Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
Absolutely!
Doug Wilson
- Thread starter WrittenFromUtopia
- Start date
- Status
Absolutely!
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
Thank You Scott
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
Well, the usuall dodge there (i don't think he's said it, but folks like Mark Horne and others in his camp use it) is that the TFU don't address the issue. As a result, they say, the TFU and paedocommunion are ok together. Of course I accept that dodge as far as I can throw Mr. Wilson
Todd
[Edited on 7-30-2005 by toddpedlar]
Originally posted by toddpedlar
Well, the usuall dodge there (i don't think he's said it, but folks like Mark Horne and others in his camp use it) is that the TFU don't address the issue. As a result, they say, the TFU and paedocommunion are ok together. Of course I accept that dodge as far as I can throw Mr. Wilson
Todd
Exactly!
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Originally posted by toddpedlar
Well, the usuall dodge there (i don't think he's said it, but folks like Mark Horne and others in his camp use it) is that the TFU don't address the issue. As a result, they say, the TFU and paedocommunion are ok together. Of course I accept that dodge as far as I can throw Mr. Wilson
Todd
[Edited on 7-30-2005 by toddpedlar]
Too bad Ursinus, in his commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism, rejects paedocommunion.
Too bad the URCNA rejected paedocommunion as being compatible with the TFU:
Overture: The Consistory of The Orthodox Reformed Church of Edmonton requests Classis Western Canada 2003 (Salem) to clarify the status and function of the decision of Classis 2000 (Lynden) that "œThe Confessions exclude non-professing members from participating in the Lord's Supper."
Grounds:
1. The unity of our churches in the faith requires agreement as to the proper recipients of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper.
2. The meaning of subscription to our Confessions may be jeopardized if differing interpretations of those Confessions are allowable on such important matters.
3. Adhering to our Church Order regarding the settled and binding nature of the decisions of broader assemblies (Article 29) is also at issue here.
4. Christian integrity and fairness requires consistency in the application of the Classis 2000 decision as it relates to currently serving and retired officebearers as well as to candidates to the ministry.
Motion: to adopt the Overture of The Orthodox Reformed Church of Edmonton
Motion: call for the question - PASSED
Motion: to adopt PASSED
Motion: that the following statement be received as a response of clarification.
"œThis decision is not an "˜extra-confessional´ statement that somehow has special status along side of our Confessions. It is rather an affirmation of the Confessions themselves on a specific point of their teaching. Therefore, agreement with this teaching of our Confessions as
recognized and affirmed by classis has a direct bearing on Confessional Subscription. Any candidates or officebearers who cannot affirm what classis has affirmed regarding the Confessions on this point cannot properly subscribe to the Three Forms of Unity."
Motion: to table that copies of this statement be made available for further review DEFEATED
Motion: to adopt this statement PASSED
http://www.covenant-urc.org/urcna/SynodMinutes05.pdf
Too bad the RCUS did the same:
http://www.rcus.org/main/pub_infant_communion.asp
Too bad no confessional Reformed denomination practices or urges anyone to practice it (except RCA and CRC which already have problems and are not, In my humble opinion, confessional or Reformed).
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
Thanks for the pointers to the documents, Daniel. Regardless of the strong witness against it in present day continental reformed churches as well as in their infancy (no pun intended), etc., etc., some still maintain that the "bias against paedocommunion" is a Puritan (i.e. English/Scot) invention, and that the contintental reformers would support it, even if it wasn't in vogue.
Hogwash! (and I can use that term with some authority now that I live in Iowa
)
Todd
Hogwash! (and I can use that term with some authority now that I live in Iowa
)Todd
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Originally posted by toddpedlar
Thanks for the pointers to the documents, Daniel. Regardless of the strong witness against it in present day continental reformed churches as well as in their infancy (no pun intended), etc., etc., some still maintain that the "bias against paedocommunion" is a Puritan (i.e. English/Scot) invention, and that the contintental reformers would support it, even if it wasn't in vogue.
Hogwash! (and I can use that term with some authority now that I live in Iowa
Todd
"If these men had a particle of sound brain left, would they be blind to a thing so clear and obvious?"
-John Calvin, "Institutes" 4.16.30
Taken out of context, but applicable nonetheless.
Like Clark Pinnock, Doug Wilson is a wandering star... and believes faith must be "faithful" --- he also takes pleasure in being more than a little lead-footed on the law. Though he has been met by the highest leaders in the Reformed denomination, he is content to reject the invitation to embrace the 3 Forms and prefers self-appointment to biblical ordination.
Read Wilson's own words: "Reformed is not Enough"
Matt has done a review of same:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/BookReviews/Sourpuss/WilsonDouglasReformedNotEnough.htm
Plus, here is a transcript from a ACE conference by Rev. Richard Phillips. Canon press is currently publishing works to recast the covenant by new understandings of the Trinity.
Yipeee - see what is possible when you measure yourself by yourself; own your own publishing company; found your own church & denomination and are preaching the ever-popular message of good works, virtue, family and country?
http://www.alliancenet.org/CC/CDA/Content_Blocks/CC_Printer_Friendly_Version_Utility/1
Horton's dicussion with Wilson:
http://www.stannespub.com/Special Edition.asp
Westminster Seminary, California is about to publish a book from their conference on FV - Wilson is on the list.
But...go ahead, don't believe it....Doug Wilson is such a N I C E guy! Personality plus! A wonderful teacher, family advocate and all-around clever apologist! That's exactly what Paul was! An apostle who was clever, attractive, popular --- a maverick, re-working ideas about the covenant, justification, the Trinity, not fussing with accountability to the other Apostles -- heck, he had a unique mission!
Oops....those links aren't very good, anyway. After all, I'm just playing "link-tag" to show-off
Robin
Matt....
ChristianTrader
Puritan Board Graduate
Two points,
1) So I guess you will be removing Wilson's books from your library list on apuritansmind?
2) If you are close enough to a person to recommend a book, how can you not be close enough to warn them against reading other works by that author?
CT
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
I forgot I had them listed. I'll have to update it. (updated)
I agree with #2. We should do both. But we ask - are there any good books out there on marriage where we are left to only recommend Wilson or others (for example)? Why recommend him when we don't need to either?
[Edited on 7-31-2005 by webmaster]
openairboy
Puritan Board Freshman
Don't confuse us with the facts. "People" have said he doesn't believe in justification by faith alone, so it doesn't matter what he has said.
openairboy
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
{MODERATOR} THIS IS A WARNING: This board does not approve of Wilson's statements, email correspondence on the subject with opponents of the FV, or books with his deviant views of corporate justification sin. It does matter what he has said. He has written it down:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/BookReviews/Sourpuss/WilsonDouglasReformedNotEnough.htm
Anyone defending him again will have their posting privileges REMOVED.
openairboy
Puritan Board Freshman
May I ask, where is the defense of him? If you care to remove me, that is fine (it is your board), but I am curious where any defense of him has occured?
openairboy
openairboy
Puritan Board Freshman
Is it available on-line?
openairboy
C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
"Don't confuse us with the facts. "People" have said he doesn't believe in justification by faith alone, so it doesn't matter what he has said."
This is argumentative for Wilson, not agreeing that we should see him as a false teacher. Its more than simply stating an assertion.
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Assessor
Originally posted by Robin
Like Clark Pinnock, Doug Wilson is a wandering star... and believes faith must be "faithful" --- he also takes pleasure in being more than a little lead-footed on the law. Though he has been met by the highest leaders in the Reformed denomination, he is content to reject the invitation to embrace the 3 Forms and prefers self-appointment to biblical ordination.
Read Wilson's own words: "Reformed is not Enough"
Matt has done a review of same:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/BookReviews/Sourpuss/WilsonDouglasReformedNotEnough.htm
Plus, here is a transcript from a ACE conference by Rev. Richard Phillips. Canon press is currently publishing works to recast the covenant by new understandings of the Trinity.
Yipeee - see what is possible when you measure yourself by yourself; own your own publishing company; found your own church & denomination and are preaching the ever-popular message of good works, virtue, family and country?
http://www.alliancenet.org/CC/CDA/Content_Blocks/CC_Printer_Friendly_Version_Utility/1
Horton's dicussion with Wilson:
http://www.stannespub.com/Special Edition.asp
Westminster Seminary, California is about to publish a book from their conference on FV - Wilson is on the list.
But...go ahead, don't believe it....Doug Wilson is such a N I C E guy! Personality plus! A wonderful teacher, family advocate and all-around clever apologist! That's exactly what Paul was! An apostle who was clever, attractive, popular --- a maverick, re-working ideas about the covenant, justification, the Trinity, not fussing with accountability to the other Apostles -- heck, he had a unique mission!
Oops....those links aren't very good, anyway. After all, I'm just playing "link-tag" to show-off
Robin
With all due respect but, the relevance? You gave me a lot of information that is probably helpful, had I asked a question on that topic. Rather, all I stated--and this is what you replied to--was that Doug Wilson has a good critique of NT Wright. I did not defend en toto Wilson's beliefs. Your response would be quite valid if I had done that. Rather, I pointed out--rather uncontroversially--that here is a good critique of NPP that would be helpful in debattes.
Also, and this is a general rule that I employ on all message boards: I almost never read links people give me. I am interested in what the person says, not in footnote refutation. Again, this applies to those in my own camp as well.
[Edited on 8--1-05 by Draught Horse]
Maybe I am misunderstanding, if so i definetly want to get a grasp on all of this before I get banned, please be patient with me.
Children that are baptized into the covenant are Christians in the objective sense, not in the elect, invisble church sense; correct?
Or am i misunderstanding something?
Children that are baptized into the covenant are Christians in the objective sense, not in the elect, invisble church sense; correct?
Or am i misunderstanding something?
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
It depends how you define Christian, doesn't it? I haven't known any other sense than this:
Heidelberg Catechism
Q32: But why are you called a Christian?
A32: Because by faith I am a member of Christ [1] and thus a partaker of His anointing,[2] in order that I also may confess His Name,[3] may present myself a living sacrifice of thankfulness to Him,[4] and with a free conscience may fight against sin and the devil in this life,[5] and hereafter in eternity reign with Him over all creatures.[6]
1. Acts 11:26; I John 2:20, 27
2. Acts 2:17
3. Mark 8:38
4. Rom. 12:1; Rev. 5:8, 10; I Peter 2:9; Rev. 1:6
5. I Tim. 1:18-19
6. II Tim. 2:12; Eph. 6:12; Rev. 3:21
So yes, you may define a Christian as one who has been baptized and thus one who is member of a covenant community, but then we have to think about the ramifications of that.
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
LadyCalvinist
Puritan Board Junior
Could someone help me out here? Since 1994 I have been getting Credenda/Agenda. At first I thought it was great and that Doug Wilson was one of the smartest, coolest guys in the church. Gradually I became aware that something was wrong, though I didn't understand quite what. Could someone tell me exactly when Doug Wilson went wrong? Should I throw out all old issues of Credenda or just those after a certain date (say everything after 02) or just recent issues that deal with theology.
Thanks.
Thanks.
mybigGod
Puritan Board Freshman
Preaching justification by faith and the merit of Christ as it relates to our works as believers is the heart of the motivation to love Christ. When do you here that our obedience is a corrupted obedience and so we need the merits of Christ obedience for us to be accepted by the Father?
This historical message has been hidden so much in the modern day message that focuses on a christains faithfulness. That focus certianly extenquishes fire of grace in a person and dampens that motive of love to Christ.
This historical message has been hidden so much in the modern day message that focuses on a christains faithfulness. That focus certianly extenquishes fire of grace in a person and dampens that motive of love to Christ.
Doug is reacting to a very real concern in the Church (and culture): moral decline.
However, his insistence that the Christian is given grace but then "proves" their assurance by the "faithfulness of faith" puts him back in Rome. Jesus is now an example; for even Jesus needed faith.
Listeninig to Wilson's teachings will eventually lead to despair or self-righteousness--- worse case, false-hope in works.
Beware the leaven of the pharisees.
Robin
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