Ergun Caner Gets a New Gig

[Fly Caster]

ARLINGTON BAPTIST COLLEGE CALLS ERGUN CANER AS PROVOST AND VICE PRESIDENT OF ACADEMIC AFFAIRS



I'm not familiar with this place. I've heard of (President) D.L. Moody, but I didn't realize that he was still living.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks for the update. I had heard that LU wouldn't keep him for next year, but didn't know where he would land.

 

[Herald]

May the Reformed camp avoid such embarrassing and un-Christlike behavior.

sent from my most excellent Motorola Atrix.

 

[AThornquist]

Cool! It says that Caner will teach Apologetics there. I hear he has some stellar credentials.

 

[eqdj]

It's my understanding that ABC is an IFB institution.
I believe his brother teaches at Sotuhwestern in Fort Worth?

 

[Kevin]

His brother is the pres @ a baptist college in GA. Truett McConnell? possibly?

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

yup. here he is Official Site of Emir Caner

 

[Bill The Baptist]

They, like the run-ers of Liberty, Norm Geisler, and numerous foolish students, apparently don't care about integrity, honesty, and consistency. "If we ignore it, it didn't happen."

Norman Geisler is at Southern Evangelical Seminary. Not a big surprise about Caner though. I'm just don"t understand why they didn't just fire him outright, maybe they feared a lawsuit or something.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I know he's at Veritas, and not Liberty, but I'm including the folks onthe board at Liberty who were squeamish in their "investigation" and "hush hush" approach to the whole debacle. Shame on them. And Norm Geisler too.

I really believe that in their minds he did nothing wrong. They only let him go because of outside pressure. The core tenet of pragmatism is that the ends justify the means, so if by embellishing his testimony Ergun Caner "brings" more people to Christ, then that is perfectly acceptable.

 

[torstar]

That's a nice bio for Ergun in the presser.

A lot different from prior bios he allowed up on screens in his pursuit of the intellectual life.

 

[BenjaminBurton]

It's my understanding that ABC is an IFB institution.
I believe his brother teaches at Sotuhwestern in Fort Worth?

His brother is president at Truett McConnell. And had a wonderful tweet recently equating Acts 29 with the p0rnography found in bin Laden's hideout. Ridiculous

 

[Notthemama1984]

And had a wonderful tweet recently equating Acts 29 with the p0rnography found in bin Laden's hideout.

Oh how lovely.

 

[Fly Caster]

It's my understanding that ABC is an IFB institution.
I believe his brother teaches at Sotuhwestern in Fort Worth?

His brother is president at Truett McConnell. And had a wonderful tweet recently equating Acts 29 with the p0rnography found in bin Laden's hideout. Ridiculous

I was puzzled by "Acts 29" so I Googled it. Found out that it referred to something of which I am not a fan-- but also saw the tweet, which is pathetic.

Apparently integrity doesn't matter too much to the Caner clan.

 

[torstar]

May the Reformed camp avoid such embarrassing and un-Christlike behavior.

sent from my most excellent Motorola Atrix.

May it indeed, but we have enough hassles and scandals to deal with, but not of a nature like this one.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I'm not familiar with this place. I've heard of (President) D.L. Moody, but I didn't realize that he was still living.

D.L. Moody the famous evangelist died in 1899. I am assuming the D.L. Moody at Arlington is a descendant of some sort.

 

[DMcFadden]

Evidently the Arlington campus is the site of the former Top O' Hill Terrace casino. Prior to Ergun Caner, the place attracted the likes of Joe Louis, Humphrey Bogart, and Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow. Because of such historical notoriety, Texas declared it an historic site in 2004.

With his penchant for describing Calvinism in fair and balanced ways, I suspect that he will be just about as honest as "Bonnie and Clyde" in his approach to teaching theology.

Philippians 1:18 [sigh].

 

[Fly Caster]

I'm not familiar with this place. I've heard of (President) D.L. Moody, but I didn't realize that he was still living.

D.L. Moody the famous evangelist died in 1899.

I know. Some pretty tall tales pop-up around Caner, but I figure that even he can't pull off claiming to work with a famous 184 year old guy.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

With his penchant for describing Calvinism in fair and balanced ways, I suspect that he will be just about as honest as "Bonnie and Clyde" in his approach to teaching theology

You mean like this YouTube - ‪Has Ergun Caner even read Romans 9?‬‏

 

[Damon Rambo]

I know he's at Veritas, and not Liberty, but I'm including the folks onthe board at Liberty who were squeamish in their "investigation" and "hush hush" approach to the whole debacle. Shame on them. And Norm Geisler too.

I really believe that in their minds he did nothing wrong. They only let him go because of outside pressure. The core tenet of pragmatism is that the ends justify the means, so if by embellishing his testimony Ergun Caner "brings" more people to Christ, then that is perfectly acceptable.

Actually, a couple things to note:

#1 Ergun had a contract. The ethics clause that I am sure that it contained, almost certainly contained wording about discretionary investigations, in cases of alleged wrong doing. They could not just go "You are fired, you liar!" and kick him out.

#2 Liberty insiders are saying that nearly half of the board wanted to get rid of him immediately, when the news broke last year, but the larger percentage held their ground. However, Ergun's refusal to repent and issue a public apology forced their hand. Ergun was quietly told to find a new place of employment. (edit: I wanted to note that this is the info posted on several blogs, and being put out by certain people with Liberty, but is no way an "official" statement by Liberty. That is all.).

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

Actually, a couple things to note:

#1 Ergun had a contract. The ethics clause that I am sure that it contained, almost certainly contained wording about discretionary investigations, in cases of alleged wrong doing. They could not just go "You are fired, you liar!" and kick him out.

#2 Liberty insiders are saying that nearly half of the board wanted to get rid of him immediately, when the news broke last year, but the larger percentage held their ground. However, Ergun's refusal to repent and issue a public apology forced their hand. Ergun was quietly told to find a new place of employment. (edit: I wanted to note that this is the info posted on several blogs, and being put out by certain people with Liberty, but is no way an "official" statement by Liberty. That is all.).

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion

I agree that this is probably what happened. It just perplexes me as to why so many on the board at Liberty still supported him even after all the evidence. Honestly I would be the first to forgive Ergun Caner and let all this go if he would simply humble himself and repent, but he will not do it. I also don't think that Liberty is technically an SBC college. Thomas Road Baptist Church is an SBC church, but I am pretty sure the college is tecnically independent.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Yes, Liberty is independent. Cooperative dollars fund the big six, and Liberty is not one of them.

 

[Damon Rambo]

Actually, a couple things to note:

#1 Ergun had a contract. The ethics clause that I am sure that it contained, almost certainly contained wording about discretionary investigations, in cases of alleged wrong doing. They could not just go "You are fired, you liar!" and kick him out.

#2 Liberty insiders are saying that nearly half of the board wanted to get rid of him immediately, when the news broke last year, but the larger percentage held their ground. However, Ergun's refusal to repent and issue a public apology forced their hand. Ergun was quietly told to find a new place of employment. (edit: I wanted to note that this is the info posted on several blogs, and being put out by certain people with Liberty, but is no way an "official" statement by Liberty. That is all.).

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion

I agree that this is probably what happened. It just perplexes me as to why so many on the board at Liberty still supported him even after all the evidence. Honestly I would be the first to forgive Ergun Caner and let all this go if he would simply humble himself and repent, but he will not do it. I also don't think that Liberty is technically an SBC college. Thomas Road Baptist Church is an SBC church, but I am pretty sure the college is tecnically independent.

I agree, brother. But I am not going to pound someone over being too forgiving. I have better things to attack.

As far as Liberty; they receive cooperative money from the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia and are listed as an "SBC College" just like Criswell and Boyce...

Southern Baptist Convention - Colleges and Universities

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

Yes, Liberty is independent. Cooperative dollars fund the big six, and Liberty is not one of them.

Liberty is Southern Baptist, and receives cooperative dollars from the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I agree, brother. But I am not going to pound someone over being too forgiving. I have better things to attack.

As far as Liberty; they receive cooperative money from the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia and are listed as an "SBC College" just like Criswell and Boyce...

I agree, we most definitely have better things to attack. As for Liberty getting SBC money, in the words of Johnny Carson, "I did not know that..Mmmmm."

 

[Notthemama1984]

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion

This statement is saying that the Caner is out of the SBC and that SBC dollars will no longer fund him.

The Southern Baptist Convention lists the following colleges and universities as a service to Southern Baptists and the Baptist state conventions with which it maintains a cooperative relationship. With the exception of the five theological colleges associated with our SBC seminaries, the Southern Baptist Convention has no direct connection with any of these institutions. It provides no funding. It elects no trustees. Each institution is related to one of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The Cooperative Program is the unified budget plan adopted by the SBC. Each state convention receives Cooperative Program funds from churches in its state or region. The state convention retains a portion of Cooperative Program contributions from its affiliated churches for missions and ministries in its respective state or region. If a college or university receives funding from a Baptist state convention, this funding comes only from Cooperative Program funds forwarded to the state convention by churches in that respective state. No Cooperative Program funds forwarded by the states to the national convention (the SBC) are allocated to a college or university related to any of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The SBC provides no scholarship assistance to any student through the SBC Cooperative Program Allocation Budget. Scholarship awards are coordinated through each respective college or university’s finance office in accordance with guidelines adopted by the individual school.

The governance and funding procedures of the five colleges associated with the SBC seminaries are compatible with the Southern Baptist Convention’s bylaws and its Business and Financial Plan.

This statement seems to say that these colleges and universities are in fact independent of the SBC. The SBC has no oversight and gives no money to them.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Also notice here that the SBCV does not give any financial support to Liberty.

Liberty University, SBC of Virginia and Ergun Caner | SBC Voices

 

[Grimmson]

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion

This statement is saying that the Caner is out of the SBC and that SBC dollars will no longer fund him.

The Southern Baptist Convention lists the following colleges and universities as a service to Southern Baptists and the Baptist state conventions with which it maintains a cooperative relationship. With the exception of the five theological colleges associated with our SBC seminaries, the Southern Baptist Convention has no direct connection with any of these institutions. It provides no funding. It elects no trustees. Each institution is related to one of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The Cooperative Program is the unified budget plan adopted by the SBC. Each state convention receives Cooperative Program funds from churches in its state or region. The state convention retains a portion of Cooperative Program contributions from its affiliated churches for missions and ministries in its respective state or region. If a college or university receives funding from a Baptist state convention, this funding comes only from Cooperative Program funds forwarded to the state convention by churches in that respective state. No Cooperative Program funds forwarded by the states to the national convention (the SBC) are allocated to a college or university related to any of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The SBC provides no scholarship assistance to any student through the SBC Cooperative Program Allocation Budget. Scholarship awards are coordinated through each respective college or university’s finance office in accordance with guidelines adopted by the individual school.

The governance and funding procedures of the five colleges associated with the SBC seminaries are compatible with the Southern Baptist Convention’s bylaws and its Business and Financial Plan.

This statement seems to say that these colleges and universities are in fact independent of the SBC. The SBC has no oversight and gives no money to them.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Also notice here that the SBCV does not give any financial support to Liberty.

Liberty University, SBC of Virginia and Ergun Caner | SBC Voices

Liberty I think is technically independent, but it does receive board oversight by people from the SBC and does receive cooperative funds by the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia. The amount of SBC folks involved and money given challenges its independence in overall practice.

 

[Notthemama1984]

does receive cooperative funds by the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia.

The link I posted shows otherwise. The SBCV does have members on the board of Liberty though.

 

[Grimmson]

Liberty has been classified as a partner of the SBCV, see the following link:
Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia: Partners
Also check out the following quote from Associated Baptist Press - After investigation into claims, Liberty University demotes Ergun Caner :
“Liberty is not formally tied with the Southern Baptist Convention, but former SBC presidents Bailey Smith, Jerry Vines, James Merritt, Jack Graham and Johnny Hunt serve on its board of trustees. Other Southern Baptist trustees include Ronnie Floyd, who recently chaired a Great Commission Task Force that studied the denomination's effectiveness, and Doyle Chauncey, founding executive director of the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia, which supports Liberty University as a ministry partner. ”

 

[Notthemama1984]

Trustees of the school begun by Jerry Falwell issued a statement June 25 saying Ergun Caner made "factual statements that are self-contradictory" and that he would step down as dean of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary when his contract expires June 30. The statement said Caner was offered and accepted a contract allowing him to remain on the faculty as a professor for the next academic year.

Now that is really telling. He was not under contract for the next year, they offered him a new one.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

If it doesn't work out at Arlington, he can always get a gig playing Mr. Clean

 

[Damon Rambo]

#3 The new place that Ergun is moving, is not SBC. So Ergun is not only leaving Liberty (which is an SBC college), but also the Southern Baptist Convention. This means our cooperative dollars will no longer fund Mr. Fake. Which is a good thing, In my humble opinion

This statement is saying that the Caner is out of the SBC and that SBC dollars will no longer fund him.

My apologies. I should be precise. Our church gives to the SB of Texas convention. But we are also "SBC" because the SB of Texas, gives to the SBC. So I tend to lump them altogether. As far as the rest, see below.

The Southern Baptist Convention lists the following colleges and universities as a service to Southern Baptists and the Baptist state conventions with which it maintains a cooperative relationship. With the exception of the five theological colleges associated with our SBC seminaries, the Southern Baptist Convention has no direct connection with any of these institutions. It provides no funding. It elects no trustees. Each institution is related to one of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The Cooperative Program is the unified budget plan adopted by the SBC. Each state convention receives Cooperative Program funds from churches in its state or region. The state convention retains a portion of Cooperative Program contributions from its affiliated churches for missions and ministries in its respective state or region. If a college or university receives funding from a Baptist state convention, this funding comes only from Cooperative Program funds forwarded to the state convention by churches in that respective state. No Cooperative Program funds forwarded by the states to the national convention (the SBC) are allocated to a college or university related to any of our partnering Baptist state conventions.

The SBC provides no scholarship assistance to any student through the SBC Cooperative Program Allocation Budget. Scholarship awards are coordinated through each respective college or university’s finance office in accordance with guidelines adopted by the individual school.

The governance and funding procedures of the five colleges associated with the SBC seminaries are compatible with the Southern Baptist Convention’s bylaws and its Business and Financial Plan.

This statement seems to say that these colleges and universities are in fact independent of the SBC. The SBC has no oversight and gives no money to them.

---------- Post added at 10:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 AM ----------

Also notice here that the SBCV does not give any financial support to Liberty.

Liberty University, SBC of Virginia and Ergun Caner | SBC Voices

This was a rather disingenuous article. While SB Conservatives of Virginia might not literally hand over cash to Libertty, they provide scholarships specifically for Liberty students, that do indeed come out of the cooperative program in Virginia.

Financial Aid | Scholarships | Liberty University

So, yes, cooperative money does indeed go to Liberty, whether it is "officially" to a student or directly to Liberty.

Also, Liberty itself claims affiliation with the SBC. They also adhere to the 2000 BFM. No, there is no "oversight" in terms of having control over the Seminary, but then, there is no such oversight with Criswell, Boyce, or any host of other SBC colleges that voluntarily affiliate with the SBC. My point is that Ergun is leaving a self proclaimed SBC college. And yes, there are cooperative dollars which are no longer helping to pay for him.

 

[Notthemama1984]

He may want to lay off the waffles and start working out to get that gig.