Dance in Worship....

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Sven

1. In our culture, we have grown accustomed to thinking of dance as a "worldly" thing to do. This idea probably came from the Puritans and the Anabaptists (we should probably consider the Anabaptist influence more when talking about broader evangelicalism). Dance as a pastime was looked down upon by these two groups. However, if we look beyond our British/European roots, dancing is not considered one of the three deadly sins (along with smoking and drinking). The Jews are probably our most prime example of those who do not consider dancing evil. True, like all things, dancing can be used for evil purposes, but evil purposes do not make a thing bad in itself. We have many examples of dancing in the Old and New Testaments. It was a common practice in the Jewish culture. It is not considered a bad thing. It is, in fact, commended by Scripture.

I agree with your overall assessment that dancing can be done and used for many purposes. In and of itself, it is not proscribed by God speaking through Scripture. While there are instances of it being used to evil ends such as Herodias' daughter dancing for the king and resulting in an impulsive response leading to the death of John the Baptist, one cannot say it is biblically automatically evil.

Indeed, there are some artistically gifted Christians who use this ability deliberately for the glory of God, and particularly among the arts community.

Dancing can be done for entertainment, or to provoke lust and the many sins thereof, or for recreation and exercise or even to tell a story with a biblical theme, or even a combination of these purposes.

While it may provide ways to glorify God through right use of talents and abilities for God's people, and provide wholesome recreation, exercise, and entertainment to others, our confessions, summarizing the doctrine of Scripture tell us it is not an ordinance of corporate worship.
 
I consider dance in a worship setting "eyewash" at best, something to put on a show, something to dazzle "the crowd" and keep 'em coming back. The choreographed stuff with flags or banners :barfy: . To boil it down, pleasing to some people's flesh, but not likely to God. However, if something great just happened to an individual or group that gave them a God given blessing, they might dance. An example would be someone crippled up with arthritis for years healed during prayer and they jump up and hop around a bit while giving glory to God.
 
Evangelicalism by-and-large is Non-RPW. The Normative principle can be construed to allow dance. However, John Frame's broadened view of RPW would even allow it within certain bounds.

Therefore the answer is apparently clear to the strict RPWers, but not so to others.

You're right.

This is a benefit of having a Confession, and being bound together in unity by one.

Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter XXI
Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day

III. Prayer, with thanksgiving, being one special part of religious worship,[6] is by God required of all men:[7] and, that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son,[8] by the help of His Spirit,[9] according to His will,[10] with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love and perseverance;[11] and, if vocal, in a known tongue.[12]

...

V. The reading of the Scriptures with godly fear,[17] the sound preaching[18] and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith and reverence,[19] singing of psalms with grace in the heart;[20] as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God:[21] beside religious oaths,[22] vows,[23] solemn fastings,[24] and thanksgivings upon special occasions,[25] which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner.[26]

Westminster Larger Catechism

Q. 108. What are the duties required in the second commandment?

A. The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his Word;[518] particularly prayer and thanksgiving in the name of Christ;[519] the reading, preaching, and hearing of the Word;[520] the administration and receiving of the sacraments;[521] church government and discipline;[522] the ministry and maintainance thereof;[523] religious fasting;[524] swearing by the name of God;[525] and vowing unto him;[526] as also the disapproving, detesting, opposing all false worship;[527] and, according to each one’s place and calling, removing it, and all monuments of idolatry.[528]

Scott do you know any groups like that?
 
know any groups like that?

Not sure if you are asking what groups adhere to the regulative principle of worship.

It is one of the doctrines of reformed theology, from application of the second commandment. The ten commandments being a "rule for life" for the Christian. Presbyterian and reformed denominations would generally hold to this.
 
(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Psa 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Okay,

I recently attended a worship service where we were singing the song Holy, Holy, Holy. During the song there were three moderately dressed women doing a ballet inside a circle of red ribbon. It was suppose to symbolize the unity of fellowship in the blood of Christ.

The two passages above were used to justify a prescription in dancing during the worship service. This is not an EP debate so please keep the EP debate out of this. I am not EP. But I am not so sure this is a prescription for a worship service as much as something we are allowed to do outside of it as David did before the return of the Ark of the Covenant to the Temple during his time. He danced before the Lord as the ark was on its return home. It was worship but it wasn't in the Temple either.

How might I respond to this in a right manner?

Interestingly enough, I am at the moment working on it to try to find out what is meant by worship in Scripture. It seems that there is quite some confusion about it. Here are some of my thoughts and quotes from Calvyn.

Someone in this thread mentioned the use of having a confession. The Heidelberg Cathecism, Q/A 96 reads as follows:

Question 96. What does God require in the second commandment?

Answer: That we in no wise represent God by images, (a) nor worship him in any other way than he has commanded in his word. (b)

It says thus that we are not to worship him in any other way than he has commanded in his word. The HC gives 1 Sam 15:22,23 as one of the Scriptural bases for this answer and this in effect says that to obey is better than sacrifice. Verse 23 states very clearly that stubbornness is idolatry!

The question then is what is the way in which he commanded us to worship him? It seems as if this is where opinions go apart. I prefer to follow Calvin's position on this. 1 Sam 15:22,23 is such a serious warning that we have to make an effort to find from Scripture what is pleasing to God so that we worship him the way he wants it. In Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan women he said to her: God is Spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. God's worship is therefore spiritual. Our worship has to be in accordance with God's nature. On this Calvin writes as follows:

The worship of God is said to consist in the spirit, because it is nothing else than that inward faith of the heart which produces prayer, and, next, purity of conscience and self-denial, that we may be dedicated to obedience to God as holy sacrifices.

Calvyn also writes

Let us now see what is meant by the due worship of God. Its chief foundation is to acknowledge him to be, as he is, the only source of all virtue, justice, holiness, wisdom, truth, power, goodness, mercy, life, and salvation; in accordance with this, to ascribe and render to him the glory of all that is good, to seek all things in him alone, and in every want have recourse to him alone. Hence arises prayer, hence praise and thanksgiving, these being attestations to the glory which we attribute to him. This is that genuine sanctification of his name which he requires of us above all things. To this is united adoration, by which we manifest for him the reverence due to his greatness and excellency; and to this ceremonies are subservient, as helps or instruments, in order that, in the performance of divine worship, the body may be exercised at the same time with the soul. Next after these comes self-abasement, when, renouncing the world and the flesh, we are transformed in the renewing of our mind and living no longer to ourselves, submit to be ruled and actuated by him. By this self-abasement we are trained to obedience and devotedness to his will, so that his fear reigns in our hearts, and regulates all the actions of our lives.

That in these things consists the true and sincere worship which alone God approves, and in which alone he delights, is both taught by the Holy Spirit throughout the scriptures, and is also, antecedent to discussion, the obvious dictate of piety. Nor from the beginning was there any other method of worshipping God, the only difference being, that this spiritual truth, which with us is naked and simple, was under the former dispensation wrapped up in figures. And this is the meaning of our Saviour's words, "The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23). For by these words he meant not to declare that God was not worshipped by the fathers in this spiritual manner, but only to point out a distinction in the external form: that is, that while they had the Spirit shadowed forth by many figures, we have it in simplicity. But it has always been an acknowledged point, that God, who is a Spirit, must be worshipped in spirit and in truth.

Moreover, the rule which distinguishes between pure and vitiated worship is of universal application, in order that we may not adopt any device which seems fit to ourselves, but look to the injunctions of him who alone is entitled to prescribe. Therefore, if we would have him to approve our worship, this rule, which he everywhere enforces with the utmost strictness, must be carefully observed. For there is a twofold reason why the Lord, in condemning and prohibiting all fictitious worship, requires us to give obedience only to his own voice. First, it tends greatly to establish his authority that we do not follow our own pleasure, but depend entirely on his sovereignty; and, secondly, such is our folly, that when we are left at liberty, all we are able to do is to go astray. And then when once we have turned aside from the right path, there is no end to our wanderings, until we get buried under a multitude of superstitions. Justly, therefore, does the Lord, in order to assert his full right of dominion, strictly enjoin what he wishes us to do, and at once reject all human devices which are at variance with his command. Justly, too, does he, in express terms, define our limits, that we may not, by fabricating perverse modes of worship, provoke his anger against us.

I know how difficult it is to persuade the world that God disapproves of all modes of worship not expressly sanctioned by his word. The opposite persuasion which cleaves to them, being seated, as it were, in their very bones and marrow, is, that whatever they do has in itself a sufficient sanction, provided it exhibits some kind of zeal for the honor of God. But since God not only regards as fruitless, but also plainly abominates, whatever we undertake from zeal to his worship, if at variance with his command, what do we gain by a contrary course? The words of God are clear and distinct, "Obedience is better than sacrifice." "In vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men," (1 Sam. 15:22; Matt. 15:9). Every addition to his word, especially in this matter, is a lie. Mere "will worship" (ethelothreeskeia) is vanity. This is the decision, and when once the judge has decided, it is no longer time to debate.


Finally, I would like to point out that in Revelation we have many examples of heavenly worship. For example: Rev. 4:10, 11; 5:12, 13; 7:11,12; 11:16-18. What is consistent in all these cases is that worship consist of saying intelligible words. Repeatedly we read "..[they] worshiped God, saying ..." My impression is that modern trends, such as using dance, for example, want to side step this clear example of heavenly worship. If this is the heavenly example, why should we do it different. ?

Comments?
 
Is worship a "spectator sport"?

No.

How is watching a bunch of "moves", even "chaste" moves, supposed to edify me? Does it come with a "program of instruction" that verbally teaches me what all the "moves" mean?

Actually, there are a few tribes over in Africa where this very thing is built-in as a part of the church culture. My now former pastor told me about a few of them and how the ENTIRE CONGREGATION was involved, not just sitting there watching.

So it's possible....and very workable.
 
I am sure that we all at times have trouble concentrating on worship, it is hard for us but what we should do is to mortify our sin, not find ways to replace worship with temporal pleasure.
 
(Psa 149:3) Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

(Psa 150:4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

Okay,

I recently attended a worship service where we were singing the song Holy, Holy, Holy. During the song there were three moderately dressed women doing a ballet inside a circle of red ribbon. It was suppose to symbolize the unity of fellowship in the blood of Christ.

The two passages above were used to justify a prescription in dancing during the worship service. This is not an EP debate so please keep the EP debate out of this. I am not EP. But I am not so sure this is a prescription for a worship service as much as something we are allowed to do outside of it as David did before the return of the Ark of the Covenant to the Temple during his time. He danced before the Lord as the ark was on its return home. It was worship but it wasn't in the Temple either.

How might I respond to this in a right manner?

For what it's worth, the translation of the word "dance" there is debated because it's not used much. Some think it refers to some sort of pipe. So I would not ground anything in worship practice upon something so speculative. Unfortunately, all my references are packed up for now. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. :2cents:
 
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