Addressing a concern in someones preaching

[zsmcd]

I have posted recently about how my family is looking for a reformed church in our area to become members of and to have our daughter baptized into the church. So far we have visited two PCA churches and we have one PCA and one ARP church left on our list to visit.

At one of the PCA churches we visited, one of the elders preached and quoted the previous pope in the sermon, referring to him as "our previous pope." I was honestly so shocked to hear the pope quoted that I questioned whether or not he actually said it. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, so I waited until the audio was posted online during the week to listen again and see if he really said it. Indeed, he did. As a visitor, do I have the responsibility to say something to someone about this? What if I was a member of the church? If so, how do you go about doing that in such way that is humble?

Thanks.

 

[py3ak]

If that is going to weigh against you returning there, it's probably to the church's benefit to know how that sort of thing can come across. Certainly as one looking for a church home, it's quite reasonable to ask, "What did you mean by calling him 'our pope'?" I wouldn't think there's any need to be more confrontational than that at the moment.

For the record, I liked the previous pope: he was very learned, vivid, entertaining, and looked the part. It also seemed like he was clear on us being enemies.

 

[Jack K]

The phrase "our pope" doesn't necessarily mean the speaker is saying the pope has authority over him or over the church. It could be just a way of speaking that means "our world's pope." For instance, I might speak of Vladimir Putin as "our current Russian president" even though I'm not Russian and owe him no allegiance, no do I wish to.

And the previous pope was reasonably quotable. So this sounds like a situation where, if you're troubled by the reference, you might ask about it but should do so in a non-accusing way. You might get an answer that gives you more insight into that church. The phrase itself is not enough to tell you much.

 

[Jack K]

Oh, and I think it's good you've resisted being that guy who visits a church once and then feels compelled to report on what was wrong.

 

[jwithnell]

Come on out to Leesburg

 

[Edward]

I was honestly so shocked to hear the pope quoted

I don't know, some PCA pastors might benefit from hearing this quote.

An Adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelties.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

At one of the PCA churches we visited, one of the elders preached and quoted the previous pope in the sermon, referring to him as "our previous pope." I was honestly so shocked to hear the pope quoted that I questioned whether or not he actually said it. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, so I waited until the audio was posted online during the week to listen again and see if he really said it. Indeed, he did. As a visitor, do I have the responsibility to say something to someone about this? What if I was a member of the church? If so, how do you go about doing that in such way that is humble?

I would be interested in knowing the context of the quote. I quote all manner of men in my sermons for sundry reasons. It doesn't mean I agree with them on any other area or even with the quote itself. Context is what matters.

 

[zsmcd]

The quote wasn't bad. Perhaps I am being too critical? I just never thought I would hear a reformed pastor quote the pope when he is preaching the Word. Especially considering the fact that the WCF referred to him as the antichrist. I can understand quoting someone like Chuck Norris or Abe Lincoln, but a false teacher? Just didn't sit right with me. Should pastor's quote men like Joel Osteen or Rob Bell in their sermons? Men who claim to be teachers of the Word but preach a false gospel. I suppose I just felt that there had to have been a better quote from someone else who isn't a false teacher.

Oh, and I think it's good you've resisted being that guy who visits a church once and then feels compelled to report on what was wrong.

Yeah, I didn't/don't want to be that guy. That is why I asked.

 

[zsmcd]

Come on out to Leesburg

My dad used to live in Leesburg. If he still did we would probably make the hour drive out there to worship with you all! There are just too many other churches closer to home to necessitate driving an hour.

 

[reaganmarsh]

I was honestly so shocked to hear the pope quoted

I don't know, some PCA pastors might benefit from hearing this quote.

An Adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelties.

Plenty of SBC pastors could stand hearing that quote, too!

But I agree: I'd rather forego the quote, or find someone besides the Pope or another false teacher.

It would be wise to ask what the minister meant in phrasing it like that.

 

[Bill The Baptist]

I was honestly so shocked to hear the pope quoted

I don't know, some PCA pastors might benefit from hearing this quote.

An Adult faith does not follow the waves of fashion and the latest novelties.

Plenty of SBC pastors could stand hearing that quote, too!

But I agree: I'd rather forego the quote, or find someone besides the Pope or another false teacher.

It would be wise to ask what the minister meant in phrasing it like that.

I can understand why one might want to use a quote like the one above, but the trouble lies in precisely what the previous pope meant. I'm sure in his mind, the reformation itself would be included amongst the waves of fashion and latest novelty. In my estimation, it is better to forego quoting heretics even if it seems beneficial in context, lest the intended meaning of the heretic be seen more clearly than whatever way you might be attempting to reframe it.

 

[reaganmarsh]

Bill,

Amen.

 

[johnny]

I have never heard any pope ever referred to pleasantly in any reformed service that I have attended, so I think you have some justification to be wary. If I heard that comment and I was seeking a new church, then I would be penciling that church off my list. I do agree that it's hard being discerning when you have no prior history with a Minister and the advice I have given may not be the correct course of action.

 

[Pilgrim]

For the record, I liked the previous pope: he was very learned, vivid, entertaining, and looked the part. It also seemed like he was clear on us being enemies.

I'm sure it says something about a person (and I include myself here) if he thinks that the previous pope was more entertaining and likeable than the current one. (And he did look the part, although that's something I abhor. But to me the white looks less ridiculous than what some of the Cardinals wear.) I have a few of his books. If nothing else, he has been a perceptive cultural critic.

With regard to him being clear about us being enemies, yes and no, I suppose, as is the case with post-Vatican II Catholicism. There was the somewhat controversial encyclical that reasserted that the RCC is the one true church. But I don't think that he ever said anything that indicated that he disagreed with the idea that we are "separated brethren." Now if you're referring to things like having a mutual admiration society with the likes of Kenneth Copeland, sure. No self-respecting Mozart aficionado would do that, would he? Given his origins, I guess that's what the current pope thinks Protestantism or evangelicalism is. And to a certain degree when it comes to what impacts the masses, especially in the Global South, he's pretty much correct.

 

[MW]

so I waited until the audio was posted online during the week to listen again

With access to the audio it might be best to provide larger context to the words so that people can make an informed judgment for themselves what needs to be addressed. Only when it is known what needs to be addressed can it be determined how to address it.