Gary DeMar affirms future return

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DanSSwing

DanSSwing

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Gary DeMar just affirmed a future return of Christ in an interview on today's "Steve Deace Show." It's about 50 minutes into the show. No exact time stamp available since the show is still live.
 
I hope I never reach the point where someone considers it worth posting on PB that I've affirmed one of the articles of the Apostle's Creed...
 
Did he say it was bodily? That's the deal with Demar. You have to make him clarify. It's pretty embarrassing that a public teacher has to clarify, and that under extreme pressure, whether he believes in the future bodily return of Christ. When someone has been asked for four years whether he affirms the second coming, and only now can he answer that he does, that is a problem.
 
iainduguid said:
I hope I never reach the point where someone considers it worth posting on PB that I've affirmed one of the articles of the Apostle's Creed...
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Ideally, I could have just posted to last year's DeMar thread rather than having to create a brand new one. It's just an update. I don't intend to rehash the original discussion. Anyway, he's now 2 out of 3.
 
DanSSwing said:
Ideally, I could have just posted to last year's DeMar thread rather than having to create a brand new one. It's just an update. I don't intend to rehash the original discussion. Anyway, he's now 2 out of 3.
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Can you give a timestamp now? I tried to find it, but couldn't. However, when he was discussing the views of the millennium, he pointed out that some hold that it refers to AD 30-70, and some some believe that it is another term for the Day of the Lord. He seemed to studiously avoid telling his view.
 
TylerRay said:
Can you give a timestamp now? I tried to find it, but couldn't. However, when he was discussing the views of the millennium, he pointed out that some hold that it refers to AD 30-70, and some some believe that it is another term for the Day of the Lord. He seemed to studiously avoid telling his view.
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Earlier in the show, he said he believes Psalm 110:1-2 is currently being fulfilled, which is very hard to reconcile with the AD 30-70 millennium view.
 
DanSSwing said:
Earlier in the show, he said he believes Psalm 110:1-2 is currently being fulfilled, which is very hard to reconcile with the AD 30-70 millennium view.
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It's still short of affirming the bodily return of Christ and the bodily, general resurrection of the dead. Those are the articles of faith he refuses to affirm.
 
Reading the comments on the video, it looks like the audience is pretty unfamiliar with these discussions. That said, Demar's preterism raised some legitimate questions:

"My question is, is there any Bible texts that you and Gary believe, refer to the literal second advent of Christ? What are they, and why are they distinguished from the texts referring to the 70AD destruction of the Temple? Another podcast at least. But this help a great deal, and save the hope of many of us. It deserves focus."
 
TylerRay said:
It's still short of affirming the bodily return of Christ and the bodily, general resurrection of the dead. Those are the articles of faith he refuses to affirm.
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He affirmed #1 elsewhere in the show. I've heard there's some way to search the YT script, but I don't know how.
 
DanSSwing said:
Found it = 44:30.
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Ok, I just listened. He was asked point blank about what must happen before Christ returns. His answer contained no affirmation that Christ will return, only an affirmation that he will reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet, and a description of what he thinks that reign looks like.
 
RamistThomist said:
I heard a lot about transforming the world, before Christ returns, but nothing about the nature of his return
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This criticism strikes me as an extreme level of nitpicking. He directly answered a question in an interview, and he did so in a fully orthodox way. He wasn't responding to the tribunal. Jesus is coming back. That's obviously bodily. It didn't have to be added to his response. Text below:


let's close with this

44:30

Gary I've got about two and a half minutes for you to answer this question what do you based on your best

44:38

understanding of the Bible what do you believe has to happen for Christ to

44:44

return oh wow well I guess one scripture passage he must Reign until he puts all

44:50

of his enemies under his feet uh of course I believe Jesus is reigning now I

44:55

believe uh heaven Heaven is his throne the Earth is his foot stol he has called

45:00

on his on his believing Church the community of Believers to make

45:06

application of the Bible to every area of Life uh I I believe that one day the

45:12

gospel will will permeate the world you will see people from all different nations around the world embracing Jesus

45:19

as the promised Messiah I think that's happening in many in in many areas of the world right now even among the the

45:25

Muslim world I believe there's still a great deal of persecution going on in the world like we have in Nigeria uh

45:31

again I just think that Christ I think once Christians once Christians throw off this the the the Garment of

45:39

eschatological prognostication that it will transform their lives and I've run into

45:45

people this is real real short you know you may know who Kirk Cameron is Kirk

45:50

camon was in the Left Behind movies he watched a video series that I did a number of years ago and he he will tell

45:57

you that it transformed his life uh beyond measure and what is Kirk Cameron doing today he's taking on he's taking

46:05

on the leftist establishment all across the country because and he also did a

46:11

film called Monumental if if that happen think about this if Christians finally get on and say let's lay off this old

46:17

garment and put on a new garment I think we could TR transform the world what's fascinating too is that uh Kirk um who

46:26

endorsed my 2 16 book and nefarious plot that we turned into a movie last year but but Kirk is doing a Regular Show on

46:33

TBN so that's what's F I mean that that is you know one of the leading expositors of uh premillennial

46:40

dispensational thought and eschatology and and all of American Media and Christendom so you're right I hope I

46:47

don't get him in trouble hope iant in trouble you brought him out of the closet maybe Gary well next week

46:53

Kirk used to do a show on TBN until Gary opened his mouth Yes appreciate that um

46:59

so so is it suffice to say you don't believe that Jesus is Daddy coming back

47:07

to clean up this massive mess that is beyond our our uh scope but is coming

47:14

back to confirm Victory uh not to actually enact it is that is that fair

47:21

yes yes that's that's my that's the simplest I could put it you could you put it better than I could yes

47:28
 
The fact is that the entire Reformed world, including his former friends and colleagues, believe he has denied the faith on these points. A vague reference to Ps 110 is not sufficient to vindicate him after all he's done to discredit himself. He has been given ample room to make some basic affirmations and clarifications, and his responses are all obfuscation and circumlocution.
 
DanSSwing said:
Ideally, I could have just posted to last year's DeMar thread rather than having to create a brand new one. It's just an update. I don't intend to rehash the original discussion. Anyway, he's now 2 out of 3.
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Meatloaf theology?
 
TylerRay said:
Ok, I just listened. He was asked point blank about what must happen before Christ returns. His answer contained no affirmation that Christ will return, only an affirmation that he will reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet, and a description of what he thinks that reign looks like.
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It really sounds like you just hate Gary DeMar.

Deace: "Suffice to say you don't believe that Jesus is Daddy coming back to clean up this massive mess that is beyond our scope, but is coming back to confirm victory, not to actually enact it. Is tthat fair?

DeMar: "Yes, yes. That's the simplest I could put it. You put it better than I could. Yes."
 
DanSSwing said:
Maybe people here would give DeMar more grace if I were to point out that Doug Wilson disagrees with him...
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Brother, accusing people who are concerned about DeMar's lack of clarity on key doctrines, and his fraternizing with people who outright deny those doctrines, of being hateful and ungracious is not helpful to the discussion. People who have every reason to favor DeMar are some of his greatest critics on these points. I'm thinking of men like Ken Gentry and Andrew Sandlin. I think you should consider whether your biases are skewing your judgment. After all, can you name any Reformed ministers or theologians who think he's orthodox?
 
DanSSwing said:
Maybe people here would give DeMar more grace if I were to point out that Doug Wilson disagrees with him...
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I’ve been reading Gary for 20 years. We saw this coming in 2020. No one hates him. We’re just troubled he can’t affirm a physical return and resurrection
 
Here's DeMar speaking clearly about his views:
"Oh no! Some Christians believe they get a new body after they die rather than maybe tens of thousands of years in the future! It's what I've heard pastors say at funerals, three of them in the past year. I guess we're all going to hell. Show me a verse that says when you die your spirit goes to heaven and at the Second Coming God will reconstitute your body that most likely no longer exists and join it with your disembodied spirit. That's so depressing. Really? Seems like being disembodied for maybe thousands of years would be depressing. You must mean a Third Coming. Wasn't the coming of Jesus in AD 70 a coming, what Heb. 9:28 describes as a "second time"? Gentry et al. say it was. The Nicene Creed and the WCF make no mention of these distinct comings."

Source: https://pandrewsandlin.substack.com/p/gary-demars-heretical-eschatology

@DanSSwing
 
DeMar doesn't mind disagreeing with the ecumenical creeds:

"It’s been a busy year. As many of you may know, I and American Vision have been attacked by some high-profile Christians because I have asked some necessary questions concerning eschatology. Some of the attacks have been vicious, mean spirited, and downright ugly. The questions I am asking have been designed to construct a better understanding of the topic. Many Christians are afraid to make a study of the topic because of Creedal and Confessional statements that are often regarded as equal to Scripture. They believe that what’s been said and stated on the topic has settled the topic. There’s nothing more to discuss. Anyone who has studied eschatology knows that eschatology is all over the map. It’s been this way for centuries."
source: https://americanvision.org/posts/update-and-upcoming-american-vision-projects/


On the other hand, he doesn't seem to think hyper-preterists (he prefers the term "consistent preterists") are out of step with the Apostles' Creed:

"If the Apostles’ Creed is a statement of what the Apostles believed; and if the Apostles’ Creed teaches that Jesus will “come again to judge the quick and the dead”; and if the Apostles stated this belief prior to the parousia coming of Christ in AD 70, then how can a consistent preterist be out of accord with the Apostles’ Creed?"
source: https://americanvision.org/posts/what-gary-demar-believed-and-argued-25-years-ago/
 
Seems odd and unfortunate to have to look deep in the bowels of some obscure podcast show (seriously, I've NEVER heard of this podcast. Silly me.) to hear a statement that, I guess, the particular clause in question is ok... but to then use it like its great vindication of his soundness.... that's weird. And makes it even more apparent that defenders really are grasping at straws.

This is so basic. That he has to tap dance and shuck and jive is itself indicative.
 
DanSSwing said:
It really sounds like you just hate Gary DeMar.
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I find this quite perplexing on your part, Dan, not Tyler Ray's, who only upholds orthodoxy in this discussion.

The same is true about your retorts to others. What brief do you hold for Mr. DeMar?

I don't understand why you posted this and are defending DeMar while attacking others here who rightly point out that this video does not vindicate his unorthodox views.

You seem almost belligerent here. Why? What's going on?

Peace,
Alan
 
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