I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
I like that! And RPCGA = Geneva. haha. Just kidding. Sorta.
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I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
What I mean is that you can visit a PCA church one Sunday and it might be conservative and confessional [...] The next Sunday you can visit another PCA church and it will have a band up front, with the minister telling jokes in the pulpit etc.
I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
That's a bit of a bad analogy since Constitution Party=irrelevant and OPC=relevant. The Paedocommunion/FV thing in the PCA will die down eventually given that the PCA's temperament is very much against that particular direction. It's one of the things that Rev Keister and Tim Keller would definitely agree on.
I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
Really? Everything I've ever seen for the Consitution Party made me think they where Independent and Fundamentalist Baptist types, but I could be wrong.
And before some in Wilkin's presbytery tried to deal with but he left.
And before some in Wilkin's presbytery tried to deal with but he left.
That's a bit charitable. The presbytery as a whole didn't properly act until the denomination pulled out a hammer. And then Wilkins decamped. And a lot of the impetus for action came from outside the presbytery, although there were some faithful men in the presbytery throughout the process.
I wouldn't describe PNW as being aggressive on the subject, either.
It seems that way don't it? Of course, if they were truly Independent politically they would not not favor a republic (political Presbyterianism!)
Most Americans make the mistake of calling the U.S. a "Democracy" rather than a Republic .
I like to use a political analogy (please don't stone me!); OPC=constitution party, PCA=republican party. In my humble opinion.
That's a bit of a bad analogy since Constitution Party=irrelevant and OPC=relevant. The Paedocommunion/FV thing in the PCA will die down eventually given that the PCA's temperament is very much against that particular direction. It's one of the things that Rev Keister and Tim Keller would definitely agree on.
Added to this was the "Joining and Receiving" of the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod (RPCES) by the PCA around 1982, a group that as a rule was more Northern based and by that time, more broadly evangelical than the early PCA leaders like Morton Smith. The RPCES was originated with a a group that split from the Bible Presbyterians in the early 60's, and some of them no doubt did not want to fight the battles of the 30's and 40's that occurred in the OPC all over again. At that time, Francis Schaeffer was probably the most well known RPCES leader. Covenant Seminary was a RPCES school. The founding of Greenville Seminary was largely a reaction against these broad evangelical or "New School" influences.
Some of the men in the Louisiana Presbytery at that time were, like Wilkins, former if not current theonomists who also embraced the FV to varying degrees. I think at least one or two of those pastors might have left as well, although I think Auburn Ave. was the only church to leave.
What I mean is that you can visit a PCA church one Sunday and it might be conservative and confessional [...] The next Sunday you can visit another PCA church and it will have a band up front, with the minister telling jokes in the pulpit etc.
Does not compute. Not mutually exclusive.
I don't know of many FVers and converts from reformed theology to RCism who haven't gone via theonomy---and because the PCA is leaning away from such ideas, I think it safe to say that FV is not a major threat to the peace of the denomination.
The dynamics of a smaller denomination like the OPC (around 30,000 members), and medium sized one like the PCA (around 350,000), with a broader demographic are different, necessarily.
James Jordan, Steve Wilkins, Doug Wilson, etc... repudiated Theonomy before the men themselves, or anyone else, even heard of FV.
Prior to that, the OPC had voted in 1975 to merge with the RPCES but the RPCES in a close vote declined. When the PCA approved the union with the RPCES, they narrowly rejected union with the OPC at the same time, If I recall correctly over concerns regarding the Norman Shepherd controversy and maybe other issues. In 1986 it was the OPC that voted against a merger with the PCA. To my knowledge that was the end of any kind of attempt to merge the two denominations.
I don't keep up with Presbyterian happenings closely anymore, but I think I saw something a while back where some in the PCA want to pull out of NAPARC.
The "Theonomy leads to FV" canard has proven to be false repeatedly on this site and many others.
The "Theonomy leads to FV" canard has proven to be false repeatedly on this site and many others.
I did not say that theonomy leads to FV, I said that most come to FV through theonomic thinking. I was unaware that Wilson et al had abandoned theonomy as such (I still hear theonomic libertarianism lite coming out of the Moscow crowd). I am by no means accusing all theonomists of being FV or of their position leading to such. In my opinion, FV is not a set of doctrines, but a personality, and one that I see in many of the theonomists that I know.
You must not have been paying very much attention. Jordan repudiated Theonomy back before there was an Internet.
You must not have been paying very much attention. Jordan repudiated Theonomy back before there was an Internet.
You are right. I became Reformed in 1995.
PCA member, current OPC member, and Lord willing future RPCNA member.
PCA member, current OPC member, and Lord willing future RPCNA member.
Just remember where where you're headed...
Many similarities except the difference between the first two and the third is-
wine (former temperance)
women (deaconess)
and song (exclusive psalms)
Both OPC and PCA are committed to God's Word and the blessed gospel of Grace. On the local level, go where you hear the gospel for your life the clearest. On the denom level, hard for a small church to be comfortable in a much bigger one. The RPCES gave its Covenant seminary to the PCA and its Francis Schaeffer outlook. For me the bigger story right now are the 140 congregations finally leaving the PCUSA and not feeling at home in either, but only in the EPC. How can we send a welcome to women without ordaining them? DCD
For me the bigger story right now are the 140 congregations finally leaving the PCUSA and not feeling at home in either, but only in the EPC. How can we send a welcome to women without ordaining them?
You don't ordain them, if any PCUSA women pastors churches join the EPC than they should leave the women's ordination behind and become laywomen