Luketramel21
Puritan Board Freshman
Hey everyone, been looking into different denominations and have been focusing on the Anglican Church. What are some reasons why I should or shouldn't become an Anglican?
Anglicanism
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arapahoepark
Puritan Board Doctor
Ploutos
Puritan Board Graduate
The Reformed Episcopal Church is very small, but as of 25 years ago it was, I think, a good denomination. I know nothing of it now.
If you move to Sydney, Australia, the Anglican diocese there is fairly conservative. Plus, you can go to Aldi's and buy kangaroo sausage, kangaroo meatballs, and ground kangaroo meat. One should not underestimate what a significant perk that is.
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
They do have unordained women deconesses. They don't ordain women.
It's probably the best bet of the various Anglican groups in the US. You might find this helpful https://northamanglican.com/the-reformed-episcopal-church-and-her-detractors/
It's probably the best bet of the various Anglican groups in the US. You might find this helpful https://northamanglican.com/the-reformed-episcopal-church-and-her-detractors/
LadyCalvinist
Puritan Board Junior
There are a few small conservative and to varying degrees, reformed churches
The Anglican Orthodox Church
United Episcopal
There may be others.
The Anglican Orthodox Church
United Episcopal
There may be others.
ShamgarTheJudge
Puritan Board Freshman
I was part of an ACNA parish before continuing to reform. I loved it, but it was quite the mixed bag of Calvinists, Charismatics, and Anglo-Catholics. There was a huge diversity of opinions on women being ordained and I know the diocese I was part of did indeed have a female “priest” and deacons.
I would agree with the others here and say the REC may be the better denomination of the conservative arms of Anglicanism.
Yet, I would not become a part of another congregation considering my Presbyterian convictions.
I would agree with the others here and say the REC may be the better denomination of the conservative arms of Anglicanism.
Yet, I would not become a part of another congregation considering my Presbyterian convictions.
To a certain extent, anglicanism of any variety after 1662 is built to facilitate regression toward Rome and to hinder conformity with reformed churches. While it's possible with care to maintain reformed distinctives alongside anglican confessions, it seems like a self-defeating practice to remain in a church that is built to fill itself with those who object to reformed doctrines and thereby to weed you out of it.
The best fruits of anglicanism were the Westminster standards and presbyterianism.
The best fruits of anglicanism were the Westminster standards and presbyterianism.
Frisian Gardener
Puritan Board Freshman
I visited an REC last year while traveling. The service was Scripture-filled and Gospel-filled (I recall the sermon was on Thomas' confession "My Lord and my God"), but many times I couldn't but help be reminded that the differences in their practices and a confessional Presbyterian church's practices were at one time considered worthy of shooting each other over. Like I wrote in the recent Doug Wilson thread, another example of good friends and good neighbors, but not good roommates.
Kangaroo meat is fine if you’re stranded in the outback and that is all you can get your hands on; perhaps the same applies to churches. But if you want to eat real meat you eat beef, so if you come to Australia you might want to find a confessionally reformed church.
FivePointSpurgeonist
Puritan Board Freshman
I just had to pop in here and see why on earth “Kangaroo sausages” is being discussed in a thread on Anglicanism
CasualWestminsterEnjoyer
Puritan Board Senior
I have an Anglican friend on facebook that posts photos of Anglican "high pontifical masses." These people are Papist in every meaningful way except communion with the Pope.
That's not an exaggeration. Whole bishoprics of Anglicans have quite literally gone over to Rome and continued to use the Book of Common Prayer (with some slight modifications).
pianoviolin
Puritan Board Freshman
I know high-church stuff isn't RPW. But I would highly suggest at the very least checking out confessional Lutheranism (like LCMS or AALC, check out Dr. Jordan B. Cooper). While I disagree with many of their views on certain issues, they are doctrinally much tighter than the Anglicans where anything can go, from liberalism to Anglo-Catholicism.
You also may not be as "high-church" as you think - traditional Reformed liturgies (like the ones in Geneva and Strausburg) are reverent and tradition, but also considered low-church. Traditional Reformed sacramentology of baptismal efficacy (neither a bare sign nor baptismal regeneration) and spiritual eating of Christ's true body and blood in the Eucharist is also something you may want to look into.
There are indeed parts of the ACNA (Anglican Church in North America) and the Reformed Episcopal Church (REC) that are more Reformed-leaning. Some are very low-church evangelical Anglicans (similar to Sydney Anglicans) that are basically Presbyterian with bishops. Others are middle-church Reformed-leaning (and Lutheran-influenced). You may want to check out the YouTuber Young Anglican (he is a Reformed-leaning Anglican in the ACNA) or the more staunchly conservative The Other Paul (a middle-church evangelical Sydney Anglican). And if you become Anglican, it is traditionally understood that Joseph of Arimathea visited Britain - some even say Christ himself ("Did those feet in ancient time..."), although I have my doubts.
I am grateful for faithful Anglicans like John Davenant, John Newton, JC Ryle, J.I. Packer and many more, even C.S. Lewis. Although I strongly disagree with certain aspects of liturgy and polity (as well as the looseness in the modern Anglican church), I wholeheartedly think the BCP 1662 is excellent for private devotion. You could do much worse than Reformed Anglican or confessional Lutheran.
May God guide you in this decision. We Presbyterian and Reformed welcome you with open arms, but wherever you go, remember to always treasure Christ, author and perfector of our faith!
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Pictet
Puritan Board Freshman
Luketramel21
Puritan Board Freshman
I guess what im really looking for is a church that holds to the calvinistic views, scripture being the ultimate authority, and biblically sound traditions while also giving a true emersion in worship and the service it self.
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Thank you kind sir! I have heavily considering Presbyterianism as well..I grew up reformed Baptist, and it just feels like im missing something, or im not getting the true local church experience the way it was traditionally done..and I dont know if that is prideful of me to say, because ultimately it is about worshipping God from a true heart with faith, regardless of the decor or garb.
pianoviolin
Puritan Board Freshman
To be honest, it might be hard to find a traditional-style conservative Reformed/Presbyterian church that has assurance of pardon/confession, a proper low-church liturgy, hymns and psalms, and both internal and external reverence. One that has a proper sacramentology as well. (For some historic Presbyterian & Reformed churches, see The Presbytery Inn).
While you might not get everything you want in a church, start with the basics: solid Gospel-focused and Biblically-based preaching, a Reformed / Presbyterian church (that does not withhold the sacrament of baptism to covenant children), and has a welcoming community. Get involved in that church community and grow in your relationship with the Lord. As you become more involved, if you have particular concerns about the liturgy or traditions, you may be able to respectfully bring them up with the elders. [Besides Presbyterian and Dutch Reformed - I'm obviously biased, and this is the Puritan Board - consider strongly Reformed-leaning Anglican church (ACNA) or perhaps a confessional Lutheran church (LCMS or AALC), although Lutheranism is not Calvinistic and has a substantially different sacramentology than us].
I hope you can find a solid church home. God bless!
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They did have reformed options - presbyterian, congregationalist, and baptist options. Anglicanism after the Restoration became the heap under which Charles II attempted to bury those reformed options, and after the Act of Toleration in 1689, the best reason to stick with the Church of England was disagreement with at least some reformed teachings. Anglicanism has been an alternative to the reformed churches not just since the nineteenth century but since the seventeenth.
Yes the founding documents of Anglicanism were meant to separate the English church from Rome and to bind her together with the orthodox protestant churches, but the reason they returned to those documents after the introduction of the Westminster standards was as a rejection of those standards and a deliberate retreat back toward the earlier era when protestant and reformed distinctives were less well defined and popish ideas were not altogether abandoned. In spite of those past lights of Anglicanism you mention, the logical end of the Anglican retreat from the fuller reformation is exactly what we see with Anglo-catholic Anglicans re-entering communion with Rome.
CasualWestminsterEnjoyer
Puritan Board Senior
@Pictet I agree with you as far as the Anglicans of the past you mentioned are concerned.
However, in the Church of England today, such persons are greatly outnumbered. I acknowledge they exist, but they are few and far between.
And one of the reasons appears to be that the ceremoniale, liturgy, vestments, and rote prayers of the church of England are a strong delusion that natural draws carnal Christians that love human traditions, and disgusts and repels those who love the gospel in its simplicity and power.
However, in the Church of England today, such persons are greatly outnumbered. I acknowledge they exist, but they are few and far between.
And one of the reasons appears to be that the ceremoniale, liturgy, vestments, and rote prayers of the church of England are a strong delusion that natural draws carnal Christians that love human traditions, and disgusts and repels those who love the gospel in its simplicity and power.
That is correct.
1. The Anglican Orthodox Church was founded in 1963 by the staunchly conservative Reverend James Parker Dees of North Carolina, who renounced the liberalism of the Protestant Episcopal Church, especially for its failure to discipline Bishop James Pike. James Parker Dees was a fundamentalist, who despite hie great respect for Professor Robert Knight Rudolph, disdained the neo-evangelical tendencies of the Reformed Episcopal Church. The Anglican Orthodox Church adheres to the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion and uses either the 1928 or the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.
The Anglican Orthodox Church is very small jurisdiction in North America. Her presiding bishop is the Rt. Rev Jerry Ogles.
The Anglican Orthodox Church [AOC] should not be confused with the Orthodox Anglican Church [OAC] which schismatic body that broke from the Anglican Orthodox Church after the death of the Rt. Rev. James Parker Dees in 1990.
2. The United Episcopal Church of North America was founded in 1978 when Rev. Charles Dale David Doren was consecrated Bishop along with James Mote, Robert Morse, and Francis Watterson. The original goal was that these four bishops would lead a new continuing Anglican Church out of the apostate Protestant Episcopal Church. [The Episcopal Church became formally apostate with the adoption of a new heterodox Book of Common Prayer, and by ordaining women deacons and presbyters] By 1981 Bishop Francis Watterson had become apostate and led his followers into the Church of Rome. Bishop Motes led an Anglo-Catholic jurisdiction called the Anglican Catholic Church. Bishop Robert Morse led another Anglo-Catholic jurisdiction called the Anglican Province of Christ the King. Bishop Charles D. D. Doren led a mixed low Church, old high Church jurisdiction called the United Episcopal Church of North America
The United Episcopal Church of North America [UECNA] was intended to be a home for Anglicans of the Low to old High Church ceremonial tradition and to continue the doctrine, discipline, and worship of the old Protestant Episcopal Church with as little alteration as possible. Clergy in the UECNA subscribe to the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion, and use the 1928 or 1662 Book of Common Prayer liturgically. The Rt. Rev. Peter Robinson is the Archbishop of the United Episcopal Church of North America
Some Dioceses in the Anglican Church of North America claim to be Evangelical and Reformed; but really are not. The Rt. Rev. Ray R. Sutton is an Anglo-Catholic. Under his leadership the The Reformed Episcopal Church has morphed into another Anglo-Catholic jurisdiction.
The Rt. Rev. Julian Dobbs, the Bishop of the ACNA Diocese of the Living Word is a Christian Zionist.
Andrew35
Puritan Board Junior
Confessional Lutherans generally bar our kind from the Lord's Table though, right? That would be a "No" for me. Whereas Anglicans are open. Probably too open.
ShamgarTheJudge
Puritan Board Freshman
The degree to which the table is fenced varies from one Anglican jurisdiction to another: and from one parish to another
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About 25 years ago the Reformed Episcopal Church began to morph into a an Anglo-Catholic jurisdiction.
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ShamgarTheJudge
Puritan Board Freshman
True. I can only vouch for two parishes in that they at least held to professed belief in Christ and baptism as the standard of entry.
In England a small jurisdiction the Church of England Continuing is Reformed, evangelical, and Anglican. https://cofec.org/
There are some good reformed clerics in the Free Church of England despite the hierarchy of that jurisdiction.
Church Society is a renewal organization in the Church of England that is kind of generally reformed https://www.churchsociety.org/
There are some good reformed clerics in the Free Church of England despite the hierarchy of that jurisdiction.
Church Society is a renewal organization in the Church of England that is kind of generally reformed https://www.churchsociety.org/
LanceJ
Puritan Board Freshman
Because JP is in need of further sanctification.I just had to pop in here and see why on earth “Kangaroo sausages” is being discussed in a thread on Anglicanism
J.L. Allen
Puritan Board Junior
Not to derail...
Wasn't Calvin Robinson in the REC for a hot minute, but then some controversy cropped up? I don't know much about Calvin Robinson or why he is or isn't controversial.
Wasn't Calvin Robinson in the REC for a hot minute, but then some controversy cropped up? I don't know much about Calvin Robinson or why he is or isn't controversial.
Ploutos
Puritan Board Graduate
Hey now! We can get really good beef here in the States. Not so much with kangaroo meat. I jumped at the chance to try something new, and eating it for the first time was a highly memorable experience. My wife and I did a good job preparing and seasoning it; it had a really nice kick to it and I found that it put a real spring in my step afterwards. In fact, we enjoyed it so much that we hopped right back over to Aldi's to get some more. I liked how gamey and lean it was, and if I ever make it back to Australia, you can bet I am going to high-tail it to the nearest grocery store to get some.
Oh right, Anglican something something yada yada yada.
LanceJ
Puritan Board Freshman
ALDI's sold it!?
Ploutos
Puritan Board Graduate
I think so. It's been a hot minute since we were there, so I could be remembering that incorrectly. We went to a couple different grocery stores while we were there, since we were staying in an Airbnb and wanted to do most of our own cooking instead of dining out every day. But as I'm thinking about it more carefully, I'm realizing that I'm not totally sure which grocery store had kangaroo meat.
To further confuse things allow me to report on the Evangelical & Reformed Synod, an Anglican German Reformed hybrid.
The Evangelical & Reformed Synod was organized in 2023 by a group of concerned and committed pastors who had fled to the United Episcopal Church of North America for Ecclesiastical refuge. These pastors wanted to create a home for classical Protestant Christians in the United States who have been left behind or abandoned by their historical denominations, when the old Evangelical & Reformed Denomination merged with the Congregationalists to form the United Church of Christ.
The men behind the Evangelical and Reformed Synod sought to found a mildly liturgical Denomination, that was orthodox, classically evangelical, and Reformed.They use either Anglican liturgical form or the similar reforms that were used by the old German Reformed Congregations found in the Reformed Church United States prior to its merger with the Evangelical Synod of North America in 1934.
Since then, the Synod has grown to include some 20 congregations, nearly 30 ministers, and over 1000 laity in 5 countries. The Synod desires to provide a safe harbor for Christians who adhere to historical church order, traditional church governance, the classical protestant confessions, and above all the Word of God. Some of this Church growth has been achieved by reaching out to and including existing Reformed Classis in Tanzania, Kenya, and elsewhere in Africa
The doctrinal standard of the Evangelical and Reformed Synod are the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion and the Heidelberg Catechism. other Confessional statements received for study are the Augsburg Confession, Luther's Small and Large Catechisms, and the Marburg Articles.
The E&R Synod is therefore both in polity and style of Churchmanship a hybrid between German Reformed and Anglicanism. They have clarified their relationship with the United Episcopal Church of North America (UECNA) by saying. While the E&R Synod derives our episcopal succession from the UECNA, maintains an informal communion agreement between our presiding bishops, and continues cordial relations with the UECNA; the E&R Synod is not subject to the jurisdiction of the UECNA or its bishops. The E&R Synod is an independent jurisdiction with its own Constitution, Confessions, and Leadership.
The President and presiding Bishop of the E&R Synod is the Rt. Rev. Aaron Erastus Long.
Attached is a link to an article by an Anglican that assesses the Liturgical forms of the German Reformed Church:
northamanglican.com
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Allow me to provide a link to this hybrid form of Anglicanism the Evangelical & Reformed Synod.
www.eandrs.org
The Evangelical & Reformed Synod was organized in 2023 by a group of concerned and committed pastors who had fled to the United Episcopal Church of North America for Ecclesiastical refuge. These pastors wanted to create a home for classical Protestant Christians in the United States who have been left behind or abandoned by their historical denominations, when the old Evangelical & Reformed Denomination merged with the Congregationalists to form the United Church of Christ.
The men behind the Evangelical and Reformed Synod sought to found a mildly liturgical Denomination, that was orthodox, classically evangelical, and Reformed.They use either Anglican liturgical form or the similar reforms that were used by the old German Reformed Congregations found in the Reformed Church United States prior to its merger with the Evangelical Synod of North America in 1934.
Since then, the Synod has grown to include some 20 congregations, nearly 30 ministers, and over 1000 laity in 5 countries. The Synod desires to provide a safe harbor for Christians who adhere to historical church order, traditional church governance, the classical protestant confessions, and above all the Word of God. Some of this Church growth has been achieved by reaching out to and including existing Reformed Classis in Tanzania, Kenya, and elsewhere in Africa
The doctrinal standard of the Evangelical and Reformed Synod are the Thirty Nine Articles of Religion and the Heidelberg Catechism. other Confessional statements received for study are the Augsburg Confession, Luther's Small and Large Catechisms, and the Marburg Articles.
The E&R Synod is therefore both in polity and style of Churchmanship a hybrid between German Reformed and Anglicanism. They have clarified their relationship with the United Episcopal Church of North America (UECNA) by saying. While the E&R Synod derives our episcopal succession from the UECNA, maintains an informal communion agreement between our presiding bishops, and continues cordial relations with the UECNA; the E&R Synod is not subject to the jurisdiction of the UECNA or its bishops. The E&R Synod is an independent jurisdiction with its own Constitution, Confessions, and Leadership.
The President and presiding Bishop of the E&R Synod is the Rt. Rev. Aaron Erastus Long.
Attached is a link to an article by an Anglican that assesses the Liturgical forms of the German Reformed Church:
OUR GERMAN COUSINS: LITURGY IN THE EVANGELICAL AND REFORMED CHURCH | The North American Anglican
Anglicans tend to worry about liturgy in the same way that cage-stage Calvinists worry about the Ordo Salutis – obsessively. This can blind them to the fact that the Eucharistic Rite of the Book of Common Prayer is not a unique creation, but the product of the widespread endeavor to reform the...
northamanglican.com
Allow me to provide a link to this hybrid form of Anglicanism the Evangelical & Reformed Synod.
Home | Evangelical And Refo
www.eandrs.org
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