstrating from the word where they have disobeyed God’s command.

Church officers have no warrant to require payment of a tithe on gross or net income, increase or gain from investments, trade, wages, providence, yield of field or flock, or gift. They do have pastoral reasons to question anyone who does not manage his work and wealth as a steward of God, provide for his family, make cheerful giving a priority, and provide for the ministry of the word, the Christian training of his family, and the relief of the afflicted in his own family, church and community according to his ability as God has enabled.

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

The way my minister put it was helpful to me. The question we have to ask ourselves is not so much, how much should we give? Rather, we should determine how much we dare to keep? As was mentioned earlier many hold up the ten percent rule as some kind of ideal. Yet even then, when we ask the above questions, we realize that we are keeping ninety percent for ourselves!

More likely we are keeping 50% for ourselves after paying 10% in tithe, 10% in student loan repayments and 30% in tax. Not that I am complaining about the tithe, but 10% is actually a rather high number when you think of it.

 

[OPC'n]

I don't think it needs to be a percentage, although, percentages can be a goal. I started with 10% and have found as the years go by it has increased. There are some who truly struggle and they give 2% which in God's eye's is more than my percentage. One should not give so much that they cannot take care of their family and thus the church is then required to turn around and give it back to them. Tithing is a love act towards God and His people. Remembering that tithing isn't always money may help that Christian who has very little money and has more time which can be given to the church he attends. Giving without reservation of the heavenly gifts is required of us all and since we draw from a fountain that never runs dry, giving these types of gifts does much within the body of Christ. I know that I certainly can increase greatly in all these areas!

 

[Davidius]

I don't see what that passage has to do with regular tithing.

 

[moral necessity]

It's good to hear many of these opinions in this thread. I wish I had encountered such counsel in my early years of family life. The guilt trip was laid on me from day 1 by my former church to give 10% no matter what, and to trust God to take care of the rest. It didn't matter if you were short on your house payment, car payment, or even your food bill. Being the only provider for my household, I went into serious debt over my "obedience", and still haven't found my way out. Ugh! I wish I were told to "give within my means", and to give in accordance with how the Lord provides for you. I finally, by the grace of God, figured it out, but now, I'm left so far behind. Nevertheless, I trust that God has and will work it all together for good, and for his glory, as he always does. Thanks, brothers, for the affirmation of my conscience in this direction.

 

[KMK]

Some of the above posts seem to come from this paradigm: It isn't Law therefore you shouldn't do it. I do not agree with this paradigm.

For those of you who used to give 10% out of guilt, I would caution against a reaction to the other extreme. I would agree that guilt is not the correct motivation for giving 10%, but that does not mean that 'you should not tithe'.

A few facts about the OT law of tithing.

1) It was wise and perfect.

Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple.

2) It was not a gift, but a debt paid. The tithe already belonged to the Lord.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

In other words,, 90% of what God blessed you with was for your use, the other 10% belonged to God. Therefore there was not confusion about, "How much should I give to the Lord this week? What is He 'laying on my heart'?"

3) It was used primarily for the Levites to make a living and Paul says that today's gospel ministers should be supported 'in the same manner'.

1 Cor 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

I realize that the words 'even so' do not necessarily mean 'in exactly the same manner', but at the very least we see that preachers should be making a decent living. How many of you would like your wages to depend upon 'what the Lord lays upon the hearts' of your employer?

If you believe that it is not a matter of precept, fine. But that does not mean that it is not a matter of propriety. There are many benefits to biblical tithing. (I am out of time right now) It was a perfect and wise way to support the church in the OT, is it not possible that it might also be a perfect and wise way to support the church in the NT?

 

[Hamalas]

The question we have to ask ourselves is not so much, how much should we give? Rather, we should determine how much we dare to keep? As was mentioned earlier many hold up the ten percent rule as some kind of ideal. Yet even then, when we ask the above questions, we realize that we are keeping ninety percent for ourselves!

That sort of preaching always seems to lead to people feeling guilty. To feel bad about keeping 90 percent of your net wages isn't something we should burden people with.

Sorry, but if you knew my Pastor you would know how funny that is! He has got to be one of the least abrasive or pushy guys I know. That statement was actually part of a summer series he did oN financial responsibility. There were countless times when he countered the exact things you mentioned. However I'm afraid that more often than not you're right. Too many have kept the letter of the Law and dishonored Christ with their hearts. We must constantly search our hearts when we look at this issue!

 

[puritanpilgrim]

Excuse me, I didn't use it to teach anything. I just posed a question which you didn't answer.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your question. I thought you were making an argument for a new testament tithe on the basis of OT law not being rescinded in the NT.