Best Jazz Singer

[ThomasCartwright]

Nope. Jazz is most definitely not ' predicated on the presupposition that there are no absolutes'. It is grounded upon the same absolutes as every other type of music, at least Western music. It is ludicrous to think that it has no basis in music theory. Frankly it takes a musician who is very skilled in the 'absolutes' in order to play real jazz. Even those who are not classically trained have an incredible grasp on music theory. Almost every type of music in the world contains improvisation, even Baroque, Classical, and Romantic.

One question: Are you a musician?

I am someone who has taken courses on hymnology and contemporary music at Seminary, although I would not call myself a musician. However, I don't have to be a drug addict to understand the roots and evils of taking drugs. All of us have the Biblical right (and duty) to study the roots, philosophy and fruits of a music genre and determine if it is acceptable to offer in worship to God. This is especially so when the music genre is from the post-Enlightenment culture and has not historically been part of Reformed worship.

I am sure we all agree that music is not neutral and that satan has his own form of evil music to compete with true worship of God. In your comments you simply denied my premises without offering any evidence to the contrary. No one denies that skilled musicians play Jazz - satan is a very skilled musician and philosopher so that argument is not conclusive. The point I made was that the devil perverts the order of God hence the rise of divorce, homosexuality etc and any genre of music that takes what is absolute and presents it as existential and subjective I am entitled to question the purpose.

Now, if we turn to look at the origins of Jazz that should be suggestive of the presuppositions behind it.

Back in 1966 Bob Dylan told an interviewer, ‘if people knew what this stuff was about, we'd probably all get arrested.’ The words "rock and roll in the original patios drawn from the lingo of the blues and jazz players of the early fifties were synonymous with the act of (fornication). . . . (Lust) is the main ingredient in rock music and the artists and producers who crank it out make no bones about this." (National Review, Feb, 1989)

In a PBS documentary (“Jazz”, January 10, 2001), music critic Gary Giddins described the instrumental music as “hot, exotic, and sexy”. He continued his comments by saying that “the music itself becomes erotic. And so the band becomes a kind of participant with the dancers. They’re just as erotic. They’re just as seamy . .. .”

Music must reflect a harmonious union between its emotional and textual message.(1 Cor 14:15;John 4:23-24; 1 John 4:1). According to one writer,

African music had a strong influence on the development of jazz music in America. "The syncopation as a primary ingredient of jazz developed as a rhythmic accommodation of the Africans. Syncopation was the nearest and best substitute for the complicated polyrhythms that were an integral part of their musical heritage." It is this syncopation that causes jazz music to "swing." Jazz, the precursor of modern rock and roll, has a very interesting place in history. The name Jazz comes from the now defunct word jass which means the sexual act. Jazz music was originally developed for use in brothels, where each brothel would try to outclass the others by having the best jazz band. Eventually jazz evolved into what we know today as "rock and roll."

Now, you obviously disagree with that analysis. The challenge for you is to prove that Jazz is rooted in a pure source and can be used to worship God. However, a simple google search shows the presumption is against you:

The American music were made of mixture of all songs and tunes from New England to New Orleans. They are hymns, fork songs, spirituals, work songs, gospels, blues, and ragtime. In southern area, rhythm of African drums was woven into them, and new American music called "Jazz" was created. This rhythm of drums distinguishes Jazz from other music. Storyville, the famed red light district of New Orleans opened in 1897. And Jazz had been prospered in Storyville until the middle of 1910s. It was named after New Orleans alderman Sidney Story.

Origin of Jazz

The word jazz is said to originate from American slang and is supposed to have been jass and that was a rude sexual slang related to the jasmine perfume worn by the urban prostitutes. Today if you look up jazz as a word in the dictionary it will translate to animation; nonsense; enthusiasm and miscellaneous.

the origin of jazz music and its magic

Etymology of Jazz
JAS, JASS, JAZ, JASCZ or just plain JAZZ
"If the truth was really known about the origins of Jazz,
it would certainly never be mentioned in polite society."

The expression arose sometime during the later nineteenth century in the better brothels of New Orleans, which provided music and dancing as well as sex. The original Jazz band, according to Herbert Asbury's The Latin Quarter (1938), was the 'Spasm Band' made up of seven boys, aged twelve to fifteen, who first appeared in New Orleans about 1895. They advertised themselves as the "Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band."

In c.1900 (see Jazz Timeline) another band adopted the same billing for an appearance at the Haymarket dance hall, it is said the 'Spasms' loaded their pockets with rocks and dropped by to protest the infringement. This prompted the owner of the hall to repaint his advertising placards to read: "Razzy Dazzy Jazzy Band!" If the memories of Asbury's sources were correct (he talked to two surviving members of the 'Spasms') this represents the word's earliest-known appearance in print.

'Jazz' is not a bad word now, but almost certainly is of extremely low origin, referring to copulation before it was applied to music, dancing, and nonsense (i.e., all that Jazz). The vulgar word was in general currency in dance halls thirty years or more ago" (Clay Smith, Etude 9/24). "According to Raven I. McDavid Sr. of Greenville, S.C., the 1919 announcement of the first 'Jazz band' to play in Columbia, where he was then serving in the state legislature, inspired feelings of terror among the local Baptists such as what might have been aroused by a personal appearance of Yahweh. Until that time 'Jazz' had never been heard in the Palmetto States except as a verb meaning to copulate" (H. L. Mencken, The American Language Raven I. McDavid Jr. 1963). "She never stepped out of line once in all the years we been teamed up. I can't sell her on jazzing the chump now" (William Lindsay Gresham, Nightmare Alley 1946).

'Jazz' probably comes from a Creole or perhaps African word, but exact connections have not been proven. The presumed sexual origin is quite in accord with the development of many other related words, most notably:

'boogie-woogie' was used in the nineteenth century by blacks in the American South to refer to secondary syphilis.

'gig' the musician's engagement, probably derives immediately from the 'gig' that is a dance or party, but 'gig' and 'gigi' (or 'giggy') also are old slang terms for the vulva; the first has been dated to the seventeenth century.

'jelly roll' is black slang from the nineteenth century for the vulva, with various related meanings, i.e. sexual intercourse, a loving woman, a man obsessed with finding same. "What you want?" she asked softly. "Jelly roll?'" (Thomas Wolfe, Look Homeward Angel 1929). The term probably derives from 'jelly' meaning semen: "Give her cold jelly to take up her belly, And once a day swinge her again" (John Fletcher, The Begger's Bush 1622). Related expressions include 'jelly bag,' referring both to the scrotum and the female genitals; 'jerk [one's] jelly,' to **********; and 'jelly,' a good-looking woman. 'Jelly roll' appears in many blues songs, such as "I Ain't Gonna Give Nobody None o' My Jelly Roll," "Nobody in Town Can Bake a Jelly Roll Like Mine," and "Jelly Roll Blues," the last by Ferdinand Joseph La Menthe "Jelly Roll" Morton (1885-1941).

'juke' The modern 'jukebox' was preceded by 'juke house' which was a brothel to Southern blacks; the basic term coming from a Gullah word meaning disorderly or wicked.

'swing' The now archaic 'swinge' was used for many years as a synonym for copulation ('swive' according to the OED's discreet definition). Note the quote from 1622 in 'jelly roll' above. Or as John Dryden put it: "And that baggage, Beatrix, how I would swinge her if I could" (Enemy's Love 1668). The oldest meaning of both 'swinge' and 'swing' deal with beating, striking and whipping (i.e., the swing of a weapon predates the back and forth swaying of a swing or the rhythmic swing of music). For reasons that are not hard to guess, the conjunction of violent and sexual senses within the same word is very common.

In a more modern sense, Swing has been used describing 'wife-swapping' and related activities involving one or more partners of either sex. It has been so used from about 1964 or earlier, depending on the interpretation one gives to Frank Sinatra's 1956 record album Songs for Swinging Lovers.

"I don't know where Jazz is going. Maybe it's going to hell.
You can't make anything go anywhere. It just happens" - Thelonious Monk

Jazz Etymology

 

[OPC'n]

Thomascartwright,
no one is saying that we should use jazz in our worship service. Do you listen to any music that isn't Psalms or hymns? Because if you do then I think most would fit the description you give. Even classical music can be used for bad opera if one wants to use it that way!

 

[bookslover]

I've been listening to jazz all my life. It is based on the same Western chord progressions and harmonies as classical music, folk music, and most other music emanating from the European tradition, with improvisation being the other major component. (In fact, in the history of classical music, improvisation was, at one time, the test of a true classical instrumentalist - ask Mozart or Haydn.)

Yes, jazz has a history of originally emanating from the seamier side of towns like New Orleans, Chicago, and New York. And some of the rhythm elements have come from African and (later) Carribean sources - which is not only not a problem, but gives jazz some of its rhythmic richness.

And, yes, some jazz musicians, especially in the earlier decades, have had problems with alcohol and drugs - and many paid the price with their lives (Exhibit A: Charlie Parker, who died at 34 but, according to the coroner who examined his body but didn't know who he was, he had the body of a 70-year-old). But, most of these problems are not nearly as great as they used to be. Besides, there have been drinkers and druggies in ALL forms of music, so you can't just pin that on jazz.

Modern jazz musicians are disciplined professionals who work very hard at what they do - the constant traveling and recording takes up a great deal of their time.

And, the most talented jazz musicians are wonderful improvisors - constantly improvising on either the melody, the harmonies, or the chord changes of the songs they play (often standards from the Great American Songbook, when they are not playing their own original compositions). And the best improvisors will never play the same song the same way twice. That's the essence of jazz, after all.

It's the one true American art form.

-----Added 3/19/2009 at 01:42:46 EST-----

Ella, hands down.

Here in Cape Town, the jazz/classical station plays jazz while I drive to Bible study on Wednesday nights. There is usually an Ella Fitzgerald song during my drive time. I get my "Ella fix" for the night and then arrive for Christian fellowship!

-----Added 3/18/2009 at 10:37:36 EST-----

Ella has the energy and the flexibility to take vocals to the next level. Always amazing.

Ella Jane Fitzgerald (1917-1996) - the best!

-----Added 3/19/2009 at 01:45:35 EST-----

I like Mel Tormé, or my current favorite is Diane Krall, although Diane is more of a jazz pianist, jazz singer combination. But for Jazz Sax, no one can touch
Paul Desmond's "Take Five" (Dave Brubeck Quartet)

I agree. Paul Desmond is the finest sax player ever. His "Polka Dots and Moonbeams" is my favourite jazz album -- I can listen to that over and over again. He's just so smooothh...

Paul Desmond - he once said that he wanted his sound to remind listeners of a dry martini!

He also threatened to call his autobiography (which he didn't live to write - he died of cancer in 1977 or 1978 at the age of 52) How Many of You Are There in the Quartet, the question he was asked most often by (ignorant) fans...

 

[Tim]

Nope. Jazz is most definitely not ' predicated on the presupposition that there are no absolutes'. It is grounded upon the same absolutes as every other type of music, at least Western music. It is ludicrous to think that it has no basis in music theory. Frankly it takes a musician who is very skilled in the 'absolutes' in order to play real jazz. Even those who are not classically trained have an incredible grasp on music theory. Almost every type of music in the world contains improvisation, even Baroque, Classical, and Romantic.

One question: Are you a musician?

I am someone who has taken courses on hymnology and contemporary music at Seminary, although I would not call myself a musician. However, I don't have to be a drug addict to understand the roots and evils of taking drugs. All of us have the Biblical right (and duty) to study the roots, philosophy and fruits of a music genre and determine if it is acceptable to offer in worship to God. This is especially so when the music genre is from the post-Enlightenment culture and has not historically been part of Reformed worship.

I am sure we all agree that music is not neutral and that satan has his own form of evil music to compete with true worship of God. In your comments you simply denied my premises without offering any evidence to the contrary. No one denies that skilled musicians play Jazz - satan is a very skilled musician and philosopher so that argument is not conclusive. The point I made was that the devil perverts the order of God hence the rise of divorce, homosexuality etc and any genre of music that takes what is absolute and presents it as existential and subjective I am entitled to question the purpose.

Now, if we turn to look at the origins of Jazz that should be suggestive of the presuppositions behind it.

Back in 1966 Bob Dylan told an interviewer, ‘if people knew what this stuff was about, we'd probably all get arrested.’ The words "rock and roll in the original patios drawn from the lingo of the blues and jazz players of the early fifties were synonymous with the act of (fornication). . . . (Lust) is the main ingredient in rock music and the artists and producers who crank it out make no bones about this." (National Review, Feb, 1989)

Music must reflect a harmonious union between its emotional and textual message.(1 Cor 14:15;John 4:23-24; 1 John 4:1). According to one writer,



Now, you obviously disagree with that analysis. The challenge for you is to prove that Jazz is rooted in a pure source and can be used to worship God. However, a simple google search shows the presumption is against you:


Origin of Jazz

The word jazz is said to originate from American slang and is supposed to have been jass and that was a rude sexual slang related to the jasmine perfume worn by the urban prostitutes. Today if you look up jazz as a word in the dictionary it will translate to animation; nonsense; enthusiasm and miscellaneous.

the origin of jazz music and its magic

Etymology of Jazz
JAS, JASS, JAZ, JASCZ or just plain JAZZ
"If the truth was really known about the origins of Jazz,
it would certainly never be mentioned in polite society."

The expression arose sometime during the later nineteenth century in the better brothels of New Orleans, which provided music and dancing as well as sex. The original Jazz band, according to Herbert Asbury's The Latin Quarter (1938), was the 'Spasm Band' made up of seven boys, aged twelve to fifteen, who first appeared in New Orleans about 1895. They advertised themselves as the "Razzy Dazzy Spasm Band."

In c.1900 (see Jazz Timeline) another band adopted the same billing for an appearance at the Haymarket dance hall, it is said the 'Spasms' loaded their pockets with rocks and dropped by to protest the infringement. This prompted the owner of the hall to repaint his advertising placards to read: "Razzy Dazzy Jazzy Band!" If the memories of Asbury's sources were correct (he talked to two surviving members of the 'Spasms') this represents the word's earliest-known appearance in print.

'Jazz' is not a bad word now, but almost certainly is of extremely low origin, referring to copulation before it was applied to music, dancing, and nonsense (i.e., all that Jazz). The vulgar word was in general currency in dance halls thirty years or more ago" (Clay Smith, Etude 9/24). "According to Raven I. McDavid Sr. of Greenville, S.C., the 1919 announcement of the first 'Jazz band' to play in Columbia, where he was then serving in the state legislature, inspired feelings of terror among the local Baptists such as what might have been aroused by a personal appearance of Yahweh. Until that time 'Jazz' had never been heard in the Palmetto States except as a verb meaning to copulate" (H. L. Mencken, The American Language Raven I. McDavid Jr. 1963). "She never stepped out of line once in all the years we been teamed up. I can't sell her on jazzing the chump now" (William Lindsay Gresham, Nightmare Alley 1946).

'Jazz' probably comes from a Creole or perhaps African word, but exact connections have not been proven. The presumed sexual origin is quite in accord with the development of many other related words, most notably:

'boogie-woogie' was used in the nineteenth century by blacks in the American South to refer to secondary syphilis.

'gig' the musician's engagement, probably derives immediately from the 'gig' that is a dance or party, but 'gig' and 'gigi' (or 'giggy') also are old slang terms for the vulva; the first has been dated to the seventeenth century.

'jelly roll' is black slang from the nineteenth century for the vulva, with various related meanings, i.e. sexual intercourse, a loving woman, a man obsessed with finding same. "What you want?" she asked softly. "Jelly roll?'" (Thomas Wolfe, Look Homeward Angel 1929). The term probably derives from 'jelly' meaning semen: "Give her cold jelly to take up her belly, And once a day swinge her again" (John Fletcher, The Begger's Bush 1622). Related expressions include 'jelly bag,' referring both to the scrotum and the female genitals; 'jerk [one's] jelly,' to **********; and 'jelly,' a good-looking woman. 'Jelly roll' appears in many blues songs, such as "I Ain't Gonna Give Nobody None o' My Jelly Roll," "Nobody in Town Can Bake a Jelly Roll Like Mine," and "Jelly Roll Blues," the last by Ferdinand Joseph La Menthe "Jelly Roll" Morton (1885-1941).

'juke' The modern 'jukebox' was preceded by 'juke house' which was a brothel to Southern blacks; the basic term coming from a Gullah word meaning disorderly or wicked.

'swing' The now archaic 'swinge' was used for many years as a synonym for copulation ('swive' according to the OED's discreet definition). Note the quote from 1622 in 'jelly roll' above. Or as John Dryden put it: "And that baggage, Beatrix, how I would swinge her if I could" (Enemy's Love 1668). The oldest meaning of both 'swinge' and 'swing' deal with beating, striking and whipping (i.e., the swing of a weapon predates the back and forth swaying of a swing or the rhythmic swing of music). For reasons that are not hard to guess, the conjunction of violent and sexual senses within the same word is very common.

In a more modern sense, Swing has been used describing 'wife-swapping' and related activities involving one or more partners of either sex. It has been so used from about 1964 or earlier, depending on the interpretation one gives to Frank Sinatra's 1956 record album Songs for Swinging Lovers.

"I don't know where Jazz is going. Maybe it's going to hell.
You can't make anything go anywhere. It just happens" - Thelonious Monk

Jazz Etymology

I know some may not like what our brother has written, but I for one am going to consider this carefully. Is it possible that jazz is less benign than I thought? Yes, maybe this is the case. Some of you may have seen my negative views of rock and roll, and if jazz is similarly tainted with ungodly themes, however covert to the modern ear, then this demands that the Christian be vigilant about what he chooses for entertainment. I am going to do some hard thinking on this.

Thank-you, P.S., for what you have written.