Help with a conflict

[Christian Soldier]

Question: If a Christian decides to exercise their liberty and take part in activities that are not necessarily sinful but their openness about it is starting to offend other Christians who have different convictions, what might be done to resolve this?

 

[ewenlin]

I think it wise the christian refrain from said activities or at least cease in his openness. It is the spirit of 1 Cor. 8

 

[Andres]

Question: If a Christian decides to exercise their liberty and take part in activities that are not necessarily sinful but their openness about it is starting to offend other Christians who have different convictions, what might be done to resolve this?

1) quit partaking in aforementioned activities
or
2) take part in activities only when not around Christians who will be offended
or
3) using scripture, explain why activities are not sinful

While I tend to lean toward #1, perhaps a combination of the three might be best?

 

[Scott1]

Westminster Larger Catechism

Q. 151. What are those aggravations that make some sins more heinous than others?
A. Sins receive their aggravations,

1. From the persons offending[922] if they be of riper age,[923] greater experience or grace,[924] eminent for profession,[925] gifts,[926] place,[927] office,[928] guides to others,[929] and whose example is likely to be followed by others.[930]

2. From the parties offended:[931] if immediately against God,[932] his attributes,[933] and worship;[934] against Christ, and his grace;[935] the Holy Spirit,[936] his witness,[937] and workings[938] against superiors, men of eminency,[939] and such as we stand especially related and engaged unto;[940] against any of the saints,[941] particularly weak brethren,[942] the souls of them, or any other,[943] and the common good of all or many.[944]

Scripture proofs

[942] 1 Corinthians 8:11-12. And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Romans 14:13, 15, 21. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.... But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.... It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

Go to them privately and engage them on this... trust God for the results.

 

[MMasztal]

Some clarification might be in order. You said the activities weren't sinful, but might offend other Christians with different convictions. To me, that smacks of legalism. What are the activities? Card playing, dancing, going to movies? These aren't sinful, but to a legalistic fundie, they are offensive.

Maybe the problem lies with those having delicate sensibilities.

 

[Jack K]

Assuming the behavior is, as you say, not sinful...

Paul's instruction in Romans 14 is to avoid causing a brother to stumble. This is to say, your exercise of Christian freedom should not cause him to follow you and thus violate his conscience. This does not mean we should never offend a brother, only watch lovingly that he does not stumble.

I think sometimes we give in to legalism and do damage to Gospel freedom by thinking that our freedom may never offend the self-righteous. This is not what Paul says. He says to act out of love and concern for your brother, which is different from never offending him.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Some clarification might be in order. You said the activities weren't sinful, but might offend other Christians with different convictions. To me, that smacks of legalism. What are the activities? Card playing, dancing, going to movies? These aren't sinful, but to a legalistic fundie, they are offensive.

Maybe the problem lies with those having delicate sensibilities.

I am leaning toward the legalism as well. The activities involve moderate alcohol use, and playing poker. (at home with family, little or no money involved) I do believe the liberty has been flaunted a bit, which I would like to see stop, but I don't believe he should be asked to totally abstain from his activities.

I actually ran into a similar situation recently for allowing my wife to dress up our two year old son as a fireman on Halloween. Where does it end? If I simply stop doing everything that could possibly offend other Christians, It seems I'll eventually end up churning my own butter and taking a horse drawn buggy to work.

Thanks for all the replies!

 

[Archlute]

I wouldn't lump together drinking, poker, and Halloween in the same camp as living like the Amish. There is legitimate debate about the place of those things in the Christian life, and it does not revolve around being a fundamentalist, as is often charged. It has much more to do with the Christian disciple's good use of time and other issues.

Reformed folk can get pretty loose with their ideas of Christian liberty at times, and in a way that many in the early church (if you look at their canons for discipline) would find alien to a vibrant Christian profession. I'm not saying that you should give any of those practices up (although I have never had much sympathy toward some of my Reformed friends who have tried to justify actual gambling as somehow being within the bounds of Christian liberty), but there are good reasons for at least questioning the regular engagement in some of them. I personally think there are much better things a Christian could be doing, especially if he is a minister/elder, or aspires to be one, than puffing cheap cigars and playing cards every Friday evening as some of my seminary friends did. Issues of stewardship and wisdom are involved, not just liberty.

-----Added 11/12/2009 at 01:21:24 EST-----

 

[Zenas]

I have a friend who does not believe drinking is right. I disagree. I still drink, and he knows this. I don't tell him about my drinking, I rarely have had a drink in front of him or his family. In this way, I think I am fulfilling my duty not to cause him to stumble.

 

[carlgobelman]

In the Christian freedom passages, the 'weaker' brother is considered 'weaker' because he/she is ignorant of their freedom in Christ. One cannot take a personal conviction and claim being the 'weaker' brother in order to impinge on another's freedom in Christ (I am speaking in general, not in particular regarding the specifics of moderate alcohol use and card playing).

I have heard of too many instances where people try to impose their own preferences/practices within the bounds of the weaker/stronger Christian argument.

 

[Tripel]

Paul's instruction in Romans 14 is to avoid causing a brother to stumble. This is to say, your exercise of Christian freedom should not cause him to follow you and thus violate his conscience. This does not mean we should never offend a brother, only watch lovingly that he does not stumble.

Very well said. Many Christians equate "causing a brother to stumble" with offending him.

 

[captivewill]

Question: If a Christian decides to exercise their liberty and take part in activities that are not necessarily sinful but their openness about it is starting to offend other Christians who have different convictions, what might be done to resolve this?

There are things of which Paul says we are to have those liberties or freedoms between ourselves and God. Unnecessary divisiveness should be avoided without compromising truth. People of weak conscience are admitted to fellowship but NOT to doubtfull disputation. Come to Nigeria and deal with polygamy for a real tussle !

 

[Christian Soldier]

[/quote]There are things of which Paul says we are to have those liberties or freedoms between ourselves and God. Unnecessary divisiveness should be avoided without compromising truth. People of weak conscience are admitted to fellowship but NOT to doubtfull disputation. Come to Nigeria and deal with polygamy for a real tussle ![/QUOTE]

Nigeria could actually be a real possibility in the future. My father-in-law goes there each year to preach and teach in a pastors school. I hope to go with him the next time he goes. I've heard of the polygamy problem.

My biggest problem with this issue probably stems from the fact I came out of fundyism and I have seen people get bent out of shape over all kinds of things. Women wearing makeup, men wearing necklaces, watching TV, I have even heard of parents being rebuked for letting their teenage children work in a grocery store because beer was sold there. I do understand some have legitimate concerns when it comes to alcohol, cards, and Halloween so my statement about living like the Amish was not meant to lump them together but to provoke thought. How much liberty are we to give up in order to appease everyone? Especially considering it seems some folks in some circles will not be pleased until all Christians in all places have given up all of their liberty. I believe some things should be left up to individuals and their conscience.

Thanks again for the responses you all have been quite helpful.

 

[Scott1]

One thing also that might help in evaluating this is knowing that we are commanded to avoid even the appearance of sin.

1 Thessalonians 5:22

22Abstain from all appearance of evil.

We reformed understand that wine, for example, in itself, is not an evil thing. It is something God created that could be good and be received with thanksgiving. However, that's not the whole story- it's consumption is subject to many qualifications (e.g. obeying underage drinking law, not driving even after moderate amounts, etc.). We are not to drink to get even a stepped-down form of drunkenness.

Gambling though- I'm not sure gambling (for money) can ever be considered a good thing which God has created to be received with thanksgiving.

In the town I live in, gambling is illegal, even between private parties, though not a priority of law enforcement. But still, gambling for anything of value (unless exempted by statute) is, technically, at least, illegal.

I was actually in a situation like this very recently- as the night progressed, more people appeared and the drinking increased as did the gambling. The police came by, and basically informally warned the owner- gambling is a crime, but as long as things did not "get out of hand" and the owner remained in control, they would not intervene. Interestingly, very late a completely intoxicated person crawled into his car and, disoriented, drove in front of us, many people laughing, only a couple concerned enough to suggest calling police.

Maybe I know too much Scripture- but was thinking a sixth commandment violation (see Westminster Larger Catechism) and a failure of others to "love their neighbor as thyself".