a question on thoughts..

[QueenEsther]

(I couldn't figure out where to put this one, I hope this is ok)

I've heard stories of families being with out milk or food or whatever and praying about it only to have someone come to their door with the very thing they had prayed for, later saying that when they were grocery shopping they got this thought, like some thing seemed to be telling them to buy the item to give to that particular person. (I hope that makes sense)

Have any of you had that happen to you, on either end? Would you say God was "talking" to you in that instance?

 

[satz]

I've heard a few stories like that as well. I am now inclined to believe that there is no biblical reason to believe God would work in such a way, though that may just be over-reaction to charismatic abuses on my part.

 

[Blueridge Believer]

(I couldn't figure out where to put this one, I hope this is ok)

I've heard stories of families being with out milk or food or whatever and praying about it only to have someone come to their door with the very thing they had prayed for, later saying that when they were grocery shopping they got this thought, like some thing seemed to be telling them to buy the item to give to that particular person. (I hope that makes sense)

Have any of you had that happen to you, on either end? Would you say God was "talking" to you in that instance?

I was involved with a childrens home in Tennesse where this kind of thing happened all the time. We are not charismatic. I know of a missionary's wife, after being told that she could bare no more children pleaded and prayed for over a year to the point her husband was worried about her sanity. One night while at the grocery store she bought a box of pampers telling her husband that God was going to let her have another child. Her husband really thought she was gone then. A year later they had a little girl.
God can provide a table in the wilderness.

 

[LadyFlynt]

I've been on both ends.

 

[a mere housewife]

Rose if we accept that we are in personal relationship with a Personal God and not some sort of union with an abstract, it makes perfect sense that God would communicate with us, not bindingly for the whole church as in His revelation (and whatever we 'sense' He is communicating to us must be subject to that 'last word') but that He would move in our hearts and desires the very things He desires for us.

One time I was unwell and was going to stay home from a function my husband was invited to attend in Ohio. I woke up that morning though, with the strangest sense of being pulled out of bed and compelled to go. I got to talk to a Roman Catholic man there who was struggling with some ideas of Roman Catholicism, especially penance. He really accepted what I was able to say to him about God's forgiveness in Christ and how we cannot improve on such. I was certain then and am now that God had me go to speak to that man: other people were busy with other things and couldn't have done so. There have been numerous such instances, like feeling compelled to pray for people every day for seemingly no reason, and finding out later that the woman was diagnosed with cancer etc. I don't think that is 'charismatic'. I have been on the receiving end much more, and it has been a huge encouragement that God does give us all daily our daily bread, and our daily help from Him. Nothing that has happened has been in any way contradictory to or unsubmitted to God's revelation of Himself in Scripture: it was all very much in keeping with His revelation of Himself and of His will.

 

[Timothy William]

Like most Christians, I suspect, I have heard of many such stories. I don't doubt that some of them are true. What I do doubt is that each of the true stories are there to teach us something in particular. One can always read into such stories what one wants to believe. To use a typical example, if a missionary family receives, just in time, sufficient funds to enable them to continue, does it meant hat God approves of all the doctrine that they are teaching? Or only that God approves of their work in general, while He is opposed to some particulars? Perhaps He is using it to demonstrate is provision for them as normal Christian people, without Him expressing one way or another His approval of their work? Even if they are labouring in some far off place, an unexpected gift of enough money to provide medical care for a sick family member, for example, might indicate divine providence and care for that family member, not encouragement to continue in said far off place. We must be thankful to God for all things; if he provides milk to stop a baby from dying, we praise him for his care of a baby. But we should not read more into it than that.

Economists have an argument about the fallacy of things seen versus things unseen, which goes something like this "people always pay greater attention to those things which are clearly seen than to those things which are obscure. If a government takes a certain amount of tax revenue and spends it on building a bridge, or a sports stadium, or whatever, people will tend to concentrate on the bridge or stadium and ignore what would have been built by people with their own money had the government not taken it from them." The same applies with God, because we use the same psychology with divine providence. We are always tempted to focus on the things seen - the cheque which arrives just in time, the miraculous circumstances which allow us to escape expected calamity- and ignore the things unseen - the fact that without God's constant care and provision we would be in a helpless, hopeless state. We are always tempted to read too much into the improbable or unlikely and not enough into the fact that, without God's continual upholding of us and of the physical world, our world, and, worse, our faith, would collapse overnight. If anything these peculiar providences are a concession to our weak faith - were our faith perfect and unshakable, they would be unnecessary.

 

[BJClark]

QueenEsther,

I've heard stories of families being with out milk or food or whatever and praying about it only to have someone come to their door with the very thing they had prayed for, later saying that when they were grocery shopping they got this thought, like some thing seemed to be telling them to buy the item to give to that particular person. (I hope that makes sense)

Have any of you had that happen to you, on either end? Would you say God was "talking" to you in that instance?

Actually, yes, I have also been on both sides of this, where I had a need and prayed, and God put it upon a friends heart to meet the need without my ever telling her of the need.

God also places on my heart to buy certain things, I usually take them to the church and drop them off at our Mercy Ministry office, which helps many families in need, and thus far every time, they have had like 1 or 2 families scheduled to come on those days for assistance.

Another incident, my husband had worked at a pet store and one of the distributors had given him a huge bag of dogfood to bring home for our dog, well, our dog didn't like it, so my husband told me.."Take it to the church", I looked at him like he was crazy, and said, why not just take it to the animal shelter? Because they always need dogfood, He said "NO, take it to the church" I said "okay" and I did.

Unbeknownst to us, there was a woman who had just called, and was coming in that afternoon for assistance--when she called she asked if by chance they knew where they could get petfood, because their daughter had a dog, and they hated to get rid of the dog just because they couldn't afford dogfood right then because the father lost his job. They don't typically keep petfood on hand and didn't know of anyone who helps in that way, so when I showed up out of the blue with this huge bag of dogfood asking if they could use it, they were all like "WOW, does God care about the little things in our life or what??"

So yes. God does do things like that...Because He provides for His Own.

 

[a mere housewife]

We are always tempted to focus on the things seen - the cheque which arrives just in time, the miraculous circumstances which allow us to escape expected calamity- and ignore the things unseen - the fact that without God's constant care and provision we would be in a helpless, hopeless state. We are always tempted to read too much into the improbable or unlikely and not enough into the fact that, without God's continual upholding of us and of the physical world, our world, and, worse, our faith, would collapse overnight.

Very true. And I do think that often these incidents serve to strengthen our view of that. However I think some of them arise precisely because this is true and God is keeping faith with those who know it is true. So while I agree that in some cases the quote following is accurate, I don't think that for instance I can judge George Muller to have had somehow weaker faith than all of us here, because he relied on God daily for daily provisions, and wrote the book on these kind of experiences. In many cases these peculiar providences are not a concession to weak faith but the keeping faith of God with the faith of His children.

If anything these peculiar providences are a concession to our weak faith - were our faith perfect and unshakable, they would be unnecessary.

 

[QueenEsther]

Thank you all for your answers, this is very interesting. I love hearing these stories of how God's providence has worked out.

 

[Timothy William]

Very true. And I do think that often these incidents serve to strengthen our view of that. However I think some of them arise precisely because this is true and God is keeping faith with those who know it is true. So while I agree that in some cases the quote following is accurate, I don't think that for instance I can judge George Muller to have had somehow weaker faith than all of us here, because he relied on God daily for daily provisions, and wrote the book on these kind of experiences. In many cases these peculiar providences are not a concession to weak faith but the keeping faith of God with the faith of His children.

Perhaps I need to clarify. It is not a sign of weaker faith to rely on God daily. It takes much stronger faith to humbly ask God to care for you than to just assume that you will be provided for. It is the visible nature of the provision which God uses to build and strengthen our faith. But were our faith perfect (and of course no one's is) this would be unnecessary.

 

[Pergamum]

I am of a skeptical nature and was atheistic for a time when I was younger. The Lord saved me at 18.

I still never experienced anything like this until I started preparing to come to Indonesia and had to exit the military and rely upon others.

Then, very distinctly 5-6 separate events occurred within a 2 year time period. I was so perplexed that I wrote a few of these events down because I did not know what to think of them.

If you u2u me I can relate them, but I do not want to broadcast them here because people get too caught up in stories and, yes, these stories are subject to charismatic abuses (if you don't have a Bible verse to support you, then relate a weird story about how the Lord helped you). Even many missionaries try to prove the Lord's blessing by means of these stories. And yes, I do think that they happen more to those in hard straits or trying to reach out cross-culturally, but I am still skeptical.

It did not fit my theology. I am not charismatic and am a cessationist.

But, these sort of events are part of God's providence.


If God orders all events, shouldn't we figure that He would give us a peak of that marvelous order ever so often?

 

[a mere housewife]

Mr William, I know that in every case where God has provided for us in that way it has been in a time of low faith for me, and a strengthening of my faith to see Him do so -- so I think I understand what you are saying in my own experience certainly. The people here live relying on God daily in a way it would terrify me to do, and God always provides for them and they are confident of His provision -- their experience would be very different from mine I think. I suppose that I'm getting confused at the part about the visible nature of the provision -- because as long as we need to eat and be clothed, won't the provision be physical and visible no matter how 'strong' our faith? I did read of a very great Christian man who starved to death without feeling hunger (shipwrecked on an island); but I don't want to make a rule that if we all had his faith we could live without food..... I don't think that's what you are saying either: in fact I'm sure of it, I am just not understanding very well. Could you clarify a little more?

Thanks.

 

[Timothy William]

First, William is my middle name.

I don't think I explained "visible" very well. I meant it as opposed to God's normal provision for us. I don't think that if our faith were perfect we could endure hunger without pain - even Jesus experienced pain from hunger. By visible I mean clear and obvious, where God makes a point of demonstrating that he provides for us, say, by having something show up unexpectedly just when we need it.

To take an example of money for food showing up, seemingly miraculously, when one is facing hunger, I am not saying that if our faith was perfect we would not need the food. It is more a case of the whole process - not having enough food, so we have to look to God, then having it arrive just in time, so we thank God for it - demonstrating what we knew to begin with, but tend to forget, that God controls all things and all we have comes from His provision.

I think I was talking in absolutes in my earlier post when I shouldn't have; I'll stop now before I confuse myself.

 

[a mere housewife]

Mr. -Hopper (I know a man named Tim Williams -- a really stupendous man actually: he was studying for the Jesuit priesthood when he was converted and wound up confronting the pope personally -- very calmly -- denouncing him as antichrist, all of which was caught on TV. He came home to find his bags on the porch, his strong RC catholic family having disowned him. He's now a reformed minister in Chicago and one of the most learned men I have ever met: anyway the association was automatic, and I neglected to look at your signature). Thank you for the clarification. I thought perhaps you meant visible as in 'unusual' after I had thought about it a bit more....

PS to Rose -- the very day Mr. Williams' family kicked him out, leaving him homeless and without money to rent-- his college professor asked him to housesit for her, moving in at once, while she and her husband went to Europe. This thread actually has been a good reminder to me of the things Mr. Hopper mentioned above: that God is always caring for us, that everything we currently enjoy is just as much His provision, and that He is able to supply for all our needs absolutely as seamlessly, which has been very encouraging to me.