Do you personally like John Piper?

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Reformed Covenanter

Cancelled Commissioner
I no longer have any use for him. His anti-Trump editorial was *so bad* that it revealed his soundness of judgment is completely gone. Like less judgment than Doug Wilson. That bad.

As I said at the time, that article revealed that he is a train wreck as an ethicist. And as a friend of mine said recently, the "Deplorables" are the modern equivalent of "tax collectors and sinners" in the eyes of Bourgeois evangelicals. There is no winsomeness or empathy to be extended to them. No one recommends showing Deplorables the love of Jesus. They only warrant judgmentalism and denunciation.

That does not mean that I write off all the good work that John Piper has ever done, but the extremity of his errors (in relation to completely missing the bigger picture) on gun control, self-defence, Donald Trump, vaccines, and so forth reveal that he has very poor judgment.
 

C. M. Sheffield

Puritan Board Graduate
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Do you personally like John Piper?
I personally dislike the term Christian hedonist, but I love John Piper
I find I am constantly challenged by his joy and worship in Christ, his humility and his hatred and pain that others would know Jesus. Outside the bible and personal friends, he has been a constant reminder of my phariseeic tendencies and also the free grace of Christ and tenderness even in those moments.
He is Calvinist just not traditionally reformed. I disagree though his theology is non recommendable. I have found many great theologians through Piper, namely Thomas Goodwin, Jonathan Edwards, Michael Reeves, John Macarthur, Richard Sibbes, John Bunyan and John Owen. Not to mention all the right perspective he has helped me to see in scripture (along with other guys like Spurgeon and Samuel Rutherford) the beauty, the sweetness and the fact our savior is all together lovely.

I get it: You love John Piper. That's fine. I guess I just find it strange that you care to gauge our love or lack thereof. I mean, why would it matter? and why do you care?

P.S. I think your choice of avatar adds a bit to the strangeness and awkwardness of this discussion. Just my :2cents:
 
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SolaScriptura

Puritanboard Brimstone
As I said at the time, that article revealed that he is a train wreck as an ethicist. And as a friend of mine said recently, the "Deplorables" are the modern equivalent of "tax collectors and sinners" in the eyes of Bourgeois evangelicals. There is no winsomeness or empathy to be extended to them. No one recommends showing Deplorables the love of Jesus. They only warrant judgmentalism and denunciation.

That does not mean that I write off all the good work that John Piper has ever done, but the extremity of his errors (in relation to completely missing the bigger picture) on gun control, self-defence, Donald Trump, vaccines, and so forth reveal that he has very poor judgment.
When he said that Trump’s (metaphorical) “killing” (with his mean tweets) was worse than the (real) killing taking place in abortion… I about threw away all his books.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
Here is a thought experiment: If someone handed you one of Samuel Rutherford's letters to read but changed the name at the bottom to John Piper's, how would you react to it?
It's hard to tell. Like somebody once said, I'm almost sure it was Jonathan Edwards, "I have learned to listen to the opinions of others, be it from an enemy or a child."

Before becoming a Christian, I met a very drunken man who repeatedly said, "seek, and ye shall find." I knew enough to know that these were the words of Jesus. I could not get them out of my mind, and for some reason, known only to God, what he said was instrumental in my coming to Christ. So was Garner Ted Armstrong. God can use the lightning in the sky.
 

Thomas_Goodwin

Puritan Board Freshman
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I get it: You love John Piper. That's fine. I guess I just find it strange that you care to gauge our love or lack thereof. I mean, why would it matter? and why do you care?

P.S. I think your choice of avatar adds a bit to the strangeness and awkwardness of this discussion. Just my :2cents:
the avatar is funny in my opinion. it was a little tongue and check, but a serious question
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
I find I am constantly challenged by his joy and worship in Christ, his humility and his hatred and pain that others would know Jesus. Outside the bible and personal friends, he has been a constant reminder of my phariseeic tendencies and also the free grace of Christ and tenderness even in those moments. Paul Washer too if we talk modern day only.

No doubt that is true, but he rejects key Reformed categories (like how the Heidelberg Catechism is Guilt, Grace, Gratitude).
 

Thomas_Goodwin

Puritan Board Freshman
I no longer have any use for him. His anti-Trump editorial was *so bad* that it revealed his soundness of judgment is completely gone. Like less judgment than Doug Wilson. That bad.
I understand you may have disagreed with it, but is a wrong assessment of Trump and categories to decide an American president worthy of such a strong judgment (worse than Doug Wilson and federal vision)? He may not have said all things correctly, but around where I am many worship Donald Trump viewing him as the inerrant trumpet of truth and a prophetic voice for the generations. Piper in my mind brought up some overlooked considerations. I could never vote democrat because of abortions, but we could at least realize Donald Trump DOES NOT represent all the best interests of the Christian Church. While we should be active in judging the fruits and works of teachers discern false teachers (a task of utmost importance to preserve sound doctrine and keep others from falling into error), we should also watch out for overly harsh and scornful tendencies to brothers and sisters in Christ.
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
…around where I am many worship Donald Trump viewing him as the inerrant trumpet of truth and a prophetic voice for the generations.
This is a beat up Woke evangelical canard which has no basis in truth. I live in the deep South, surrounded by chicken houses and cow pastures. There are Trump signs everywhere, and maybe one person out of every thousand would dare vote Democrat. But I have never met a single person here who worships Donald Trump. This is the same slander that Roman Catholics spew when they accuse Protestants of worshipping the Bible.

Here is a fact: Woke evangelicals are way more prone to worship the likes of Tim Keller and Russel Moore than Republican Christians are to even consider worshipping Trump. At the very least, they listen to these men over the Bible.
 
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Elizabeth

Puritan Board Sophomore
I don't know him, either, but he seems like a nice man from his sermons and writings.

I think he does the 'emotional' pull real good (sic). Not in the good way of a Rutherford, but in the good way many American women appreciate.

Therefore, I don't take his theological thoughts too seriously. I know, I know...I am a terrible sexist and use womanly logic, besides. ;)
 

Thomas_Goodwin

Puritan Board Freshman
This is a beat up Woke evangelical canard which has no basis in truth. I live in the deep South, surrounded by chicken houses and cow pastures. There are Trump signs everywhere, and maybe one person out if every thousand would dare vote Democrat. But I have never met a single person here who worships Donald Trump. This is the same slander that Roman Catholics spew when they accuse Protestants of worshipping the Bible.

Here is a fact: Woke evangelicals are way more prone to worship the likes of Tim Keller and Russel Moore than Republican Christians are to even consider worshipping Trump. At the very least, they listen to these men over the Bible.
No it is true. I once heard a man say that Trump has done more for the church than anyone since Jesus. Every single time he sins these people defend it or challenge it as if he couldn't sin. I am not saying all people do or even most do, but it is an issue around where I am. Again I could never vote democrat due to abortion, homosexuality, socialism, their defilements of gender and marriage, and I must encourage us to not let politics do their goal, which is to divide us. I meant no offense brother, and we should both look forward to that day when divine mercy shall hand us up into glory, where we shall worship Christ as He is in perfect holiness free from sin exclaiming He is altogether lovely. Further, I look forward to where in Revelation, where Jesus shall rule as king over all the lands, a perfect beautiful and great Lord to have.
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
Politics cannot and will not divide Christian brothers and sisters.
Yes, it can, and in some cases it should. Sure, I will quibble with someone who has a moderately different view of how high or low taxes should be, and I can worship with such a one gladly, but I cannot say "brother" to someone whose political platform asserts that abortion is a human right, that socialism is a societal good, and that white people are evil. He and I do not worship the same God.
 

C4MERON

Puritan Board Freshman
I have benefitted greatly from John Piper over the years. The main thing I ever disagreed with him over was, like just about anyone else I have heard from, his political article concerning President Trump. He is a passionate preacher and I do enjoy listening to him.
 

Thomas_Goodwin

Puritan Board Freshman
Yes, it can, and in some cases it should. Sure, I will quibble with someone who has a moderately different view of how high or low taxes should be, and I can worship with such a one gladly, but I cannot say "brother" to someone whose political platform asserts that abortion is a human right, that socialism is a societal good, and that white people are evil. He and I do not worship the same God.
I can't tell if you think I support the democratic platform.
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Graduate
I can't tell if you think I support the democratic platform.
No, I don't think you do. My point is that it is not true that politics "cannot and will not divide Christian brothers and sisters." I am saying it can and, in some more severe cases, should divide. "What concord hath Christ with Belial?" Hence my preceding post.

Anyway, this isn't the politics forum. We've gotten somewhat far afield from the topic.
 

Thomas_Goodwin

Puritan Board Freshman
No, I don't think you do. My point is that it is not true that politics "cannot and will not divide Christian brothers and sisters." I am saying it can and, in some more severe cases, should divide. "What concord hath Christ with Belial?" Hence my preceding post.

Anyway, this isn't the politics forum. We've gotten somewhat far afield from the topic.
I agree with the last point. What I was saying was more a generality.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
His take on self-defense is another example of how he really doesn't understand the Reformed way of thinking. The shorter catechism's view of the sixth commandment says we must preserve life by all lawful means. Piper rejects that, if someone were to break into your house and threaten (or in reality) kill your family. At best, he says we need to call the police rather than take a life. He's not really clear on how it is okay for the police's taking a life makes it any better.
 

Ed Walsh

Puritan Board Senior
The main thing I ever disagreed with him over was, like just about anyone else I have heard from, his political article concerning President Trump.

The thing that got my attention was his stance on armed self-defense. I heard he recanted a little in recent years, but he was against Christians bearing arms, even in their homes, to defend his wife [his example]. After all, she would be going to heaven. (and whatever he thinks now, his older papers remain online)

Here's one quote that links to his paper.

"I live in the inner city of Minneapolis, and I would personally counsel a Christian not to have a firearm available for such circumstances."
 

RobertPGH1981

Puritan Board Sophomore
When I became a new believer, it was RC Sproul and John Piper who taught me many things through their various works. I moved away from listening to his sermons but find his teachings helpful at times. I still listen to RC though...
 

aaronsk

Puritan Board Freshman
Piper can be helpful until he starts doing practical application with current events, then I look elsewhere. He was helpful early in my walk but as I came to an increasingly reformed understanding (beyond Calvinism) I used him as a resource less and less - almost never now.
 

retroGRAD3

Puritan Board Junior
As other's have mentioned, his Trump stuff and I would say his more recent vaccine stuff, all point to he should just keep his mouth shut sometimes. I think the most troubling thing about him though is his belief in "final justification". I am not sure how some on this board will harp on federal vision so hard (and they should, it's bad), but ignore "final justification", which to me looks very similar.
 

aaronsk

Puritan Board Freshman
As other's have mentioned, his Trump stuff and I would say his more recent vaccine stuff, all point to he should just keep his mouth shut sometimes. I think the most troubling thing about him though is his belief in "final justification". I am not sure how some on this board will harp on federal vision so hard (and they should, it's bad), but ignore "final justification", which to me looks very similar.
I’ve not heard of this before, “final justification”. Can you expand on what it is?
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
. I am not sure how some on this board will harp on federal vision so hard (and they should, it's bad), but ignore "final justification", which to me looks very similar.

Not me. I am very critical of both, though Wilsonites are far more annoying and vocal.
 

augustacarguy

Puritan Board Freshman
No it is true. I once heard a man say that Trump has done more for the church than anyone since Jesus. Every single time he sins these people defend it or challenge it as if he couldn't sin. I am not saying all people do or even most do, but it is an issue around where I am. Again I could never vote democrat due to abortion, homosexuality, socialism, their defilements of gender and marriage, and I must encourage us to not let politics do their goal, which is to divide us. I meant no offense brother, and we should both look forward to that day when divine mercy shall hand us up into glory, where we shall worship Christ as He is in perfect holiness free from sin exclaiming He is altogether lovely. Further, I look forward to where in Revelation, where Jesus shall rule as king over all the lands, a perfect beautiful and great Lord to have.

I’ll bet you aren’t aware at all of your descent into straw man building. At first you say “it is true,” that you “once heard” one man say something, and then in the next sentence you’re broadening it to “these people.” That’s a really clever trick you’re playing in order to smear an entire broad group of people. This sounds exactly like Jemar TIsby and Anthony Bradley and the rest. Just smacking around the bride of Christ with baseless, nameless, allegations. If there are actual Christians that see Trump and say that he is without sin, or actually any Christian that believes anyone is without sin, prove it. Name them. Show us all how this is more than just a single kook, and is actually descriptive of a large portion of Christianity. I don’t believe that.
 
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