Richard King
Puritan Board Senior
This has surely been asked before but I would like to hear your answers.
Does God Love Everybody?
- Thread starter Richard King
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I say, one needs to define the kind of love being spoken of.
Deut. 10:18, 19 "[Jehovah your God] shows his LOVE for the alien by giving him food and clothing. Therefore, show your LOVE for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt." This is the same word for "love" used in verse 12 (human, for God) and verse 15 (divine, for the nation).
But this love is clearly NOT the chesed--the lovingkindness, tender mercy, or covenant-love--that Jehovah reserves for his faithful people. That love is salvific.
Deut. 10:18, 19 "[Jehovah your God] shows his LOVE for the alien by giving him food and clothing. Therefore, show your LOVE for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt." This is the same word for "love" used in verse 12 (human, for God) and verse 15 (divine, for the nation).
But this love is clearly NOT the chesed--the lovingkindness, tender mercy, or covenant-love--that Jehovah reserves for his faithful people. That love is salvific.
Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Did God love the people he destroyed in the flood?
Psalm 11:5 5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Proverbs 6:16-19 16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.
Richard King
Puritan Board Senior
See I am pretty sure I have done everything that God hates mentioned in Proverbs 6:16 and more.
Yet I am certain God has saved me.
Here is an issue I wrestle with.
long ago I was in a car wreck and two friends were killed and another crippled.
Unexplainably I lived and was not crippled.
I remember as a teenager having pretty severe 'survivors' guilt.
Likewise regarding salvation, I feel very unworthy ofcourse because I am but also feel guilt because sometimes I meet people who are not believers who are in all probability "better" people than I am.
I just wonder how I could be loved and they could not be.
Yet I am certain God has saved me.
Here is an issue I wrestle with.
long ago I was in a car wreck and two friends were killed and another crippled.
Unexplainably I lived and was not crippled.
I remember as a teenager having pretty severe 'survivors' guilt.
Likewise regarding salvation, I feel very unworthy ofcourse because I am but also feel guilt because sometimes I meet people who are not believers who are in all probability "better" people than I am.
I just wonder how I could be loved and they could not be.
JOwen
Puritan Board Junior
John Calvin says on
I see here in Calvin a discriminating love that is not salvific for the reprobate. It is a lesser love than the love for the elect, and would seem to terminate upon the temporal object of wrath. Calvin indicates that this is not an ardent and eternal love for those who are not elect, but a temporal condescending love found in His own (albeit marred) image in them. It is a love nonetheless.
Mark 10:21 ~Jesus beholding him, loved him.~
The inference which the Papists draw from this, that works morally good — that is, works which are not performed by the impulse of the Spirit, but go before regeneration — have the merit of congruity, is an excessively childish contrivance. For if merit be alleged to be the consequence of the love of God, we must then say that frogs and fleas have merit, because all the creatures of God, without exception, are the objects of his love. To distinguish the degrees of love is, therefore, a matter of importance. As to the present passage, it may be enough to state briefly, that God embraces in fatherly love none but his children, whom he has regenerated with the Spirit of adoption, and that it is in consequence of this love that they are accepted at his tribunal. In this sense, to be loved by God, and to be justified in his sight, are synonymous terms.
But God is sometimes said to love those whom he does not approve or justify; for, since the preservation of the human race is agreeable to Him — which consists in justice, uprightness, moderation, prudence, fidelity, and temperance — he is said to love the political virtues; not that they are meritorious of salvation or of grace, but that they have reference to an end of which he approves. In this sense, under various points of view, God loved Aristides and Fabricius, and also hated them; for, in so far as he had bestowed on them outward righteousness, and that for the general advantage, he loved his own work in them; but as their heart was impure, the outward semblance of righteousness was of no avail for obtaining righteousness. For we know that by faith alone hearts are purified, and that the Spirit of uprightness is given to the members of Christ alone. Thus the question is answered, How was it possible that Christ should love a man who was proud and a hypocrite, while nothing is more hateful to God than these two vices? For it is not inconsistent, that the good seed, which God has implanted in some natures, shall be loved by Him, and yet that He should reject their persons and works on account of corruption (Calvin's Commentary on the harmny of the Gospel. Vol. 2. p.297).
The inference which the Papists draw from this, that works morally good — that is, works which are not performed by the impulse of the Spirit, but go before regeneration — have the merit of congruity, is an excessively childish contrivance. For if merit be alleged to be the consequence of the love of God, we must then say that frogs and fleas have merit, because all the creatures of God, without exception, are the objects of his love. To distinguish the degrees of love is, therefore, a matter of importance. As to the present passage, it may be enough to state briefly, that God embraces in fatherly love none but his children, whom he has regenerated with the Spirit of adoption, and that it is in consequence of this love that they are accepted at his tribunal. In this sense, to be loved by God, and to be justified in his sight, are synonymous terms.
But God is sometimes said to love those whom he does not approve or justify; for, since the preservation of the human race is agreeable to Him — which consists in justice, uprightness, moderation, prudence, fidelity, and temperance — he is said to love the political virtues; not that they are meritorious of salvation or of grace, but that they have reference to an end of which he approves. In this sense, under various points of view, God loved Aristides and Fabricius, and also hated them; for, in so far as he had bestowed on them outward righteousness, and that for the general advantage, he loved his own work in them; but as their heart was impure, the outward semblance of righteousness was of no avail for obtaining righteousness. For we know that by faith alone hearts are purified, and that the Spirit of uprightness is given to the members of Christ alone. Thus the question is answered, How was it possible that Christ should love a man who was proud and a hypocrite, while nothing is more hateful to God than these two vices? For it is not inconsistent, that the good seed, which God has implanted in some natures, shall be loved by Him, and yet that He should reject their persons and works on account of corruption (Calvin's Commentary on the harmny of the Gospel. Vol. 2. p.297).
I see here in Calvin a discriminating love that is not salvific for the reprobate. It is a lesser love than the love for the elect, and would seem to terminate upon the temporal object of wrath. Calvin indicates that this is not an ardent and eternal love for those who are not elect, but a temporal condescending love found in His own (albeit marred) image in them. It is a love nonetheless.
caddy
Puritan Board Senior
BertMulder
Puritan Board Junior
Thus we may say that God is good to everyone, in His providence. However, God is not gracious to everyone. The concept of a common 'grace' is thus a fallacy.
But we must love our neighbour, and bring them the Gospel, also those whom God never loved.
God doesn't LOVE anyone because of who they are in themselves. Only for the way he chooses to see them himself, and according to the counsel of his exclusive will.
Its grace that God gives, and the more undeserving the person, the more magnified that grace is in them, relative to its display in a person of more "goodness." That is the lesson of 1 Cor. 1:26. It was this verse that caused the Countess of Huntington to exclaim: "Thank God for the letter 'm'!"
God displays a general benevolence toward men-made-in-his-image, on account of what remains of what he himself put there. It pertains to HIM, therefore, they having it, he loves them, as the Scriptures say. But that is not the same thing as loving a man in the Lord Jesus Christ. In that case, the man is loved as Christ, the image of God, is seen in him. And that is a saving love, a covenant love through which God does not look on the generality of the human race. But only on his elect.
You should be thankful to God you feel the "guilt" you feel. That you feel so "unworthy." It shows you know you are a sinner in need of grace. It is part of what God uses to spur his own people to true deeds of piety and mercy.
The ones you know, who are "better" human beings than you--better in works, in benevolence, in altruism, or more shallowly in looks, charisma, and money, just to name a few--what does it profit them to gain the whole world, and lose their own soul? Their goodness is compared to what? Only to Christ, not to you. And they cannot compare to the goodness of Christ, which is that in which God has clothed unworthy-you. Their goodness is no less filthy rags than yours, and the worse if they sought a seat at the banquet without the king's robe.
God does not love men for who they are, no matter their goodness, their piety, their benevolence, their charity, their service, their martydom--NOTHING. He loves his own work in them, at best. {edit--I see I have unwittingly aped Calvin by my language, and given no credit. Thank you, Jerrold.} And he judges them for their pride and ruin of it.
P.S. Bert,
I'm not even going to start a terminology war. You are welcome to reserve your "grace." I'm not in that fight. Peace.
Its grace that God gives, and the more undeserving the person, the more magnified that grace is in them, relative to its display in a person of more "goodness." That is the lesson of 1 Cor. 1:26. It was this verse that caused the Countess of Huntington to exclaim: "Thank God for the letter 'm'!"
God displays a general benevolence toward men-made-in-his-image, on account of what remains of what he himself put there. It pertains to HIM, therefore, they having it, he loves them, as the Scriptures say. But that is not the same thing as loving a man in the Lord Jesus Christ. In that case, the man is loved as Christ, the image of God, is seen in him. And that is a saving love, a covenant love through which God does not look on the generality of the human race. But only on his elect.
You should be thankful to God you feel the "guilt" you feel. That you feel so "unworthy." It shows you know you are a sinner in need of grace. It is part of what God uses to spur his own people to true deeds of piety and mercy.
The ones you know, who are "better" human beings than you--better in works, in benevolence, in altruism, or more shallowly in looks, charisma, and money, just to name a few--what does it profit them to gain the whole world, and lose their own soul? Their goodness is compared to what? Only to Christ, not to you. And they cannot compare to the goodness of Christ, which is that in which God has clothed unworthy-you. Their goodness is no less filthy rags than yours, and the worse if they sought a seat at the banquet without the king's robe.
God does not love men for who they are, no matter their goodness, their piety, their benevolence, their charity, their service, their martydom--NOTHING. He loves his own work in them, at best. {edit--I see I have unwittingly aped Calvin by my language, and given no credit. Thank you, Jerrold.} And he judges them for their pride and ruin of it.
P.S. Bert,
I'm not even going to start a terminology war. You are welcome to reserve your "grace." I'm not in that fight. Peace.
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BertMulder
Puritan Board Junior
I have no quarrel with you, Reverend.
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