Faithful Lutheran Bodies???????

[Jon Lake]

I was curious, I know that (sadly) a number of Lutheran Churches in the US are flat out Liberal. I know there are some we would not "truly" call Liberal but they moved from Luther's teachings to an Arminian position. I am not an expert on the Lutheran Church, lots of German Lutheran's in areas of West Texas, not many here, I wondered if any groups or branches still had conservative Reformed leanings? (Feel free to move this into another forum, I looked around and could not find one that seemed to fit.)

 

[Jon Lake]

*To Clarify this a Bit more, the ONLY Lutheran Bodies around here are Missouri Synod (Which I understand as not being "Liberal" but not being true to Luther's teachings in that they are Arminian to a greater or lesser extent, and of course our friends in Evangelical Synod (LIBERAL). Like I say, some of you in certain States may think this a silly question, however, as I stated (and my fellow Texans can back me up here) you find a of of Lutheran and German communities if you head west, towards the "Hill-Country" Kerville and other areas. Like I say I know there ARE more Lutheran Bodies than the Missouri and Evangelical, just curious if anyone knew if any were faithful still to the vision of Luther.

-----Added 2/10/2009 at 08:20:50 EST-----

Just ONE more clarification (SORRY), as I look I notice a number of good Lutherans from outside the US, in order to be clear and not offend these dear brethren I am really dealing with Lutherans in the States!

 

[jawyman]

There is no such thing as a "Reformed" Lutheran church. I grew up Lutheran and I can tell you to stay as far away from ELCA. Missouri is middle of the road, but leaning more and more left. There is the Synod of which I used to belong and that is WELS or Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, but if you hold to TULIP, I doubt you would be welcomed. TULIP and true Lutheran doctrine do not mesh. There is also a smaller church body known as ELS which is the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and they are a sister synod of the WELS. The primary difference is heritage...WELS=German; ELS=Norwegian.

 

[Pilgrim]

Jeff is correct that TULIP and Lutheranism don't play well together although in general I think confessional Lutherans probably have a higher view of God's sovereignty than the average evangelical might. In that sense there is no "Reformed" Lutheran church, whereas in Anglicanism any position from TULIP to 5 point Arminianism is basically acceptable.

My understanding is that like the Southern Baptist Convention, the LCMS is sort of a mixed bag of confessionalists, pragmatists, etc. Both of them were on a slippery slope toward outright liberalism several decades ago but changed course about 30 years ago, upholding the authority of the Bible and regaining control of the seminaries, in dramatic fashion in some instances. This is something that no other denomination of comparable size and significance has been able to pull off. (In other cases, "conservatives" in denominations like the CRC and old PCUS had to leave to form "continuing" churches like the PCA, URCNA, etc.) With LCMS then there is going to be some variation from congregation to congregation. I'm of course much more familiar with the SBC, (and let's not debate it in this thread on Lutheranism) but as Jeff noted, some now perceive a leftward direction in the LCMS.

I think by far the largest Lutheran bodies are ELCA (the mainliners), LCMS and WELS. The latter two denominations have rather helpful websites that go into some detail explaining their views and differences with each other.

 

[ww]

The Largest is the ELCA but permit Women's Ordination and have other issues, the LCMS is conservative and has many confessional men but there is a power struggle with the church growth folks especially at the Executive Leadership level and then WELS would be the most conservative, traditional Lutheran Church. Lutheran Theology teaches that the Will is Bound and only God initates Faith so is monergistic in that sense, believe in Total Depravity and Unconditional Election minus the reprobation part but embrace Unlimited Atonement, Resistable Grace, and Elect Persevere but there are those who truly believe and possess Saving Faith who lose it and are eternally condemned.

 

[cih1355]

I have heard that the LCMS and the WELS are the Lutheran demoninations that are the most faithful to the word of God. They are not Reformed churches.

 

[jawyman]

I do not wish for my answer to sound tainted, because of my past membership in the WELS, but WELS is the most scriptural. LCMS is a good church, but there is a lot of disunity regarding the roles of women and especially in the practice of closed communion. If you are not a WELSer or an ELSer, you are not receiving communion.

There are a lot of fellowship issues within the WELS. The WELS position is that if a person does not agree 100 per cent on all points of faith and doctrine; you are not in fellowship with WELS and you would need to be catechised.

Believe me when I say I praise and thank God daily for leading out of the Lutheran church and into the Reformed faith. As my signature says, I am preparing for ministry in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church.