America Is a Theological Wasteland

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Marrow Man

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
What has become of Christianity in this country? It is very discouraging that tripe like this passes for meaningful spirituality (since, you know, we all have this voice in us, and that is "God").

***Video Removed by Moderator (me)***

There is a story and a point behind this complaint. I stumbled across this video while doing a Google search. I should have been searching for "interview with God." I eventually found this.

Last night, in the undergrad theology class in which I am a grad assistant, the students were supposed to give group presentations. They had to take a chapter from Tim Keller's The Reason for God and do a presentation on the objection to Christianity given in that chapter. The last presentation was by three women who did theirs on "How Can a Loving God Send People to Hell?" It was a very brave topic, and by far their presentation was the best of the groups. However, at the end, they said that they had talked about such bad news, they wanted to give the "good news." But, instead of the gospel, they played the video (the second one) I linked above.

There were, of course, problems with their presentation. They wanted to distinguish between thinking of God as a God of Wrath instead of a God of Hate, and that God's wrath is not contradictory to His love. Good enough, but then they stated that hate would be, and "God doesn't hate." After the presentation, I asked them to look up Psalm 5:4. They were drop-jawed, as if they had never heard such a thing before. At this point I can only pray that God uses His word to transform their faulty notions about God.

A faulty notions abound. The video above is but one indication. Complete tripe once again. No gospel given (but yet it is supposed to be "good news"). Only mindless sentimental manmade aphorisms (which are meant to pass for a substitute for revelation, I suppose). If this is any indication, America is a theological wasteland, and it is breaking my heart. :(
 
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Well, not a wasteland....after all we have Sproul! Oh, and my pastor who also ROCKS!!!
 
I'm not even sure what this had to do with their assignment.....but.....I will admit that I thought "uh oh, here comes another "Shack" book!" LOL!

Someone recently gave me a book called "Jesus Calling". The author said basically the same thing. She sat and wrote what *Jesus* said to her in her quiet time. The book is written as a daily devotional with *Jesus* speaking to you each day...she argues that although there is no scripture quoted, it is *based* on scripture.

Soooo.....now *we* can say it better than GOD said it in His Word? He didn't communicate *clear* enough so we have to do a better job? I get frustrated also with this notion that God can't draw people to Himself on his own, so we have to dress him up and put a bow on top.

This is all disturbing. Don't you think it comes from a people who would rather watch and read and listen to just about anything BUT the actual scriptures? sigh.
 
Yes, Polly, that was exactly my assessment as well. And I thought exactly the same thing you did -- this is like another Shack.
 
"All we need to do is..." upgrade our props -- the scene of the woman working at the computer (0:46) -- she's using a Mac PLus!

:duh:

-----Added 8/5/2009 at 12:02:30 EST-----

Marrow Man said:
Yes, Polly, that was exactly my assessment as well. And I thought exactly the same thing you did -- this is like another Shack.
Click to expand...

Yep -- since it's my personal experience, it cannot be questioned.
 
Dan, for us non-Mac people, please explain the Mac-plus comment.

Perhaps I should change the name of the thread to: America is a Microsoft Wasteland. :D
 
Still... things could be worse. There's probably more good theology coming out of the U.S. than any other nation today, at least in terms of books. We have much to be thankful for in the presence of men like Carson, Sproul, Piper, Keller, Mohler, Dever, Ferguson, and Horton; the work is there and readily available for those who are called to profit from it.
 
Marrow Man said:
Maybe more like my old Radio Shack/Tandy Color Computer (the old CoCo).

Or a Timex Sinclair 1000... (yes, I had one of those too).
Click to expand...

Ouch...

I started out with an Atari 800XL.

Atari_800XL_and_Peripherals.jpg


"Programs" came in a cartridge similar to the game console (but were not compatible). We once drove all the way to Rochester, NY (an hour's drive) to find a small office supply store that sold 5 1/2" floppies.
 
My mom ordered the TS 1000 for me as a birthday present. She also got the memory pack (the box-shaped device that plugs into the back) that boosted it up to a whopping 16 KB of memory! You had to use a tape recorder to store programs. But I did learn BASIC on the thing.

She ordered it over the phone from J and R Electronics. They're still in business. My camcorder is supposed to be arriving today, and I ordered it from them!
 
JoyFullMom said:
I'm not even sure what this had to do with their assignment.....but.....I will admit that I thought "uh oh, here comes another "Shack" book!" LOL!

Someone recently gave me a book called "Jesus Calling". The author said basically the same thing. She sat and wrote what *Jesus* said to her in her quiet time. The book is written as a daily devotional with *Jesus* speaking to you each day...she argues that although there is no scripture quoted, it is *based* on scripture.

Soooo.....now *we* can say it better than GOD said it in His Word? He didn't communicate *clear* enough so we have to do a better job? I get frustrated also with this notion that God can't draw people to Himself on his own, so we have to dress him up and put a bow on top.

This is all disturbing. Don't you think it comes from a people who would rather watch and read and listen to just about anything BUT the actual scriptures? sigh.
Click to expand...

I think it goes to the issue that many today don't want to have Truth mediated to them by the Word but trust their hearts and the immediate impulses that they count as a more sure foundation.
 
Marrow Man said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I think it goes to the issue that many today don't want to have Truth mediated to them by the Word but trust their hearts and the immediate impulses that they count as a more sure foundation.
Click to expand...

Well said.
Click to expand...

I think it goes to Romans 1. We will seek out anything but the True and Living God. Subjective is better than objective because if I don't like something I can actualize it with my own experience.

We need to just continue to preach the Gospel. Man is without excuse.
 
Marrow Man said:
My mom ordered the TS 1000 for me as a birthday present. She also got the memory pack (the box-shaped device that plugs into the back) that boosted it up to a whopping 16 KB of memory! You had to use a tape recorder to store programs. But I did learn BASIC on the thing.

She ordered it over the phone from J and R Electronics. They're still in business. My camcorder is supposed to be arriving today, and I ordered it from them!
Click to expand...

:)

In 1983 my Section NCO tried the convince me to buy a "computer."

I said, "Why do I need one of those?"

"You can write letters, store recipes...."

"Right -- I sure do need a computer..." :confused:

I finally took the plunge for the Atari in 1984 after I was out of the Air Force and a student at Houghton College.
 
Reformed Thomist said:
Still... things could be worse. There's probably more good theology coming out of the U.S. than any other nation today, at least in terms of books. We have much to be thankful for in the presence of men like Carson, Sproul, Piper, Keller, Mohler, Dever, Ferguson, and Horton; the work is there and readily available for those who are called to profit from it.
Click to expand...

But even the men you list above also have problems/issues with several of their doctrinal positions.

Look, when the 16th and 17th century reformers would not even bother to dawn the doorstep of the churches of the above men, you know we have serious, serious problems and are in dire straits.

Sometimes I have asked people, "do you know what the major doctrinal debate/issue was of the Southern Presbyterian church, causing significant strife and division, in the 1870s and 1880s?" No one knows. When I tell them "the use of musical instruments in the worship service," most are dumbfounded. They can't believe such a "minor, quibble point" could lead to such contention. And besides, haven't churches always used musical instruments in the past 1900 years?

My intent is to use the musical instrument issue as an example, not to hijack the thread. But my point is this: why are doctrinal issues in past ages not issues today? Are we so much more brilliant exegetically than they were?

No, for as C.S. Lewis once said, it is always easy to become victims of the "spirit of the age" and to exercise a good dose of what he called "chronological snobbery."

What we need is what God told Jeremiah in Jeremiah 6:16 - if you really want wisdom, return to the old paths, where wisdom really exists.
 
Gnosticism repackaged under the guise of truth. :2cents:

Ecclesiastes 1:8-10

8 All things are full of weariness;
a man cannot utter it;
the eye is not satisfied with seeing,
nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done,
and there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there a thing of which it is said,
“See, this is new”?
It has been already
in the ages before us.
 
R Harris said:
My intent is to use the musical instrument issue as an example, not to hijack the thread. But my point is this: why are doctrinal issues in past ages not issues today? Are we so much more brilliant exegetically than they were?
Click to expand...

No, but maybe we're not willing to go to the mat over issues that seem (to us) less than essential.
 
Curt said:
Marrow Man said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I think it goes to the issue that many today don't want to have Truth mediated to them by the Word but trust their hearts and the immediate impulses that they count as a more sure foundation.
Click to expand...

Well said.
Click to expand...

I think it goes to Romans 1. We will seek out anything but the True and Living God. Subjective is better than objective because if I don't like something I can actualize it with my own experience.

We need to just continue to preach the Gospel. Man is without excuse.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree. It's just that, today, many call that rebellion "being led by the Spirit". It is actually preferable to me when rank pagans act like pagans rather than those who name Christ call pagan thinking "...the Spirit is telling me...."
 
I am more optimistic.


Now, more than ever before, Christianity has become a global religion. And though the light seems to be departing the West, there is still much light going forth from our spot on the globe.
 
Pergamum said:
I am more optimistic.


Now, more than ever before, Christianity has become a global religion. And though the light seems to be departing the West, there is still much light going forth from our spot on the globe.
Click to expand...

When so much of that "light" seems to be really wacko charismatic... pardon me for not sharing your optimism.
 
SolaScriptura said:
Pergamum said:
I am more optimistic.


Now, more than ever before, Christianity has become a global religion. And though the light seems to be departing the West, there is still much light going forth from our spot on the globe.
Click to expand...

When so much of that "light" seems to be really wacko charismatic... pardon me for not sharing your optimism.
Click to expand...

Look at this. Perg, the Baptist, has postmillenial optimism!

Ben, the Presbyterian, is the pessimistic Amil! :lol:
 
Semper Fidelis said:
SolaScriptura said:
Pergamum said:
I am more optimistic.


Now, more than ever before, Christianity has become a global religion. And though the light seems to be departing the West, there is still much light going forth from our spot on the globe.
Click to expand...

When so much of that "light" seems to be really wacko charismatic... pardon me for not sharing your optimism.
Click to expand...

Look at this. Perg, the Baptist, has postmillenial optimism!

Ben, the Presbyterian, is the pessimistic Amil! :lol:
Click to expand...

I have plenty of long-term, big-picture optimism... I'm just not so optimistic about the present situation. :cool:
 
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