Augustine on Assurance

[P.F.]

If I may be permitted to come to Anthony's defence, he is not disagreeing with Scripture or the Confession. The Scriptures quoted only refer to the objective truth not the subjective realisation of the truth. ... It is this persuasion which gives rise to the "oidamen" (we know) statements of Scripture, but there is not always a subjective realisation of what is known.

There's a world of difference between "not always a subjective realization" and "I don't think assurance on the part of the believer is ever truely obtained" - the former is reasonable, the latter is not.

 

[AC.]

Mr. Flanagan....

do you have assurance? have you ever doubted your salvation? Has anyone here ever have?

At this point in my life, from my subjective perspective, I don't know if assurance is ever truely obtained??? Maybe we should use another word than assurance (I don't believe confessions are infalliable or maybe I'm not reading it right).

But if assurance can waiver than how is it assurance???

I'm not questioning perseverance of the saints...I'm questioning the experience of the believer to live this life with assurance. Again, I don't see why we have to use words TRUE or FULL. Either we have ASSURANCE or NOT. IF IT WAIVERS IT'S NOT ASSURANCE...IS IT???

Are confessions 100% infalliable??? Are they 100% divinely inspired as scriptures???

 

[P.F.]

AC:

a) This is not about me.

b) I quoted from the Scriptures, not the Confessions. The Scriptures are 100% inspired.

c) I'm simply correcting your erroneous assertion that believers cannot truly obtain assurance in this life.

d) I realize that this is an emotional topic for you, but I exhort you to more carefully consider what my criticism is not. My criticism is not a suggestion that those who waiver are unsaved - or anything like that. My criticism is a criticism of the idea that believers cannot have assurance. Scripture says they can, and we ought to believe the Scriptures.

 

[AC.]

yeah, but also wasn't Paul worried about being a cast away and mentioned fighting the good fight....touching on the subjective experience of the believer even though from God's side he was secure. I know Paul testifies of being secure in Christ in Romans 7. But does assurance account for doubts, fears and despondencies....if it does I don't see how one can ever have assurance on the subjective level...from an objective perspective yes. The scriptures often speaks of how things ought to go....not how they do go...no? If not a lot of Calvinist doctrine would be faulty.

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

So what useage of assurance are we looking at here pretaining to Assurance of salvation (it obviously can't be freedom from doubt)

as·sur·ance (-shrns)
n.
1. The act of assuring.
2. A statement or indication that inspires confidence; a guarantee or pledge: gave her assurance that the plan would succeed.
3. Freedom from doubt; certainty: set sail in the assurance of favorable winds. See Synonyms at certainty.
4. Self-confidence. See Synonyms at confidence.
5. Excessive self-confidence; presumption.
6. Chiefly British Insurance, especially life insurance.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
assurance [əˈʃʊərəns]
n
1. a statement, assertion, etc., intended to inspire confidence or give encouragement she was helped by his assurance that she would cope
2. a promise or pledge of support he gave an assurance of help when needed
3. freedom from doubt; certainty his assurance about his own superiority infuriated her
4. forwardness; impudence
5. (Business / Insurance) Chiefly Brit insurance providing for certainties such as death as contrasted with fire or theft

 

[jayce475]

yeah, but also wasn't Paul worried about being a cast away and mentioned fighting the good fight....touching on the subjective experience of the believer even though from God's side he was secure. I know Paul testifies of being secure in Christ in Romans 7. But does assurance account for doubts, fears and despondencies....if it does I don't see how one can ever have assurance of the subjective level...from an objective perspective yes. The scriptures often speaks of how things ought to go....not how they do go...no? If not a lot of Calvinist doctrine would be faulty.

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

So what useage of assurance are we looking at here pretaining to Assurance of salvation (it obviously can't be freedom from doubt)

as�sur�ance (-shrns)
n.
1. The act of assuring.
2. A statement or indication that inspires confidence; a guarantee or pledge: gave her assurance that the plan would succeed.
3. Freedom from doubt; certainty: set sail in the assurance of favorable winds. See Synonyms at certainty.
4. Self-confidence. See Synonyms at confidence.
5. Excessive self-confidence; presumption.
6. Chiefly British Insurance, especially life insurance.

The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright �2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
assurance [əˈʃʊərəns]
n
1. a statement, assertion, etc., intended to inspire confidence or give encouragement she was helped by his assurance that she would cope
2. a promise or pledge of support he gave an assurance of help when needed
3. freedom from doubt; certainty his assurance about his own superiority infuriated her
4. forwardness; impudence
5. (Business / Insurance) Chiefly Brit insurance providing for certainties such as death as contrasted with fire or theft

If I'm not mistaken, Calvin ignored the subjective aspects of assurance by stating that assurance is of the essence of faith, but pretty much all of us here are in agreement that there is a subjective aspect to assurance. Assurance simply means knowing for sure at this moment in time, regardless of whether we call it self-confidence or freedom from doubt. Infallible assurance means that it can't waver or change. It would be useful for us to stick to the language of the WCF and disregard the terms "true" or "full" for now. The WCF is clear on whether there are some who do manage to attain infallible assurance. Not all of us are able to attain it because of our own darkened minds which need continual renewing, but according to the WCF, there are some who do. Practically speaking, this infallible assurance (a state of neverchanging confidence in one's salvation where doubt never enters) does appear very difficult to attain, though I do know of ministers who may fit into this category. Many of us fail to attain this, not because it is impossible for us to do so, but because of the sinfulness in us causing such doubts in us and our failure to fully work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[AC.]

Q.21: What is true faith?
A. True faith is not only a certain knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in his word, but also an assured confidence, which the Holy Ghost works by the gospel in my heart; that not only to others, but to me also, remission of sin, everlasting righteousness, and salvation, are freely given by God, merely of grace, and for the sake of Christ's merits.

looking at this statement over, it seems to be saying that w/out an assured confidence we do not have TRUE faith.....if taken on it's own I'd say many of us lack true faith and are hence outside the kingdom of God, no? How many can at all times say they have an ASSURED CONFIDENCE, I think if we took a poll the % would be low....no? Maybe not amongst the easy-believism circles???

 

[jayce475]

Q.21: What is true faith?
A. True faith is not only a certain knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in his word, but also an assured confidence, which the Holy Ghost works by the gospel in my heart; that not only to others, but to me also, remission of sin, everlasting righteousness, and salvation, are freely given by God, merely of grace, and for the sake of Christ's merits.

looking at this statement over, it seems to be saying that w/out an assured confidence we do not have TRUE faith.....if taken on it's own I'd say many of us lack true faith and are hence outside the kingdom of God, no? How many can at all times say they have an ASSURED CONFIDENCE, I think if we took a poll the % would be low....no? Maybe not amongst the easy-believism circles???

What the Heidelberg Catechism may be trying to convey may be that which the WCF is saying, but not quite as clearly, or it may indeed mean what you are saying. It is not clear in the HC whether this assured confidences must be ever abiding and ever present. Where the confessions differ, the WCF is the standard.

 

[AC.]

if 'assurance' (and possibly true faith if it includes an assured confidence) CAN waiver as part of the Christian experience despite how Q. 21 seems to read.....I will retract my original post!!!

 

[jayce475]

if 'assurance' (and possibly true faith if it includes an assured confidence) CAN waiver as part of the Christian experience despite how Q. 21 seems to read.....I will retract my original post!!!

True faith in itself would not waver because it is fully objective, but our knowledge of whether we do possess true faith does. But yes, assurance can waver (stated rather clearly in the WCF I might add) and I think HC Q21 can possibly be read in a way which is consistent with the WCF. Well, your original post has given the opportunity for many to gain a better understanding of assurance, so it's not a bad thing. Just matter of being mindful of when we're "advocating" for something that contradicts the confessions and when we are seeking clarification.

 

[AC.]

Jason,

I appreciate your particpations/feedback. Good stuff.

AC

 

[mmeeuwse]

I have read this thread with interest and would like to share some thoughts from my perspective. I mentioned to our session that I did not have assurance of salvation. Referring to the WCF chap. 18 I told them my faith was founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation and that I did have inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, but that the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are children of God, was lacking in my soul. I was told that I was waiting for an extraordinary revelation, to which I replied that I did not know what I was waiting for but that I would know when it happened. I was told to read all of 1 John and especially 1 John 5:13. I noticed that this verse was referred to very early in this thread also and all the emphasis was put on “that you may know that you have eternal life.” The first few words, “these things I have written” were not even mentioned. What are these things? John writes precious promises followed by terrible warnings. 5:6b- And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. 2:15- if anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Who of us does not love our wife and children? Who does not love our possessions, entertainment, money etc.? Yes we really do need the Spirit’s witness. If our Heavenly Father chooses not to provide that witness what is the believer supposed to do? I am afraid that many decide to take a gift that was not given, rather we should go forward in faith and hope and prayerfully wait on Him for His perfect timing.

 

[AC.]

I've read Kersten's commentaries on Q. 21. He says that true faith is confidently assured and does not waiver, but the issue becomes the exercise of faith....for the believer faith is not always in exercise.....doubts & assaults may plague us



Beeke on Calvin on the matter: MAKING SENSE OF CALVIN’S PARADOXES ON ASSURANCE OF FAITH: Part One

 

[py3ak]

William Guthrie, in the opening of The Christian's Great Interest, says this:

I. – A man's interest in Christ may be known

First, That a man’s interest in Christ, or his gracious state, may be known, and that with more certainty than people conjecture; yea, and the knowledge of it may be more easily attained unto than many imagine; for not only has the Lord commanded men to know their interest in Him, as a thing attainable – ‘Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith’ (2 Cor. 13:5); ‘Give diligence to make your calling and election sure’ (2 Peter 1:10) – but many of the saints have attained unto the clear persuasion of their interest in Christ, and in God as their own God. How often do they call Him their God and their portion? and how persuaded is Paul ‘that nothing can separate him from the love of God?’ (Rom. 8:38, 39.) Therefore the knowledge of a man’s gracious state is attainable. And this knowledge of it, which may be attained, is no fancy and mere conceit, but it is most sure: ‘Doubtless Thou art our Father,’ saith the prophet (Isa. 43:16), in the name of the Church. It is clear from this:--1. That can be no fancy, but a very sure knowledge, which does yield to a rational man comfort in most real straits; but so does this--'When the people spoke of stoning David, he encouraged himself in the Lord his God.' (1 Sam. 30: 6.) He saith, 'He will not be afraid though ten thousands rise up against him.' (Psa. 3: 6.) Compare these words with the following: 'But Thou, O Lord, art a shield for me; my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.' (Psa. 3: 3.) 'The Lord is my light, and my salvation, whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life, of whom shall I be afraid? Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear; though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident.' (Psa. 27: 3.) 2. That is a sure knowledge of a thing which maketh a wise merchant sell all he has, that he may keep it sure; that maketh a man forego children, lands, life, and suffer the spoiling of all joyfully; but so does this--Matt. 13: 44; Mark 10: 28, 29; Heb. 10: 34; Rom. 5: 3; Acts 5: 41. 3. That must be a sure and certain knowledge, and no fancy, upon which a man voluntarily and freely does adventure his soul when he is stepping into eternity, with this word in his mouth, 'This is all my desire' (2 Sam. 23: 5); but such a knowledge is this. And again, not only may a godly man come to the sure knowledge of his gracious state, but it is more easily attainable than many apprehend: for supposing, what shall be afterwards proved, that a man may know the gracious work of God's Spirit in himself; if he will but argue rationally from thence, he shall be forced to conclude his interest in Christ, unless he deny clear Scripture truths. I shall only make use of one here, because we are to speak more directly to this afterwards. A godly man may argue thus, Whosoever receive Christ are justly reputed the children of God--'But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God' (John 1 12); but I have received Christ in all the ways which the word there can import: for I am pleased with the device of salvation by Christ, I agree to the terms, I welcome the offer of Christ in all His offices, as a King to rule over me, a Priest to offer sacrifice and intercede for me, a Prophet to teach me; I lay out my heart for Him and towards Him, resting on Him as I am able. What else can be meant by the word "receiving"? Therefore may I say, and conclude plainly and warrantably, I am justly to reckon myself God's child, according to the aforesaid scripture, which cannot fail.

Full text available here.

 

[White Knight]

Any book recomendations for WCF Chapter 18 Of Assurance of Grace and of Salvation that deal with assurance specifically?

 

[Steve Curtis]

It is decidedly Arminian to think that our assurance is fickle, here today and gone tomorrow: Arminius wrote "With regard to the certainty [or assurance] of salvation, my opinion is, that it is possible for him who believes in Jesus Christ to be certain and persuaded, and, if his heart condemn him not, he is now in reality assured, that he is a Son of God, and stands in the grace of Jesus Christ." (Works 1:5:VI) In other words, as Arminian Carl Bangs writes, the believer can have a "present assurance of a present situation." (Arminius: A Study in the Dutch Reformation)

Contrast this with Beza:

"You will know this through the Spirit of Adoption crying within you, ―Abba! Father!‖ and also because through the power of the Spirit you both feel and show it. Even though sin may still dwell in you, it will not reign in you. If you do sin, you will hate your sin and return to the merciful Father and call on him. These are the effects of faith and indicate that you are efficaciously called and drawn by God." [I can't find the reference but I know that this quote appears in Jill Raitt, The Colloquy of Montbeliard: Religion and Politics in the Sixteenth Century]

The point is that the issue of assurance is not a Calvin/Augustine dichotomy (or at least not wholly); rather, it was of the very essence of the Synod of Dordt. The Remonstrants denied the assurance that the Confessionalists affirmed.