Dispensational refutation

[Notthemama1984]

I am looking for a fair and gentle book against dispensationalism. I am looking to hand it to someone. Everything I have is not kind [or at least will not be perceived as kind. (for example when Pink refers to Dispensationalists as the Enemy.)] and won't go over well.

Thanks in advance

 

[Scott1]

A Case for Amillennialism, by Kim Riddlebarger addresses the issue broadly in an irenic and winsome manner.

 

[Notthemama1984]

That deals with eschatology. Is there something that deals with dispensationalism in general?

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

This book by John Gerstner is the best I have read.

Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth by John. H. Gerstner Dr. John Gerstner on the Errors of Dispensationalism [] - $19.95 : The Reformed.org Store

 

[fredtgreco]

The Gerstner book is not kind. You should not give it to a Dispensationalist who will be put off by being called sub-Christian.

The best book for this is "Understanding Dispensationalism" by Vern Poythress.

 

[JM]

Gerstner is too combative, I read it when I was a Dispey and it was not helpful at all.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Thanks for the suggestions. Keep them coming.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Disregard my suggestion. I need to learn to read.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

Vern Poythress's book.

 

[Steve Curtis]

to Poythress up: to Gerstner as well, though, as mentioned, not irenic)

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Yes, I agree, Poythress's book Understanding Dispensationalism.

If you have a chance look at this also. This use to be in a booklet form years ago.

http://www.puritanboard.com/blogs/puritancovenanter/reference-why-i-left-scofieldism-william-e-cox-525/

 

[Pilgrim]

I haven't read Poythress' book, but I seem to recall reading that in preparing to write the book that he spent quite a bit of time at Dallas Seminary in discussion with the folks there. It appears to be available online here.

What about Gunn and Crenshaw's Dispensationalism: Today, Yesterday and Tomorrow? I've heard it is also irenic in tone. But it looks like it might not be in print.

There is always Oswald T. Allis' Prophecy and the Church, but it addresses Classic Dispensationalism of the Scofield/Chafer variety and is thus several decades out of date. Nevertheless some Independent Fundamental Baptists and some older Bible church laymen are still influenced by the teaching of the old Scofield Bible.

 

[CharlieJ]

You could also go the route of trying to make a positive case for your theology. After all, a person is not likely to abandon his theology unless they are presented with a clear, compelling alternative. Also, the reader may not get as defensive, because he isn't reading a critique.

My favorite book to give to Dispensationalists is According to Plan by Graeme Goldsworthy. So far, God has used it (along with other things) to nudge a number of my friends out of Dispensationalism. Perhaps you have a book or two that you think makes your case very well.

Oh, and I also concur with Poythress. He helped me out of Dispensationalism.

 

[KSon]

The best book for this is "Understanding Dispensationalism" by Vern Poythress.

When I read it this as a Dispensational, I was not put off but rather I was challenged. This, too, would be my recommendation, as it raises questions about certain Dispensational presuppositions but does so (unlike the book by Gerstner) in a humble, irenic way.

 

[Notthemama1984]

I do appreciate everyone's response. It is nice to have such good friends able to help out when needed.

 

[Rob H]

In my case, I didn't read a book, though Poythress has been recommended often (and I have it coming soon).

A preacher did a sermon series on Rev. His perspective was Amil and very challenging. It's been recorded, if you're interested: Pacific Hope That prompted me to start hunting.
I ended up with two resources that convinced me. One was Riddlebarger's 101 (and tons of his other writing). The other was William Shisko's baptism classes. No joke, I think understanding both went hand-in-hand for me.

 

[Jack K]

I'd add that the Poythress book is short, which generally helps if you're hoping someone else actually reads the thing. It's not particularly light reading, though, rather written for people who're truly interested in studying the issue.

 

[Scott1]

That deals with eschatology. Is there something that deals with dispensationalism in general?

Yes, the book broadly deals with eschatology.

It has been helpful to understand how related dispensationalism is to eschatology, e.g. the modern dispensational premillennial view.

Chapter Two of "A Case for Amillennialism" is titled, "A Survey of Eschatological Views," and begins with a subheading "Dispensationalism." Chapter Three has a subheading "The Dispensational Hermeneutic."

This approach has been very helpful to me in separating dispensationalism from the real mccoy, covenant theology, the general historic position of the church.

It might also be helpful explaining to someone studying this that the term "a" millennialism did not exist historically because it was "the only game in town." There were some variations within it, and there were for periods where a classical premillennialism (not modern dispensational premillenialism) existed. But in the main, a "realized millennium," was the standard view of the church- the millennium beginning when Christ ascended into Heaven, a real reign, but a spiritual one that exists now, and until our Lord's return.

So, historically there was not the central debate that we have in this generation-
whether there is a political kingdom coming for the nation of Israel versus whether Christ rules "for the millenia" right now over all the nations of the earth, which await His judgment, and the consummation of all things.

Dispensationalism, of course denies the present reality of Christ's reign, and says it is only future- usually something that sounds sophisticated like, "an earthly kingdom for an earthly people." It holds that the millennium is only a physical, political kingdom based in one nation, Israel.

Implicitly, dispensationalism really argues for a fourth Temple in Jerusalem (because Jesus was the third). This is another discussion that might be helpful from A Case for Amillennialism.

The tone of the book is helpful and informed, as the author was formerly dispensational in his view. He understands and contrasts both systems, in a fair and masterful way throughout.

Two cents.

 

[Bern]

Coming from a semi- dispensational background myself, I think the problem with dispensationalists generally (I'm talking about your average church member) is that they just believe what they are told by their pastors/ teachers. They are not people who study the bible carefully generally speaking. Ignorance and fear are the two biggest problems. It can be very hard to reason with them as they are irrational and are afraid of reading any literature or listening to any teachers who are not "approved" by their church. I think for most people who come out of arminian dispensational (ish) churches it is a process of gradual exposure to reformed teaching and with God's grace, overcoming their fears.

 

[Covenant Joel]

Keith Mathison's "Dispensationalism: Rightly Dividing the People of God?" is very helpful. His tone is gentle, and he clearly presents the issues. The only caveat I would offer is that he also talks about soteriology/Calvinism a lot, which doesn't inherently go with the discussion of dispensationalism. Dispensationalists don't have an inherent soteriology, but he spends a few chapters addressing it. Other than that, it's probably exactly what you're looking for.

 

[Michael]

How about the Bible?

Yeah I know. I just was surprised that there have been 20 responses and no one chimed in yet from the peanut gallery. Plus I suppose it's not nearly as fair and gentle--or short--as Poythress's book.

 

[R Harris]

How about the Bible?

Yeah I know. I just was surprised that there have been 20 responses and no one chimed in yet from the peanut gallery. Plus I suppose it's not nearly as fair and gentle--or short--as Poythress's book.

Actually there was a book written about 20 years ago by Charles Provan titled "The Church is now Israel." He would simply take OT passages describing Israel and then would provide a NT passage with that exact same language describing the Church, without hardly providing any commentary at all. His intent was to just let the Scripture speak for itself on the matter. I thought it was very unique and masterful in the way that Provan did it.

Unfortunately, I think that his book is still out of print.

 

[Poimen]

Actually there was a book written about 20 years ago by Charles Provan titled "The Church is now Israel." He would simply take OT passages describing Israel and then would provide a NT passage with that exact same language describing the Church, without hardly providing any commentary at all. His intent was to just let the Scripture speak for itself on the matter. I thought it was very unique and masterful in the way that Provan did it. Unfortunately, I think that his book is still out of print.

I don't know if this is the whole book but you can download a copy here.

 

[Scott1]

Coming from a semi- dispensational background myself, I think the problem with dispensationalists generally (I'm talking about your average church member) is that they just believe what they are told by their pastors/ teachers. They are not people who study the bible carefully generally speaking. Ignorance and fear are the two biggest problems. It can be very hard to reason with them as they are irrational and are afraid of reading any literature or listening to any teachers who are not "approved" by their church. I think for most people who come out of arminian dispensational (ish) churches it is a process of gradual exposure to reformed teaching and with God's grace, overcoming their fears.

Generally, there has been no systematic theology of the whole of Scripture taught in "broadly evangelical" communions. There is also, little or no confession of faith to go by.

So, a vague dispensationalism is implicitly assumed, a vacuum in teaching exists, and is left to be filled by a few outside teachers who teach only or mainly "eschatology."

Add to that, the vacuum is often filled by the virtual cottage industry of "prophecy teachers," who pop market themselves and their teaching, with little or no discernment by churches that do not teach much on eschatology, or a systematic theology anyway.

This is where we have a big advantage in reformed theology- a systematic, biblical theology of all of Scripture. It is Scripture interpreting Scripture, with covenant and the person and work of Christ being central to the work of a holy, sovereign God- throughout the Old and New Testaments.

Anecdotal evidence only, true believers often understand "the doctrines of grace" first, and that is powerful.

Later, likely, they begin to understand what covenant theology is first. Then understand the implications of dispensationalism. The power of the first overcomes the latter, but it is overwhelming.

So, be gracious, patient and prayerful in approaching this with a fellow believer.

The implications of changing often will mean the brother or sister must align their understanding with a new communion, admit they were ignorant or wrong.

That's hard for fallen creatures.

All of us.

Yet opens our eyes to the truths of the whole of Scripture, that can change us forever, to the Honor and Glory of the one who speaks through it.

 

[CharlieJ]

Keith Mathison's "Dispensationalism: Rightly Dividing the People of God?" is very helpful. His tone is gentle, and he clearly presents the issues. The only caveat I would offer is that he also talks about soteriology/Calvinism a lot, which doesn't inherently go with the discussion of dispensationalism. Dispensationalists don't have an inherent soteriology, but he spends a few chapters addressing it. Other than that, it's probably exactly what you're looking for.

Yes, the emphasis on soteriology, which would be helpful in a book of constructive theology, is quite harmful in this polemical book. Anti-Calvinists will be turned off by the Calvinism, while soteriological Calvinists feel insulted at the suggestion that they're not really Calvinists. It just doesn't make for clear, open communication.

 

[Covenant Joel]

Yes, the emphasis on soteriology, which would be helpful in a book of constructive theology, is quite harmful in this polemical book. Anti-Calvinists will be turned off by the Calvinism, while soteriological Calvinists feel insulted at the suggestion that they're not really Calvinists. It just doesn't make for clear, open communication.

Agreed. I've always wondered why he felt he should include that section when he certainly knows that not all dispensationalists are Arminian. If someone could release an edition of the book somehow that nixed that whole section, I feel like the rest would be a helpful examination of the key features of dispensationalism.

 

[Notthemama1984]

You can buy the Provan here.
Exodus Books - Church is Israel Now

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I just finished O. Palmer Robertson's book The Israel of God: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow and think it may be a good fit for what you are looking to do.

 

[Notthemama1984]

Thanks

 

[Rook]

Keith Mathison's "Dispensationalism: Rightly Dividing the People of God?" is very helpful. His tone is gentle, and he clearly presents the issues. The only caveat I would offer is that he also talks about soteriology/Calvinism a lot, which doesn't inherently go with the discussion of dispensationalism. Dispensationalists don't have an inherent soteriology, but he spends a few chapters addressing it. Other than that, it's probably exactly what you're looking for.

Yes, the emphasis on soteriology, which would be helpful in a book of constructive theology, is quite harmful in this polemical book. Anti-Calvinists will be turned off by the Calvinism, while soteriological Calvinists feel insulted at the suggestion that they're not really Calvinists. It just doesn't make for clear, open communication.

I understand that you are saying people will be turned off, which very well could be true; but at some point people are going to be turned off in any critique of their system. That point in Mathison's book was extremely helpful for me and many others in understanding that our reformed soteriology did not fit with our former dispensational views. I find that those who call themselves 5-pointers and dispensational have a hard time bringing those two theological truths together. A critique in light of that is extremely helpful for those people specifically, as it was for me.

I think there are probably different books that are helpful for different people that are at different stages in their theological framework.

I do agree with many above that "Understanding Dispensationalism" is a great book to give out to our dispensational brothers. Also, I have found the Puritanboard very helpful in dismantling dispensationalism. It just depends if your dispensational friends can stomach some of the over the top threads, and separate those with the constructive threads. Reading Rev. Bruce (multiple times over and over), and many others on this board helped clear things up immensely. So thanks, and lets keep pursuing our Dispensational brothers.