Christian Goth???

Discussion in 'Defending the Faith' started by LadyFlynt, May 27, 2005.

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  1. Augusta

    Augusta Puritan Board Doctor

    I believe that it was already established early on why "Goths" wear what they wear. They are rebelling against social norms. They want to shock people. They want to look different from the "normals." They also like to look half dead. :tombstone:

    All I have to do is look in the local school yard to see that clothing speaks volumes. You have your preps, jocks, punks, rockers, hicks, hip hops, goths, and geeks. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess what group they identify with.

    Each group has its undercurrents. YES, they all are individuals each different from from one another. BUT they want to fit in somewhere and so they dress like the group they either like or by other circumstances joined.

    You also have the prudes and the easy girls. Now you guys don't even try to tell me that you didn't know which girls would put out and which ones wouldn't in school. This was usually based on dress. You can tell alot about a woman by how she dresses.

    Of course reading people by their dress is not fool proof or mathematically precise. There are variances. Usually if someone doesn't mind dressing like a certain group it is because they either identify with them or don't mind at least being affiliated with them. Based on some of the themes of these various groups this can be a problem. A rebellious group I would be particularly careful of. I have three daughters and I don't want them to be identified with any group unless its the prudes. :)

    I personally, and maybe its just me, would not like to be affiliated with S&M types so I leave out the black leather collar and whips from my attire.[​IMG]

    [Edited on 6-2-2005 by Augusta]
     
  2. turmeric

    turmeric Megerator

    Okay, okay, I'm gonna help the Texan out a little!

    I happen to know that one of the early influences on Goth culture was a series of books by Anne Rice about fictional vampires, trying to humanize the myth. The end result was a cast of fictional characters who had their own late-night culture based on a depraved need for human blood which was often expressed in a quasi-sexual way, particularly when they "recruited" mortals and made them vampires. These were always good-looking stylish mortals. So there's a lot of camp in these books. I know because I read nearly all of them before becoming a Christian.

    That being said, I'm not sure if every kid who dresses "goth" has read these books or is into this, but SOME definitely are, in the early days some actually believed they were vampires or becoming vampires and would suck blood from each other which is just unhygienic anyway. I"M NOT SAYING THEY ALL DO THIS! The ones who did, or maybe still do, (I've lost touch) were on psychedelic drugs which can make one very suggestible (yes, to the occult as well, believe me!)

    I'm still uncomfortable with "devil-talk" for the reasons I mentioned in an earlier post, but if I were to advise Lady Flint on this, I would ask her to check with this catechumen where she is with her beliefs about Satan, about Jesus being the only way to God, in other words, make sure she's an actual convert, if so, help her understand God's word about sexual morality among other things, and watch the Holy Spirit remove whatever He doesn't want in her life, in His time.
     
  3. D Battjes

    D Battjes Puritan Board Freshman

    I just think they are ugly. And leave it at that....:bigsmile::banana:

    Personally, I remember beign called to the Church by Sovereign grace, I entered my first day with a shirt and tie. I was so uncomfortable, but people liked it. THen I started to wear sandals and shorts and shirts. My hair was kinda long, and hemp attire around my neck.

    I would walk around barefoot most of the time. The blue hairs and "snooty" religious condemned me as a hippie Jesus Freak.

    SOme of my friends began to join us at church dressed the same way. Soon in the bulliten it was asked that al peoople must wear shoes and dress appropriately. We had new cushions and a new rug put in recently.

    And Elder, who was "hippieish" also, came into the sanctuary one night, took the cushions off the pews, and rolled up the new rug, exposing the wooden floor, then wrote an announcement, "The cushions and rugs have been removed so those whom Christ has called that are being criticised for not wearing the correct "church clothes" will not ruin them,,...,.

    The congregation went wild.

    Hence, since that time, I refrain from tye dyes, but still remove my sandals!!!!!!

    [Edited on 6-2-2005 by D Battjes]
     
  4. Texas Aggie

    Texas Aggie Puritan Board Freshman

    Look, "œthe path of darkness" is a reality if one begins to embrace some of the ideals of the Goth culture (New Age, Shamanism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Gnosticism, Wicca, Neo-pagan traditions, whatever). These are the popular religions of the group, you can't deny this.

    The dress itself has no morality... we have established that. It is the identity to the group which makes a statement.

    Your choice to dress Goth will stereotype you into this sub-culture (does not matter what your intention is). Deliberately choosing this fashion will bring tremendous scrutiny because of the mere "œassociation."

    Don´t be blind to the fact that the rest of the world associates this group with Marilyn Manson, Columbine, the occult, whatever (just examples). Although, this may not be the case for all Goths, it is for many. Most people see it in this manner.

    As a "œChristian" Goth, you may need to check your motives about your appearance. You would be drawing serious attention to yourself, not to Christ for the purpose of His glory. Jesus Christ set the perfect example for how a man lives on earth. He, in fact, blended into the masses... unrecognizable to His own people.

    In addition to drawing attention to yourself and away from God, you instantly align yourself with this sub-culture. Your appearance tells the world that you identify with this group.

    The lifestyle and subsequent values of the Gothic culture fill a need for people. The black clothing and dark music reflect internal workings (most Goths will even admit this). Many come from dysfunctional families and painful childhoods and they easily identify with one another. Not all, but many are filled with depression, hatred, despair... they will make these a "œlifestyle" choice and equate it to art. Depression, hatred and despair are just a few examples of the spiritual influence over this stronghold.

    Christians who identify themselves with this group portray a false witness for Christianity. The Spirit within will not direct a believer to portray a lifestyle, image, stereotype or "œartistic" venture relating to such a sub-culture.

    Believe what you wish.
     
  5. Jie-Huli

    Jie-Huli Puritan Board Freshman

    I agree completely.

    How could anyone here disagree?

    1. The "Goth" subculture is built on blatantly sinful and anti-Christian philosophies.
    2. To desire to take the name "Goth", and to purposefully study and align oneself with the fashions of this group (not just accidentally dressing in a way somewhat similar to the group, i.e., wearing black clothing, but purposefully and with great attention coordinating oneself with an array of fashion markings distinct to the group) is surely to intentionally join oneself to and identify with this unholy movement.

    As Mr. Daniel has said, it is the intent of the heart which is paramount. If someone is a true Christian, and repelled by the perversions and evils which are a fundamental part of the "Goth" movement, why in the world would the person desire to identify with them? From my understanding, Goths put a great deal of care into the way they look, so it is a very expressive thing. Why in the world would a Christian want to express what "Goth" garb expresses? Why in the world would a Christian desire to center their identity on something other than their place in Christ? Why would a Christian desire for so much attention to be distracted away from Christ?

    "For what fellowship hath righteousness and unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? . . . Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." 2 Cor. 6:14, 17-18.

    Quite frankly, I believe there is quite a lot of sophistry going on in this thread, at the expense of heartfelt discussion of how to help these people.

    [Edited on 6-3-2005 by Jie-Huli]
     
  6. Texas Aggie

    Texas Aggie Puritan Board Freshman

    Great perspective Jie-Huli. I know you understand what I am saying and I know you understand Hosea 4:6.

    I find it interesting that none of the church leaders (many who post on this website) have not posted one word on this topic. Everyone who has made a comment on this post are members of various congregations.

    I would definitely like to hear what "senior church leadership" has to say on this issue.

    "œKeep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23).
     
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