Dutch "Covenanter"-Like Denominations

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Sam Jer

Puritan Board Junior
Hello,

Which Dutch denominations today would be the closest to what is often seen as "Covenanter" distinctives? I do not mean the historical movement in the 17th century, but rather what i came to mean: things like experimental preaching, opposition to manmade hymns / instruments / pretended holidays, very conservative views on family structure, a high (but non-Erastian) view of the civil magistrate's role in religion, the free call of the gospel, headcoverings, optimistic eschatology, pope=antichrist, etc (similar to confessional Reformed Presbyterians, PRC, FCC, FPCS etc; or to the original Westminster Confession and Directory of Worship).

And I do realise this is a rather extensive and at places very granular set of distinctives, I mean general proximity to this sort of Presbyterianism, not necessarily conformity on every minute point of this.
And when I say Dutch, I chiefly refer to a denomination being located in the Netherlands, not merely Dutch roots or culture.
 
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(Oud) Gereformeerde Gemeenten (in Nederland)
Is that one denomination or several? Are there any significant diffrences between them and the denominations I listed, other than expected ones like language, confession, tunes used in psalmody etc?

What more can be said about it?
 
De Gereformeerde Gemeenten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformed_Congregations) were a number of reformed churches organized as a denomination by Rev. Kersten (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrit_Hendrik_Kersten), from the largely independent 'churches under the cross' which were those churches from the 'Afscheiding' (Secession) that did not go with the 'Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerk' (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christelijke_Gereformeerde_Kerken) in 1869, as the condition for those churches and denomination was asking permission from the government to be allwoed to function as churches. The 'churches under the cross' denied that the government had any say over who was allowed to organize as a church.

The 'Oud Gereformeerde Gemeenten' are largely those 'churches under the cross' that did not go with Kersten, but later also organized as a denomination.
The 'Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland' (GGinN0 are a denomination that split from the Gereformeerde Gemeenten in 1953 over the question of the offer of grace, which the GGinN denied.

A little Dutch church denominational history:

Originally, from the reformation there were the 'Gereformeerde Kerken (not to be confused with the 'Gereformeerde Kerken' from Kuyper). These were renamed by King Willem I in 1816 as the 'Nederlands Hervormde Kerk (NHK)
1619 - Remonstrantse Broederschap (the Arminians)
1834 - the Afscheiding (originally named 'Gereformeerde Kerken, which soon split into'Christelijk Afgescheiden Gemeenten' (CAG) and ''Gereformeerde Kerken onder het Kruis'(GKoK), over the issue of recognition by the government.
1841 - a number of churches seceded from the NHK under the leadership of Ledeboer, known as the 'Ledeboeriaanse Gemeenten' (LG)
1869 - the CAG united with most of the GKok to form the 'Christelijk Gereformeerde Kerken' (CGK)
1886 - Doleantie - under the leadership of Abraham Kuyper the 'Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerken' (NGK) was formed from a umber of churches that left the NHK.
1892 - The 'Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland (GKN) was formed by the union of most of the CGK and the NGK.
1907 - Kersten united most of the GKoK and LG united as the 'Gereformeerde Gemeenten'
1907 - those LG that did not united with the GG were know as the Oud Gereformeerde Gemeenten or the Boone-gemeenten (OGG)
1922 - a number of the GKoK associated loosely as 'Federatie van Oud Gereformeerde Gemeenten' (FOGG)
1944 - under the leadership of Schilder a number churches left the GKN to form the 'Gereformeerde Kerken Vrijgemaakt' (GKV)
1948 - fusion of the FOGG and the OGG, known as the Oud Gereformeerde Gemeentn in Nederland (OGGiN)
1953 - Under the leadership of Steenblok, the was a split in the GG, and 'Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland (GGinN) was formed.
1967 - A split in the GKV and the 'Nederlands Gereformeerde Kerken' (NGK) is formed.
1980 - A split from the GGiN and the formation of the 'Gereformeerde Gemeenten (buiten verband' (GGiNbv) (since has ceased to exist except for one church)
2003 - A split in the GKV and the 'Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland (hersteld) GKNh is formed
2004 - The 'Protestantse Kerk in Nederland' (PKN) is formed from most of the NHK, GKN and the "Evangelisch-Lutherse Kerk in het Koninkrijk der Nederlanden' 'Samen op Weg' (together on the way)
2004 - The 'Hersteld Hervormde Kerk' (HHK) is formed from the NHK churches that did not go with the 'Samen op Weg' union.
2004 - The 'Voortgezette Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland' (VGKN) is formed from the GKN churches that did not go with the 'Samen op Weg' union.
2009 - The new 'Gereformeerde Kerken in Nederland (DGK) is formed from some of the GKNh and some of the GKV.
2023 - A new denomination, the Nederlandse Gereformeerde Kerken is formed from the union of the GKV and the NGK
2024 - The 'Gereformeerde Kerken' is formed from a fusion of the DGK and GKN

Am sure this information is not complete, and I have (purposely) not included the reasons and therefors. Feel free to add to this...
 
Is that one denomination or several? Are there any significant diffrences between them and the denominations I listed, other than expected ones like language, confession, tunes used in psalmody etc?

What more can be said about it?

The "Old Reformed Congregations" are a group that is a step more conservative than the Gerefomeerde Gemeenten in Nederland, which is the Dutch "mother church" of the Netherlands Reformed Congregations, the group in the US and Canada that deposed Dr. Joel Beeke. The "Oud Gereformeerden" have a small sister-church known as the Reformed Congregations in North America.

Elder Bert Mulder has given a good summary of the timelines and the splits.

Let's just say that anyone more conservative than Kersten (the founder of the Gereformeerde Gemeenten) has to be REALLY conservative. And note that these groups are several steps to the right of Dr. Beeke, who most of their members and leaders would view with at least some level of suspicion.

Dr. Beeke is pretty well known in North American Calvinist circles and it says a lot to say that a group of churches believed he was not conservative enough and deposed him from the ministry.

Full disclosure: I reported on his deposition back in the 1990s and attended the Netherlands Reformed synod in the early stages of that process before they decided those who were not members of the denomination should not be allowed in the room. My appreciation for Dr. Beeke is well known, and on this forum, should not be controversial.
 
Which Dutch denominations today would be the closest to what is often seen as "Covenanter" distinctives? I do not mean the historical movement in the 17th century, but rather what i came to mean: things like experimental preaching, opposition to manmade hymns / instruments / pretended holidays, very conservative views on family structure, a high (but non-Erastian) view of the civil magistrate's role in religion, the free call of the gospel, headcoverings, optimistic eschatology, pope=antichrist, etc (similar to confessional Reformed Presbyterians, PRC, FCC, FPCS etc; or to the original Westminster Confession and Directory of Worship).
The Free Reformed Churches of North America (FRCNA) and the Heritage Reformed Congregations (HRC) would fit most (although not all) of this description. It is also an interesting trend to observe that transplanted immigrant churches tend to be more conservative than their mother denominations. This is at least the case when one compares the Christelijke Gereformeerde Kerken (CGK) with their younger sister, the FRCNA.

Both the FRC and HRC are firmly committed to experimental/experiential preaching and the free, well-meant offer. They maintain the practice of "evangelical holy days" and have either organ or piano accompaniment to the psalms. Headcoverings are present in both denominations to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the congregation -- though I would say it is more common for women to cover in the HRC. Optimistic amillennialism would be the most common eschatological view in these circles, with many ministers holding to the "Puritan hope." The Papal Antichrist and establishmentarianism are "on the books," in that they can be deduced from the Belgic Confession, but they are rarely taught or spoken about in my experience.

On the whole these are godly, faithful denominations for anyone to consider. Although I am confessionally Scottish Presbyterian, I have greatly enjoyed worshipping with the FRC, and have met many others of a "covenantor" bent in these circles.
 
The "Old Reformed Congregations" are a group that is a step more conservative than the Gerefomeerde Gemeenten in Nederland, which is the Dutch "mother church" of the Netherlands Reformed Congregations, the group in the US and Canada that deposed Dr. Joel Beeke. The "Oud Gereformeerden" have a small sister-church known as the Reformed Congregations in North America.
Thanks for your kind comments, Darrell, but one correction to your comment... The Gereformeerde Gemeenten in Nederland are the sister church of the Reformed Congregations in North America, whereas the Gereformeerde Gemeenten are the sister church of the Netherlands Reformed Congregations.

As a first generation Dutch immigrant, my original church home was the Gereformeerde Gemeente in Nederland (Veenendaal), and then in Canada the Reformed Congregation of North America in Monarch, Alberta. I have much family in the GG, GGiN, Reformed Congregations and Netherlands Reformed. Also have a son that is a pastor in the Reformed Presbyterian Church.
 
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The Free Reformed Churches of North America (FRCNA) and the Heritage Reformed Congregations (HRC) would fit most (although not all) of this description. It is also an interesting trend to observe that transplanted immigrant churches tend to be more conservative than their mother denominations. This is at least the case when one compares the Christelijke Gereformeerde Kerken (CGK) with their younger sister, the FRCNA.

Both the FRC and HRC are firmly committed to experimental/experiential preaching and the free, well-meant offer. They maintain the practice of "evangelical holy days" and have either organ or piano accompaniment to the psalms. Headcoverings are present in both denominations to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the congregation -- though I would say it is more common for women to cover in the HRC. Optimistic amillennialism would be the most common eschatological view in these circles, with many ministers holding to the "Puritan hope." The Papal Antichrist and establishmentarianism are "on the books," in that they can be deduced from the Belgic Confession, but they are rarely taught or spoken about in my experience.

On the whole these are godly, faithful denominations for anyone to consider. Although I am confessionally Scottish Presbyterian, I have greatly enjoyed worshipping with the FRC, and have met many others of a "covenantor" bent in these circles.
What historically set the GG apart from the CGK is that the GG held to a 2 covenant view, whereas the CGK held to a 3 covenant view....
 
What historically set the GG apart from the CGK is that the GG held to a 2 covenant view, whereas the CGK held to a 3 covenant view....
What is this about? What is a 2 covenant / 3 covenant view? Which covenant is in question?

Let's just say that anyone more conservative than Kersten (the founder of the Gereformeerde Gemeenten) has to be REALLY conservative.
Why is that? Is there anywhere where I can read about this man without having to learn Dutch first?

The "Old Reformed Congregations" are a group that is a step more conservative than the Gerefomeerde Gemeenten in Nederland, which is the Dutch "mother church" of the Netherlands Reformed Congregations, the group in the US and Canada that deposed Dr. Joel Beeke. The "Oud Gereformeerden" have a small sister-church known as the Reformed Congregations in North America.

Elder Bert Mulder has given a good summary of the timelines and the splits.

Let's just say that anyone more conservative than Kersten (the founder of the Gereformeerde Gemeenten) has to be REALLY conservative. And note that these groups are several steps to the right of Dr. Beeke, who most of their members and leaders would view with at least some level of suspicion.

Dr. Beeke is pretty well known in North American Calvinist circles and it says a lot to say that a group of churches believed he was not conservative enough and deposed him from the ministry.

Full disclosure: I reported on his deposition back in the 1990s and attended the Netherlands Reformed synod in the early stages of that process before they decided those who were not members of the denomination should not be allowed in the room. My appreciation for Dr. Beeke is well known, and on this forum, should not be controversial.
I am not sure it is wise to make a single dicipline case, even if it involves a giant like Beeke, the lense through which we jufge three entire denominations. Are you bringing this up because you think it is illustrative if a larger issue in Dutch Calvinism or this subset of it? If so, can you be more specific than "too conservative"? Or just because for most on the puritanboard this is the most familiar name that has something to do with these groups?

The Free Reformed Churches of North America (FRCNA) and the Heritage Reformed Congregations (HRC) would fit most (although not all) of this description. It is also an interesting trend to observe that transplanted immigrant churches tend to be more conservative than their mother denominations. This is at least the case when one compares the Christelijke Gereformeerde Kerken (CGK) with their younger sister, the FRCNA.

Both the FRC and HRC are firmly committed to experimental/experiential preaching and the free, well-meant offer. They maintain the practice of "evangelical holy days" and have either organ or piano accompaniment to the psalms. Headcoverings are present in both denominations to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the congregation -- though I would say it is more common for women to cover in the HRC. Optimistic amillennialism would be the most common eschatological view in these circles, with many ministers holding to the "Puritan hope." The Papal Antichrist and establishmentarianism are "on the books," in that they can be deduced from the Belgic Confession, but they are rarely taught or spoken about in my experience.

On the whole these are godly, faithful denominations for anyone to consider. Although I am confessionally Scottish Presbyterian, I have greatly enjoyed worshipping with the FRC, and have met many others of a "covenantor" bent in these circles.
I am actually mostly interested in the mother denominations in Europe for this post, but thank you for the information.
 
As to an explanation of the 2 covenant vs the 3 covenant view, I would direct you to Kersten's Reformed Dogmatics. RHB used to sell it, but it seems to be out of print.

Am open to correction on this, but from memory the essential difference is that the 2 covenant view views the Covenant of Grace as essentially the same as the Covenant of Redemption. In the 3 covenant view, the Covenant of Redemption is distinct, where God the Father covenants with the Son for the redemption of mankind, where it allows for hypothetical universalism.
 
I am actually mostly interested in the mother denominations in Europe for this post, but thank you for the information.
Understood. I would still say that the CGK fits the bill, with the understanding that there is a difference between Dutch three covenant theology and Scottish two covenant theology (as our brother above points out).
 
Understood. I would still say that the CGK fits the bill, with the understanding that there is a difference between Dutch three covenant theology and Scottish two covenant theology (as our brother above points out).
It was earlier noted by Darrell that in general the North American sister churches are more conservative than the Dutch churches. As to the CGK, they are currently in self destruct mode, as many churches are no longer heeding the decisions of its Synod. It is largely over the issues of women in office and also over human sexuality. If you can read Dutch, check this out: https://www.refoforum.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15548

How does PRTS deal with the historic 2 and 3 covenant issue, as HRC historically s 2 covenant, whereas FRCN is 3 covenant?
 
As to the (O)GG(iN), while its strength lies in its general piety and conservatism, the inbred knowledge to live a reformed lifestyle, it has a few great weaknesses:
1. it allows those that say of themselves that they are unregenerate to make confession of faith, and as such to also baptize their children, while at the same time barring them from the Lord's table. This creates a separation between the sacraments.
2. while it highly values that you must be born again, in order for you to be recognized as regenerate, you have to have a solid 'conversion experience' that you have to be able to describe in detail. While it may not be true that you need to have a 'second blessing', it does seem to encroach on that territory.
3. the above 2 points have created congregations that have become very legalistic, majoring on minors such as women wearing pants, where miniskirts seem to be the norm, having a TV being censurable, etc. This has also made it so that many of the young people (and they have since grown up) go through the motions, where religion is for Sunday, and the rest of the week if for themselves, and the Bible is rarely cracked open, except for in church (if there they follow along). You have large congregations, with only a handful going to the Lord's table...
 
It was earlier noted by Darrell that in general the North American sister churches are more conservative than the Dutch churches. As to the CGK, they are currently in self destruct mode, as many churches are no longer heeding the decisions of its Synod. It is largely over the issues of women in office and also over human sexuality. If you can read Dutch, check this out: https://www.refoforum.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15548

How does PRTS deal with the historic 2 and 3 covenant issue, as HRC historically s 2 covenant, whereas FRCN is 3 covenant?
Yes, I am sadly aware of the recent controversy in the CGK. Of the 180 congregations, I've been told it's about a 60/40 split on this issue -- though I could be wrong. Did the CGK set a date to convene their next synod? Or are they in a synodical limbo of sorts?

How does PRTS deal with the historic 2 and 3 covenant issue, as HRC historically s 2 covenant, whereas FRCN is 3 covenant?
Both views are presented in systematic, historical theology, and homiletical courses, but with a noticeable preference toward the two-covenant view. Two courses are offered on the history and theology of the 1834 Secession. This past summer a new elective course was offered on "covenantal Preaching in the Dutch Secession Tradition" which covered the three covenant view in-depth with particular application to homiletics.
 
Yes, I am sadly aware of the recent controversy in the CGK. Of the 180 congregations, I've been told it's about a 60/40 split on this issue -- though I could be wrong. Did the CGK set a date to convene their next synod? Or are they in a synodical limbo of sorts?
they are in limbo, and no new calling church has been appointed, with no prospect for another synod at this time...
 
Oh boy, am I about to get myself into a wild mess here!

I am not sure it is wise to make a single dicipline case, even if it involves a giant like Beeke, the lense through which we jufge three entire denominations. Are you bringing this up because you think it is illustrative if a larger issue in Dutch Calvinism or this subset of it? If so, can you be more specific than "too conservative"? Or just because for most on the puritanboard this is the most familiar name that has something to do with these groups?

Basically all of the above! For better or worse, most but not all of the major Dutch Reformed secessions and denominational foundings were closely identified with key individuals. Ledeboer, Kuyper, Kersten, Hoeksema, Schilder, and Beeke all differ in many ways, but their denominations took on key aspects of their life and ministry. That is in some ways good and others not. It's not like the OPC where Machen was a huge influence but his death led to multiple splinterings, and the modern OPC has numerous sources of its key principles, or like the URC where there were easily a dozen key leaders of the secession, and then the people came in associated with Westminster Seminary in California who brought a different approach from that of the earlier seceders.

The Beeke situation is very complicated and anything I write is guaranteed to get pushback if I post it here because it needs to be twenty or fifty pages with a ton of footnotes to be complete, but this will likely be enough for your purposes. Suffice it to say that the two key underlying issues in the Beeke controversy were the free offer of the gospel and whether a minister with a legitimate biblical divorce can remarry and remain a minister. Officially, the NRC synod said "yes" to both. But a lot of people remained seriously unhappy and that put Beeke in the crosshairs. And yes, I say that with bias toward Beeke because I believe he was right, after reading huge amounts of stuff and probably digging into the case more than anyone who wasn't on the synodical investigative committee or Beeke's own consistory. I believe Beeke was abused and is a godly man who was patient beyond what anyone should have to tolerate. Others disagree, and that is what caused the division in the NRC.

Why is that? Is there anywhere where I can read about this man without having to learn Dutch first?

The simple answer is I can send you to Google to look up GH Kersten and the Gereformeerde Gemeenten and his role as a member of the Dutch Parliament in attacking Abraham Kuyper's view on civil cooperation with Roman Catholics, and before that, to Mulder's timeline on how Kersten unified several "Dutch Puritan" groups into the Gereformeerde Gemeenten as a denomination. You'll get some formal answers. Also, a book of his Heidelberg Catechism sermons has been translated into English. That will give you a good sense of his theology of the need for a deep personal conviction of sin.

However, to TRULY understand the Dutch at a deep level, you must not only learn Dutch, but live among the Dutch, to know what "lives" in the churches. With the smaller denominations, there are not many (if any) books written in or translated into English and that's a real problem.

I have an undergraduate degree in theology from Calvin College. I spent three years at Calvin Seminary before dropping out, due largely to extreme frustration. I spent ten years of my life working for Christian Renewal magazine, which was at that time the main conservative news organization reporting on the CRC and the people seceding from it. During that period I reported not only on the CRC and RCA and the URC (as it developed) but also attended almost every OPC General Assembly and NAPARC meeting, and covered the NRC synod that deposed Dr. Beeke, and reported on the beginning of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary.

Even all that is not really "enough" because I can't read Dutch and that cuts me off from key things I should know, and forces me to rely on secondary sources, with their inherent biases, rather than being able to read primary source documents.

Things are a little different now that the "older generation" has passed which was still fluent in Dutch and regularly read Dutch theology and maintained contact with immediate family in the Netherlands, but you'd have to actually live in Grand Rapids, or Northwest Iowa, or certain other key places, to really understand the culture.

You live in Israel. I assume you speak fluent Hebrew. Ask yourself how easy it would be to understand the various Hasidic Jewish groups in Israel without speaking Hebrew and living among them, and you'll have your answer about understanding the more conservative groups among the Dutch Reformed -- and for many of the same reasons.

A church that emphasizes covenantal faithfulness over many generations, and has its own Christian schools, and successfully enforces a need to marry within one's own faith community, or by way of exception, an "uitlander" who has been willing to FULLY (not just nominally) join the covenant community, and become a 200-percenter advocate of its core distinctives -- well, let's just say there are both sociological and theological reasons why for many centuries Dutch Reformed people and Jewish people have gotten along better than almost any other religious group has gotten along with Jewish people. Obviously there is no shared faith in Christ, but a church that takes VERY seriously the Old Testament standards for business, personal and family life is going to develop some distinctives which will look a lot like the Old Testament people of God, and that's ESPECIALLY true in diaspora settings, such as the Dutch Reformed expatriate communities in the US and Canada. Let me be clear that I'm complimenting the Dutch here, not criticizing. Teaching children the importance not only of personal conversion but also hard work, raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, biblical standards for marriage and family, and a whole host of other things are good, not bad -- but also VERY different from much of modern American evangelicalism which is all about "me and Jesus" and not a covenantal community of faithfulness.

Now when I write these things, understand that I am myself an "uitlander." I grew up as an Italian in Grand Rapids. I was converted as a young adult, became Reformed by reading Calvin's Institutes, and then was confronted with a very real problem of "Where do I find a Reformed church that actually believes what this book teaches?" Not an easy thing to do in Grand Rapids in the 1980s. The churches that were open to outsiders like me were either running after Robert Schuller, or broad evangelicalism, or Barthianism, or outright liberalism. The churches that were confessionally Reformed were hard to find (remember, this was before the modern internet) and many were small and not interested in non-Dutch people. That's nothing like Grand Rapids today, but it is the community I grew up in and I know it well. I'm not being fair to Dutch conservatives today -- Dr. Beeke's own church, for example, has an ethnic Chinese congregation worshipping there -- but when I was converted, I had been walking past the Crescent Street NRC for years and I knew full well that non-Dutch people were not wanted. Dr. Beeke's predecessor was not Dr. Beeke, and it took many years for Dr. Beeke to make the church what it is today. I'm not going to name names, but I actually visited most of the main conservative non-CRC churches in Grand Rapids in the years before the secession began, and there are reasons why I did not join the CRC. I probably visited about a dozen or so churches that were known, in the 1980s, for being more conservative than the CRC, and what I saw then is not what I would see today. Most of those churches are either dead or a much better church than they used to be.

As one of my professors at Calvin said, "You can explain the Christian Reformed Church by sociology, not by theology." That isn't fully true of the more conservative bodies, but it's not wrong, either.

Hope this makes some sense. I think, honestly speaking, the parallel to what you see in ethnic Israel is going to make more sense to you than it will to most Protestants because you live in Israel, and again, understand I'm saying that as a compliment, not a criticism.
 
As a non-Dutch person who would likely only come across Dutch Reformed churches when traveling, I really appreciate this thread. I think there's much to learn and appreciate about the Dutch Reformed heritage, teachings, and practices, and I'm glad to know more of it.

Something else I'd add is that Darrell's post highlights the very different approaches Protestant churches have taken. Approach 1 would be the general American cultural impulse towards flattening denominational differences, and on the coercive side, the 1662 Act of Uniformity (contra the Puritans), and the 1817 creation of the combined Evangelical Church of Prussia (contra Confessional Lutherans). This approach looks at all that we have in common and says that in general that Christian doctrine that is heavily shared should lead to united churches, with distinctives being insufficient to divide over. The upside of this is that outsiders can be readily integrated while the downside is that doctrines that are actually important can get smoothed over, leaving vulnerabilities in the next generation to make even more doctrine optional. In our circles, the clearest example would be those who are completely baffled why the PCA and OPC don't just merge.

Approach 2 is what I call "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors." This means that one may well view the scope of Christians broadly but take a much more limited approach to unity and organizational cooperation. In America, you see this in its largest sphere in the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran church (and more conservative bodies) which will not (or at least should not) allow someone of non-Lutheran views on Communion to commune. Historically, both the Dutch and Lutherans had extensive Christian school networks and catechism programs to teach not just the broad stuff but the detail stuff as well to their younger believers and any converts. The downside of this of course can be inhospitality towards outsiders, including earnest converts willing to be 200% advocates such as Darrell himself. However, I would note from history that J. Gresham Machen received multiple letters of encouragement in the darkest hours of the Presbyterian controversy from the Missouri Synod and the Christian Reformed church was the first denomination to recognize the OPC.
 
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Oh boy, am I about to get myself into a wild mess here!



Basically all of the above! For better or worse, most but not all of the major Dutch Reformed secessions and denominational foundings were closely identified with key individuals. Ledeboer, Kuyper, Kersten, Hoeksema, Schilder, and Beeke all differ in many ways, but their denominations took on key aspects of their life and ministry. That is in some ways good and others not. It's not like the OPC where Machen was a huge influence but his death led to multiple splinterings, and the modern OPC has numerous sources of its key principles, or like the URC where there were easily a dozen key leaders of the secession, and then the people came in associated with Westminster Seminary in California who brought a different approach from that of the earlier seceders.

The Beeke situation is very complicated and anything I write is guaranteed to get pushback if I post it here because it needs to be twenty or fifty pages with a ton of footnotes to be complete, but this will likely be enough for your purposes. Suffice it to say that the two key underlying issues in the Beeke controversy were the free offer of the gospel and whether a minister with a legitimate biblical divorce can remarry and remain a minister. Officially, the NRC synod said "yes" to both. But a lot of people remained seriously unhappy and that put Beeke in the crosshairs. And yes, I say that with bias toward Beeke because I believe he was right, after reading huge amounts of stuff and probably digging into the case more than anyone who wasn't on the synodical investigative committee or Beeke's own consistory. I believe Beeke was abused and is a godly man who was patient beyond what anyone should have to tolerate. Others disagree, and that is what caused the division in the NRC.



The simple answer is I can send you to Google to look up GH Kersten and the Gereformeerde Gemeenten and his role as a member of the Dutch Parliament in attacking Abraham Kuyper's view on civil cooperation with Roman Catholics, and before that, to Mulder's timeline on how Kersten unified several "Dutch Puritan" groups into the Gereformeerde Gemeenten as a denomination. You'll get some formal answers. Also, a book of his Heidelberg Catechism sermons has been translated into English. That will give you a good sense of his theology of the need for a deep personal conviction of sin.

However, to TRULY understand the Dutch at a deep level, you must not only learn Dutch, but live among the Dutch, to know what "lives" in the churches. With the smaller denominations, there are not many (if any) books written in or translated into English and that's a real problem.

I have an undergraduate degree in theology from Calvin College. I spent three years at Calvin Seminary before dropping out, due largely to extreme frustration. I spent ten years of my life working for Christian Renewal magazine, which was at that time the main conservative news organization reporting on the CRC and the people seceding from it. During that period I reported not only on the CRC and RCA and the URC (as it developed) but also attended almost every OPC General Assembly and NAPARC meeting, and covered the NRC synod that deposed Dr. Beeke, and reported on the beginning of Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary.

Even all that is not really "enough" because I can't read Dutch and that cuts me off from key things I should know, and forces me to rely on secondary sources, with their inherent biases, rather than being able to read primary source documents.

Things are a little different now that the "older generation" has passed which was still fluent in Dutch and regularly read Dutch theology and maintained contact with immediate family in the Netherlands, but you'd have to actually live in Grand Rapids, or Northwest Iowa, or certain other key places, to really understand the culture.

You live in Israel. I assume you speak fluent Hebrew. Ask yourself how easy it would be to understand the various Hasidic Jewish groups in Israel without speaking Hebrew and living among them, and you'll have your answer about understanding the more conservative groups among the Dutch Reformed -- and for many of the same reasons.

A church that emphasizes covenantal faithfulness over many generations, and has its own Christian schools, and successfully enforces a need to marry within one's own faith community, or by way of exception, an "uitlander" who has been willing to FULLY (not just nominally) join the covenant community, and become a 200-percenter advocate of its core distinctives -- well, let's just say there are both sociological and theological reasons why for many centuries Dutch Reformed people and Jewish people have gotten along better than almost any other religious group has gotten along with Jewish people. Obviously there is no shared faith in Christ, but a church that takes VERY seriously the Old Testament standards for business, personal and family life is going to develop some distinctives which will look a lot like the Old Testament people of God, and that's ESPECIALLY true in diaspora settings, such as the Dutch Reformed expatriate communities in the US and Canada. Let me be clear that I'm complimenting the Dutch here, not criticizing. Teaching children the importance not only of personal conversion but also hard work, raising children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord, biblical standards for marriage and family, and a whole host of other things are good, not bad -- but also VERY different from much of modern American evangelicalism which is all about "me and Jesus" and not a covenantal community of faithfulness.

Now when I write these things, understand that I am myself an "uitlander." I grew up as an Italian in Grand Rapids. I was converted as a young adult, became Reformed by reading Calvin's Institutes, and then was confronted with a very real problem of "Where do I find a Reformed church that actually believes what this book teaches?" Not an easy thing to do in Grand Rapids in the 1980s. The churches that were open to outsiders like me were either running after Robert Schuller, or broad evangelicalism, or Barthianism, or outright liberalism. The churches that were confessionally Reformed were hard to find (remember, this was before the modern internet) and many were small and not interested in non-Dutch people. That's nothing like Grand Rapids today, but it is the community I grew up in and I know it well. I'm not being fair to Dutch conservatives today -- Dr. Beeke's own church, for example, has an ethnic Chinese congregation worshipping there -- but when I was converted, I had been walking past the Crescent Street NRC for years and I knew full well that non-Dutch people were not wanted. Dr. Beeke's predecessor was not Dr. Beeke, and it took many years for Dr. Beeke to make the church what it is today. I'm not going to name names, but I actually visited most of the main conservative non-CRC churches in Grand Rapids in the years before the secession began, and there are reasons why I did not join the CRC. I probably visited about a dozen or so churches that were known, in the 1980s, for being more conservative than the CRC, and what I saw then is not what I would see today. Most of those churches are either dead or a much better church than they used to be.

As one of my professors at Calvin said, "You can explain the Christian Reformed Church by sociology, not by theology." That isn't fully true of the more conservative bodies, but it's not wrong, either.

Hope this makes some sense. I think, honestly speaking, the parallel to what you see in ethnic Israel is going to make more sense to you than it will to most Protestants because you live in Israel, and again, understand I'm saying that as a compliment, not a criticism.
Hi Darrell, excellent analogy. To understand the Dutch, you almost have to be Dutch. My own wife and children do not completely understand the Dutch, as my wife is second generation...
 
Hi Darrell, excellent analogy. To understand the Dutch, you almost have to be Dutch. My own wife and children do not completely understand the Dutch, as my wife is second generation...

Spot on. (To use a Dutchism.) Or perhaps more correctly, a Canadianism adopted by the more recent Dutch immigrants who moved to Canada rather than the US following World War II because of tighter US immigration laws.

For Theoretical (Scott), Sam Jer, Heidelberger (Reece), and others reading -- full disclosure requires me to admit that I now have my own ethno-church issues. Many here know that my ancestry is from the Italian Alps, and this month, right in advance of my ARP church in Springfield being received into membership of the OPC, my membership was transferred into one of the last two Waldensian churches left in the United States. (Most died during and after World War II, thanks to a combination of anti-Italian animosity and the failure of churches and pastors to make the necessary transition to using English for the second generation.) This transfer had been expected for several years. My elders in Springfield knew that if the congregation, of which I am almost the longest-term attender, did vote to join the OPC, I would have no choice but to leave. A transfer back into the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference didn't make sense since the 4Cs have no churches in Missouri at all, and the most realistic option for a 4C church to hold my membership would have been in a different state over six hours away.

I've been in contact now for several years with representatives of the Waldensian Old Paths organization in the Italian Synod (comparable to the Gereformeerde Bond in the old Dutch state church), an organization which includes the equivalent to the Senate Majority Leader of the Italian Senate and a number of people who are working to promote use of the Genevan Psalter and the historic Waldensian confessions. The local Waldensian church in Missouri, while it is not where I would like it to be, is a success story of conservatives who fought against liberals, got rid of a liberal minister, and for the last half-decade or so have been moving in the right direction. I hope that local progress continues. Most of the issues in that local church are ones I would also face on a denominational level in the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, and unlike the 4Cs which have made a clear commitment to being broadly evangelical, the local Waldensian church is doing things like promoting books by Piper and other modern Reformed men, along with their own distinctively Waldensian heritage.

So I guess some would argue that I am returning to my own ethnic Italian roots, and that I have to stop making some of my Dutch jokes about the Dutch having an internal magnet in their blood that predestines them to be magnetically attracted to oliebollen and King peppermints. I guess my own internal magnet of attraction to Italy and the Alps took effect when the vote to join the OPC gave me no alternative to a transfer out.

Oh well... my Korean wife's pasta salad was a hit at the Waldensian church potluck last Lord's Day. She's probably the first Asian to ever be a Waldensian in 850 years of Waldensian history, but it's remotely possible there is some Italian Waldensian somewhere in Italy who, like me, decided a Korean was cute, or perhaps an Asian studying in Italy decided to become a Waldensian while living in Italy. As far as I can tell, nobody knows of there ever being any other Asian Waldensians from any Asian ethnicity at all, besides my wife. Maybe we'll end up in Rome or Florence or some other area with a lot of English-speaking and Korean-speaking expats and international students trying to start a tri-lingual church speaking English, Italian and Korean, with copies of the Genevan Psalter available for visitors from other countries in their own languages.

For those who will ask: No, I don't hate the OPC. I am a Congregationalist by conviction, a position that is well within the bounds of acceptable views in church polity in the Dutch Reformed world and which the ARP was willing to tolerate. (Not going to repeat details that are now irrelevant, but this went through all the proper channels of the ARP presbytery, and the decision was made to tolerate me, based on long-established precedents of Reformed Baptists being allowed to do all sorts of things in the ARP that many NAPARC denominations would not allow, and the recognition that tolerating Reformed Baptist views of church government necessarily meant tolerating the views on polity of a Reformed Congregationalist who affirms infant baptism but disagrees with Presbyterian polity.) The OPC, quite correctly, will not and should not do that. I attended almost every general assembly of the OPC during the 1990s and almost every NAPARC meeting, along with more OPC presbytery meetings than I can count, and I attended two different OPCs, one in New Mexico and one in Texas, when I lived in an area where those were the only Reformed options that would accept my infant baptism. I never joined either of those two local OPC churches.

I have a lot of respect for the OPC, but I have fundamental disagreements on church polity and do not belong there.

As a non-Dutch person who would likely only come across Dutch Reformed churches when traveling, I really appreciate this thread. I think there's much to learn and appreciate about the Dutch Reformed heritage, teachings, and practices, and I'm glad to know more of it.

Why is that? Is there anywhere where I can read about this man without having to learn Dutch first?

Two courses are offered on the history and theology of the 1834 Secession. This past summer a new elective course was offered on "covenantal Preaching in the Dutch Secession Tradition" which covered the three covenant view in-depth with particular application to homiletics.
 
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Hi Darrell, excellent analogy. To understand the Dutch, you almost have to be Dutch. My own wife and children do not completely understand the Dutch, as my wife is second generation...

Dutch pills help with that condition. They come in two forms... King and Wilhelmina.

Side effect: they sometimes give growth spurts and turn hair blonde.

Just kidding.... the side effects didn't work with me. Still 5'4" and black hair, and like spaghetti more than oliebollen.
 
What Theoretical said is ABSOLUTELY correct. Ethnic denominations are, well... ethnic.

But the doctrine issue and how it affects separation is key as well, as he said here:

"The downside of this of course can be inhospitality towards outsiders, including earnest converts willing to be 200% advocates such as Darrell himself. However, I would note from history that J. Gresham Machen received multiple letters of encouragement in the darkest hours of the Presbyterian controversy from the Missouri Synod and the Christian Reformed church was the first denomination to recognize the OPC."

An approach of "Good fences make good neighbors" allows Reformed Baptists and paedobaptists to cooperate here on the Puritan Board even though we can't (usually) be members of each other's churches. It led to Dr. Joel Beeke preaching at John MacArthur's church. UTTERLY INCONCEIVABLE in the Gereformeerde Gemeenten background from which Beeke's former denomination came, but as I have said to Beeke repeatedly in private correspondence to encourage him, that is EXACTLY what the Puritans did with John Owen working to get Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progess" published and to get Bunyan out of prison.

Keeping our eye on the primaries while not downplaying the secondaries, or acting like they don't count or don't exist, is the key to legitimate Reformed (and Christian) cooperation. The forced unity of the Prussian Union model, or the "who cares, let's get along" model of mainline Protestant liberalism of the 1800s and most of the 1900s, both have less REAL cooperation than recognizing that confessional brothers disagree, but there are things on which we can and should work together, and others on which we cannot and should not.





As a non-Dutch person who would likely only come across Dutch Reformed churches when traveling, I really appreciate this thread. I think there's much to learn and appreciate about the Dutch Reformed heritage, teachings, and practices, and I'm glad to know more of it.

Something else I'd add is that Darrell's post highlights the very different approaches Protestant churches have taken. Approach 1 would be the general American cultural impulse towards flattening denominational differences, and on the coercive side, the 1662 Act of Uniformity (contra the Puritans), and the 1817 creation of the combined Evangelical Church of Prussia (contra Confessional Lutherans). This approach looks at all that we have in common and says that in general that Christian doctrine that is heavily shared should lead to united churches, with distinctives being insufficient to divide over. The upside of this is that outsiders can be readily integrated while the downside is that doctrines that are actually important can get smoothed over, leaving vulnerabilities in the next generation to make even more doctrine optional. In our circles, the clearest example would be those who are completely baffled why the PCA and OPC don't just merge.

Approach 2 is what I call "Good Fences Make Good Neighbors." This means that one may well view the scope of Christians broadly but take a much more limited approach to unity and organizational cooperation. In America, you see this in its largest sphere in the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran church (and more conservative bodies) which will not (or at least should not) allow someone of non-Lutheran views on Communion to commune. Historically, both the Dutch and Lutherans had extensive Christian school networks and catechism programs to teach not just the broad stuff but the detail stuff as well to their younger believers and any converts. The downside of this of course can be inhospitality towards outsiders, including earnest converts willing to be 200% advocates such as Darrell himself. However, I would note from history that J. Gresham Machen received multiple letters of encouragement in the darkest hours of the Presbyterian controversy from the Missouri Synod and the Christian Reformed church was the first denomination to recognize the OPC.
 
Dutch pills help with that condition. They come in two forms... King and Wilhelmina.

Side effect: they sometimes give growth spurts and turn hair blonde.

Just kidding.... the side effects didn't work with me. Still 5'4" and black hair, and like spaghetti more than oliebollen.
My Dutch pills are the black variety... aka dropjes
 
An approach of "Good fences make good neighbors" allows Reformed Baptists and paedobaptists to cooperate here on the Puritan Board even though we can't (usually) be members of each other's churches. It led to Dr. Joel Beeke preaching at John MacArthur's church. UTTERLY INCONCEIVABLE in the Gereformeerde Gemeenten background from which Beeke's former denomination came, but as I have said to Beeke repeatedly in private correspondence to encourage him, that is EXACTLY what the Puritans did with John Owen working to get Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progess" published and to get Bunyan out of prison
I appreciate the broader point you are making Darrell, but I don't think this analogy is the best. Owen and Bunyan embraced important reformed doctrines such as covenant theology and the perpetuity of the moral law. MacArthur does not.

The WCF, the Savoy Declaration, and the 1689 Confession are confessionally Reformed documents. Eg both the Savoy and the 1689 Confession agree with the WCF 7:1, and have other weighty agreements. MacArthur does not subscribe to a Reformed confession.

I do believe Joel Beeke is doing an important work in building bridges with Calvinistic Dispensationalists. However the danger is that some Puritan Theology may not be emphasised to avoid causing offense to Calvinistic Dispensationalists.
 
However the danger is that some Puritan Theology may not be emphasised to avoid causing offense to Calvinistic Dispensationalists
You can seperate almost endlessly with that argument. "The danger is that some Puritan Theology (eg civil magistrate, psalms) may not be emphasized to avoid causing offence to the PCA". "The danger is that some Puritan Theology (eg eschatology, deaconesses) may not be emphasized to avoid causing offence to the RPCNA". And etc.
 
I appreciate the broader point you are making Darrell, but I don't think this analogy is the best. Owen and Bunyan embraced important reformed doctrines such as covenant theology and the perpetuity of the moral law. MacArthur does not.

The WCF, the Savoy Declaration, and the 1689 Confession are confessionally Reformed documents. Eg both the Savoy and the 1689 Confession agree with the WCF 7:1, and have other weighty agreements. MacArthur does not subscribe to a Reformed confession.

I do believe Joel Beeke is doing an important work in building bridges with Calvinistic Dispensationalists. However the danger is that some Puritan Theology may not be emphasised to avoid causing offense to Calvinistic Dispensationalists.

We're more in agreement than disagreement if you concur that "the WCF, the Savoy Declaration, and the 1689 Confession are confessionally Reformed documents." I'm used to people who argue along your lines saying that Reformed Baptists are not Reformed, and a significant number would also say that "Five Points are not enough" to argue that Presbyterian polity is of the essence of the Reformed faith. My response is to say that if people define being Reformed so narrowly as to exclude much of Puritanism, they are too narrow.

I do agree that dispensationalism is outside the bounds of confessionally Reformed theology. If this were the 1940s and 1950s in Southern Presbyterianism when the liberals were playing a divide-and-conquer game to split traditional Calvinists from the people at Dallas Theological Seminary -- originally founded as a Presbyterian institution in the days when dispensationalism and pre-millennialism were seriously advocated in both the Northern and Southern churches -- I would hold my nose and vote in favor of dispensationalists who were being targeted by liberals because their real target was inerrancy and a high view of Scripture, not the dispensational errors on how to interpret Scripture.

But apart from that context, I can't see myself giving support to dispensationalists in any Reformed denominational context that subscribes to confessions.

Outside that context? Of course I'll work with MacArthur people even if I can't join their churches and they can't join mine. They agree with me on nearly every major issue on which I have to argue with my Bible Belt friends over sovereign grace, and they agree with me on all major issues on which I have to fight with liberals over the authority of God's Word.
 
We're more in agreement than disagreement if you concur that "the WCF, the Savoy Declaration, and the 1689 Confession are confessionally Reformed documents."
Yes, we have weighty agreement here.
Outside that context? Of course I'll work with MacArthur people even if I can't join their churches and they can't join mine. They agree with me on nearly every major issue on which I have to argue with my Bible Belt friends over sovereign grace
In a small country like New Zealand, we do not have the luxury of large Reformed Denominations. Therefore we have to work within confessional limits, but at the same time recognise friends who agree with us on other major issues, as you correctly note. We can work together on some of the moral issues facing this country. New Zealand has one of the most evil abortion laws in the world. We can unite with our Calvinistic Dispensationalists friends opposing these evils because they also look at moral issues from a Calvinistic perspective.

You can seperate almost endlessly with that argument
Brother I don't think you grasped my point. I said:
The WCF, the Savoy Declaration, and the 1689 Confession are confessionally Reformed documents. Eg both the Savoy and the 1689 Confession agree with the WCF 7:1, and have other weighty agreements
I deliberately recognised theological diversity within the Reformed tradition yet at the same time arguing that that diversity has limits.
 
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